DMT & The Serotonergic System

[oldsoul]

I'm looking for the effects that DMT has on the serotonergic system, when used more than occasionally. I'm wondering what the risk of imbalancing/disrupting natural brain chemistry is, and whether one builds up a tolerance over time.

With other entheogens one can feel "drained" from the serotonin depletion afterwards, and some people use 5HTP to remedy that, but from DMT, I have not noticed any ill effects at all. In fact, when it wears off, I feel more embodied than usual in a way, if that makes sense.

I have only tried a few times so far, but now that I've done an extract, I figured I better look into this. Seems like we have a lot of scientists here who could give good input. Thanks, I'm looking forward to it!

 

[lm2012]

I didnt think DMT had that much an effect on the serotonergic systems, particularly the releasing mechanisms... although it does bind to serotonin receptors I believe.

It feels very natural and never has any nasty after-effects to me.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

afaik there are no long-lasting effects on the brain (at least, not physically)

 

[DMTripper]

With other entheogens one can feel "drained" from the serotonin depletion afterwards, and some people use 5HTP to remedy that,

What entheogens are you referring to? My experience is the opposite.
Well unless I mix them with drugs like cannabis or mdma or something. Then I feel like shit afterwards.
I only use shrooms and dmt/harmalas. And if I do that solo I feel awesome afterwards. Well I can feel drained after a difficult trip. But always good mentally.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

What entheogens are you referring to? My experience is the opposite.
Well unless I mix them with drugs like cannabis or mdma or something. Then I feel like shit afterwards.

i think MDMA is precisely the substance he was referring to.

 

[oldsoul]

Yes, it was MDMA and to a lesser extent LSD that I was referring to.

From shrooms it is there for me too with a big dose but much less so than the above. DMT however - I have felt ZERO ill effects! Mental or physical. From mostly having experienced synthetic forms of entheogens, it seems to good to be true that the most powerful one is also the most benign physically!

I looked in the "Health & Safety" wiki and it said there are no clear guidelines how often DMT can be consumed without harm - is this still accurate, are there any updates since that was written?

At the time I created this thread I was wanting to smoke, but I had just done so the night before, and so was concerned that it was too soon afterwards.

 

[DMTripper]

Yes, it was MDMA and to a lesser extent LSD that I was referring to.

You know what MA in MDMA stands for? I don't think it's weird it fucks up your system. That's why I never do it.

From shrooms it is there for me too with a big dose but much less so than the above.

Have you done them absolutely solo? I only need to smoke a little weed at the end of a trip to totally ruin the afterglow. Mixing them with any other drugs than DMT ruins the afterglow for me.

 

[oldsoul]

You know what MA in MDMA stands for? I don't think it's weird it fucks up your system. That's why I never do it.

Whoa, methamphetamine! Never knew that, but yeah, that makes sense. I don't take MDMA anymore, I was into it for about a year or so when I was younger, then read/saw some stuff that scared me off of it, like possibly messing up your brain chemistry for good.

Have you done them absolutely solo? I only need to smoke a little weed at the end of a trip to totally ruin the afterglow. Mixing them with any other drugs than DMT ruins the afterglow for me.

Yea that is the best! I like just doing the lemon tek, eating them can mess with my stomach a bit.

I have only tried DMT fully sober... on shrooms it must be completely to another level, no?

I once did nitrous on shrooms, and had a brief, but full-on hallucination that I was a contestant on a TV game show where the winner was the one who could inhale the most nitrous. It wore off and I was like "where's the crowd and announcer, and the announcer's hot sidekick??". It was wild.

 

[Enoon]

I don't think there are any further scientific studies about this topic but lots of people report taking dmt or ayahuasca brews daily without any negative effects. Some people subject to that amount of psychedelic mind alteration might lose a grip on reality, but as far as the serotonergic system goes at least empirically it seems to have no negative effects.

with MDMA it seems high doses or repeated dosing can severly unbalance your brain chemistry which can leave you suffering from serotonin down-regulation for quite a while. It is however not clear if any physiological and irreversible damage is done by MDMA. The down-regulation is said to recover in time and with abstinence.

Reasonable doses of MDMA with long enough breaks between them seem to show a lot of succes for therapeutic purposes, so I wouldn't bash this substance or say "it fucks up your system". It's just a matter of using it in the right moments and doses.

 

[universecannon]

Platelet serotonin uptake sites increased in drinkers of ayahuasca

 

[DMTripper]

(Edit: Hahaha universecannon posted the link to the research while I was typing this post Thanx universecannon)

I don't think there are any further scientific studies about this topic but lots of people report taking dmt or ayahuasca brews daily without any negative effects.

Actually there are studies or at least one study done by dr. Charles Grob that has shown that regular use of Ayahuasca activates new serotonin receptors. I'm sorry I don't have a link straight to the research and don't have time to search for it now. But you can check this out:

And there's something about that study I think in this read:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru2.html

Reasonable doses of MDMA with long enough breaks between them seem to show a lot of succes for therapeutic purposes, so I wouldn't bash this substance or say "it fucks up your system". It's just a matter of using it in the right moments and doses.

Yes I agree, MDMA can do very good things for you. But should be used with caution. I did MDMA when I was younger several times but it kind of stopped working very soon. And now I couldn't use it without very ill effects.
But it did show me things I really appreciate and had deep impact on me in a positive way. I think everyone should give it a try.

 

[oldsoul]

Wow, thanks for posting this stuff, I read through things and watch the video, very interesting. I feel much safer now experimenting (at least the physical aspect!).

So if these new serotonin receptors are found in Ayahuasca drinkers, maybe it is not such a far fetched idea that entheogens have evolved human brains over last 40,000 years? I remember hearing once how we are anatomically human for about 100,000 years, but have only evidently started using culture and symbols about 40,000 years ago.

Amazing too what Grob was saying how long term Ayahuasca works even better than SSRIs by making the body more sensitive to any available serotonin.