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DMT Fumarate Vape

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YouAreAmazing

Rising Star
Greetings, :)

I've done some research and found that DMT is more stable at room temperature as a fumarate salt. I've also been interested in vaping DMT via propylene glycol.
Which has led me to the following questions:
Is propylene glycol DMT chemically stable?
If not, can this be changed by adding fumaric acid into the mix?
If so, is it safe?

Thanks, that is all.
 
Combustion of fumaric acid can generate maleic anhydride which is corrosive, irritant, etc. Dont risk your health. Plus, vapping alkaloids in salt form is generally less effective (or totally innefective) as compared to freebase.

DMT freebase seems to dissolve in PG but Im not sure how stable it is in freebase form when dissolved.

I havent used such smoking methods like the e-cigs or other type of atomizers but if you search the forum there are many threads about it where people talk about their experience.

Good luck.
 
endlessness said:
DMT freebase seems to dissolve in PG but Im not sure how stable it is in freebase form when dissolved.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by stable? as in it will oxidise? I've had dmt stored in pg/vg for months with no loss of potency... as for whether im just smoking dmt-n-oxide well im not sure, i havnt ever smoked only oxides but have heard they are a bit less clear and pure in characteristic effects.
 
endlessness said:
Combustion of fumaric acid can generate maleic anhydride which is corrosive, irritant, etc. Dont risk your health. Plus, vapping alkaloids in salt form is generally less effective (or totally innefective) as compared to freebase.

DMT freebase seems to dissolve in PG but Im not sure how stable it is in freebase form when dissolved.

I havent used such smoking methods like the e-cigs or other type of atomizers but if you search the forum there are many threads about it where people talk about their experience.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

It isn't combustion with e-juices though. It is vaporization at temperatures of ~200C. As I understand it, tiny small dropplets in the vapor carry the drug. I think fumaric acid does not decompose until 300C, so very little will decompose (if any).

The company JUUL found that nicotine salts absorb well in the lungs, surprisingly even better than free base nicotine. The pH is lowered to near neutral and the vapor is reportedly smoother.

Question is what DMT salts are soluble in PG? Will the organic acid break down while vaping into anything dangerous?

I've tested DMT benzoate (not soluble in PG) and DMT citrate (soluble in PG). The ratio I used is PG:DMT:Citric acid of 1:0.5:0.2 ratios. Citric acid is not as heat stable (175C) as fumaric (300C), so maybe I didn't choose the best acid for heat stability. However, there are a citric acid e-juice products commericaly available, while I could not find any fumaric acid products. I chose to use myself the more tested acid vs. an untested that is only theoretically better from what I found.

Of course commercial stuff does not guarantee safety and the citric concentrations are lower in typical use. However, they have been around for several years with people smoking them with some regularity and not having issues. For me, that was good enough to test and I enjoyed vaping DMT citrate. However, there is a risk and everyone should make their own decision (not gonna claim it is safe, just stating what I know and what my experience has been so far). I plan to cautiously continue testing. Not like I'm gonna chain vape DMT citrate, a couple good puffs is plenty 😅

Cheers.
 
Emptiness said:
endlessness said:
DMT freebase seems to dissolve in PG but Im not sure how stable it is in freebase form when dissolved.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by stable? as in it will oxidise? I've had dmt stored in pg/vg for months with no loss of potency... as for whether im just smoking dmt-n-oxide well im not sure, i havnt ever smoked only oxides but have heard they are a bit less clear and pure in characteristic effects.
Click to expand...

My stored DMT FB in e-juice changes color to a dark red and seems to loose potency (subjectively measured). If color is due to DMT aggregation/polymerization the loss in potency could be very variable between devices (hotter devices may be less sensitive to this).
 
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