DMT Trip/Brain operation(Hertz)

[Cheeto]

Maybe it would help us to do a little better research on compairing DMT Mysticals to Deep Meditation Mystical experinces. I read somewhere that when your triping ont DMT your brain is fire up with alot more activity than normal. In meditation the brain drops down in activity, 4 - 13 hertz. It is required to reduce brain activity to reach the Theta & Alpha levels, being thats what it stands for. This makes me very curious, because brain activty is increased on DMT, are we reaching another level of operation? Are the hertz actually increased above 30 rather than the normal reduction. Being that 30 hertz is considered wide awake, when on DMT are you possibly even more awake? I don't have a lot of knowledge on this subject, perhaps this experiment has already been done(observing brain opearation level during a DMT trip)? Can anyone help me with this question?

In a DMT trip, how many hertz is the brain operating at?

As far as i know, 30 hertz is the most you'll ever see, if DMT increases operation levels of the brain to new heights, wouldn't that be an amazing discovery?

 

[Infundibulum]

I'm not sure if I understand a single thing you're talking aboot. How does frequency of some brain waves (Herz) correlates with brain activity? I would assume these two to be quite different and not necessarily correlated.

As for looking at brainwaves, it is quite a crude and not-so-nformative way (at least to our current knowledge) of looking at brain. Albeit interesting, I feel that it is not the right way to pursue a research on the effects of dmt in the brain. But it is fairly non-evasive, that is true, that's why it is sometimes used.

Better to switch to some MRI if one wants to visualise brain activation levels. And MRI scanners are pretty good places for tripping/meditating. Nice, cozy, dark and silent.

 

[Cheeto]

hmmm, thats funny. I thought that was the whole reason for meditation. To clear your mind(You would figure there would be an less active brain here) to drop down to Theta & Alpha levels. Honestly i don't know shit about the brain. But isn't brain activity less when your in the Alpha state than wide awake? Or does activity have nothing to do with frequency, meaning no mater what frequency your brain is at activity dosen't have to change. But i though an more active brain would be one useing thought, as less activity would be not thinking. i would still be curious to know what frequency its working on in a DMT trip. I do know what frequency is, just like a radio, if you change the frequency you get another stream of information, same with the brain, i guess thats why i want to know. To see if perhaps you are tuned into another station when it comes to a DMT mystical experince, a frequency out of the norm, beyond 2-30 hertz. And yes it could help to know this. For example, say you checked on someone haveing a mystical trip and found there frequency to be higher than known, say 40 hertz. That would tell you that your is tuned into another frequency when having a mystacal experince on DMT. Its not much information, but to me it would be interesting to know. Since activity has nothing to do with frequency, just forget about that part.

 

[burnt]

Honestly i don't know shit about the brain.

Then stop listening to the weird ideas people have posted all over the internet and learn about it for yourself and you can arrive at some more logical conclusions that might start to go somewhere. This kind of frequency talk is incrediably simplified way of talking about the brain. Also realize I am not saying that to be mean or just shoot down your ideas. I am trying to encourage people to look beyond bizare things that are all over the internet and really sit down and learn whats going on in your mind before jumping to radical conclusions.

 

[Cheeto]

Honestly i don't know shit about the brain.

Then stop listening to the weird ideas people have posted all over the internet and learn about it for yourself and you can arrive at some more logical conclusions that might start to go somewhere. This kind of frequency talk is incrediably simplified way of talking about the brain. Also realize I am not saying that to be mean or just shoot down your ideas. I am trying to encourage people to look beyond bizare things that are all over the internet and really sit down and learn whats going on in your mind before jumping to radical conclusions.

ahhh, you again. Look, i know your not trying to be mean, but don't knock me for having an open mind, simple dosen't mean anything. True, science is a wonderful thing, it has helped us advance alot, but it has also slowed us down, less people will look into these things because its not approved to be logical by a group of people, even though the facts of science seem to change every now and then. Meaning they wern't fact to begin with, yet you would have believed them until they changed it, Just like everyone else. I think of alot of my crazy ideas myself thank you, and to me there not so crazy, so what is it your trying to prove? And i take the time to learn something everyday, i love to learn, so thanx for the information of how you feel this isn't important. I happen to still be curious about this, since your so smart and this is so simple, answer the question i asked.


Were just on different sides of the stick, you stick to facts and base your theorys on them. I don't have a limit, i can run off of facts or things that seem to be possible, because i understand that just because science hasn't yet recognized it, dosen't mean its not real. You say you don't discount theorys of aliens, but you seem to go out of your way to convince people to not see it as a possibility. You go as far as to insist its not real yet claim to not discount it. Please quit insisting that i'm jumping to radical conclusions, i have not once on this site came to a conclusion, i have simply stated things that i can see as possibility and shared my ideas.

 

[Jorkest]

well SWIM did an experiment with binaural rhythms and smoking spice...he used binaural rhythms that would get his brain hemispheres working about 6 hertz away from each other...im pretty sure that has to do with the theta stage..not sure if the hertz are right..but it was theta he was aiming for...what happens is you use one frequency in the right ear..and another frequency in the left...and the difference is a new frequency that you can actually hear in your head...SWIM has used this with spice..and done it with many other drugs as well...also for sleeping and other random ass things..

it does work..with the theta frequencies the visuals were slowed way down..and very wave like...and very swim like..

one time he used them and went to a room where 9 beings where standing around him..and on the floor in front of them were these very interesting sculptures...hypersculptures...and then he moved on to this very swimmy sort of place...it was all very interesting and should most certainly be checked out by more people...it could be a very good way of adding a bit of control to what you are doing...

perhaps in the alpha and beta ranges you will be able to remember more of your experience instead of losing so much of it..

 

[burnt]

Were just on different sides of the stick, you stick to facts and base your theorys on them. I don't have a limit, i can run off of facts or things that seem to be possible, because i understand that just because science hasn't yet recognized it, dosen't mean its not real. You say you don't discount theorys of aliens, but you seem to go out of your way to convince people to not see it as a possibility. You go as far as to insist its not real yet claim to not discount it. Please quit insisting that i'm jumping to radical conclusions, i have not once on this site came to a conclusion, i have simply stated things that i can see as possibility and shared my ideas.

Yes and I am sharing mine no problem with that. But I do want explanations for things otherwise I see it as too vague sometimes. Anyway I am sorry to keep bothering you its nothing personal I think I do this to everyone... (am i really that annoying? ) Haha but don't take what I am saying as challenge or anything like that I am just trying to discuss the situation a bit deeper because it is interesting to me. Maybe I come off harsh but thats because we are just typing things and not talking directly, and I do apologize for that maybe I should try to word things a bit differently because I think I do this often and don't really mean too.

Anyone I don't think I am a supergenius or anything far from it and I actually don't know the answer to the question you asked. I am just trying to point out that there is a lot more to the brain then these kinds of frequencies that should be considered and fit into this idea for it to make more sense.

Which brings me to my question. I am too used to thinking about the brain on the molecular level and was curious how things going on at the molecular level tie into overall brain freuquencies and can anyone point me to some links or papers that talk about such things? Or have any ideas?

 

[Cheeto]

burnt:

Anyone I don't think I am a supergenius or anything far from it and I actually don't know the answer to the question you asked. I am just trying to point out that there is a lot more to the brain then these kinds of frequencies that should be considered and fit into this idea for it to make more sense.

--------------------------------

"jumping to radical conclusions", "Then stop listening to the weird ideas people have posted all over the internet and learn about it for yourself and you can arrive at some more logical conclusions that might start to go somewhere"

Well i to am sorry for getting snapy, it just seemed you were directly shooting me down for having different opinions, and with the brain i have many things to focus on besides it, and don't feel like dedicating years to learning about it. If you know anything about the brain then you are aware it involves lots of attention and lots of readings to only partialy understand it. I was just thinking simple on the question, i wasn't wanting to venture into the depths of the brain, its to easy to get lost. I was just thinking in terms of frequency change like a radio, i knew our brains frequency changes. some suggest that deep meditation is tuneing into a different signal. I wasn't even wanting to venture into it after i got an answer, because like you said, theres not much you can do with that.

 

[burnt]

All good man . SWIM does study various aspects of brain chemistry so often gets critical of certain things out there on the web that related brain phenomenon to spiritual notions etc because as you say deep meditation seems to cause a different frequency but what kind of frequency and what kind of changes are taking place in various parts of the brain to explain the frequency changes. If people aren't asking those questions then they aren't really trying to figure out whats going on (note I am not saying you but people who have whole websites dedicated to this kind of stuff). I was being more critical of the information not you.

 

[Jorkest]

i think in your little heart to heart guys you missed my post..

SWIM has had very AMAZING experiences with Window Frequencies(look it up) its a way of synchronizing the two brain hemispheres through sound..you can also do it through light as well(eyes) it DOES WORK..there is absolutely no question in my mind. SWIM has used these sound technologies to help stabilize his brain so that he can check out different parts of the DMT experience..

the way SWIM views it...

chemical reactions cause a vibration..and vibration should then be able to cause a chemical reaction..because chemical reactions are just two or more substances that when placed close together interact with each other..through vibration..when these vibrations(chemicals) interact..a new harmonic(reaction) occurs...

so when you take one side of your brain and feed it 100hz..and you feed the other side of your brain with 104hz..you will actually HEAR in your head a third frequency...that third frequency is 4hz...and 0-4hz is the delta..or deep sleep frequency of your brain..

now if you use 100hz in one ear and 104-107 in your other ear...the resulting frequency that you CAN HEAR..is going to be around 4-7 hertz..this is in the Theta range..which happens when you are having a dream..or VISUALIZING..

and this goes all the way up to the alpha and beta ranges which have to do with your awakened state of being

I have experimented a lot with these Window Frequencies and i can say that in combination with other substances you basically get a whole new drug out of it

 

[mattimus]

Jorkest, how safe is this? what are the effects of doing it sober? are there computer programs that can do this or do u need to buy one of the CD kits.

 

[Jorkest]

there are computer programs that can do this..i know of a tone generator that you can create your own with..once you learn about the window frequencies..one is NCH Tone Generator..you just need to create two tones..one for the left channel and one for the right

and its pretty damn safe..and the effects while sober are quite something...you can easily enter into a hypnotic trance with visions and other things with some Theta frequency..there are other generators but the single tones work fine...and if you are really into making music..you can implant these frequencies in your music...just make sure there is a warning on it..because


you DO NOT want to use this while driving...that is the only dangerous part

 

[Cheeto]

i think in your little heart to heart guys you missed my post..

SWIM has had very AMAZING experiences with Window Frequencies(look it up) its a way of synchronizing the two brain hemispheres through sound..you can also do it through light as well(eyes) it DOES WORK..there is absolutely no question in my mind. SWIM has used these sound technologies to help stabilize his brain so that he can check out different parts of the DMT experience..

What i was wanting to know was without anything other than DMT, only having the mystical experince(Not none breakthroughs, i think its possible there's a seperation between hallucinating and iteraction with a mystical being, as hallucinating can lead to but not diffined as the mystical experince), to check the frequency to see if it fits in another range of frequency unkown, like 50 hertz rather than the typical 4-30.

chemical reactions cause a vibration..and vibration should then be able to cause a chemical reaction..because chemical reactions are just two or more substances that when placed close together interact with each other..through vibration..when these vibrations(chemicals) interact..a new harmonic(reaction) occurs...

so when you take one side of your brain and feed it 100hz..and you feed the other side of your brain with 104hz..you will actually HEAR in your head a third frequency...that third frequency is 4hz...and 0-4hz is the delta..or deep sleep frequency of your brain..

(Not on DMT, because you would already be )
I could suggest something, if i understand what your saying correctly, your saying you can change the brain frequency by sound/vibration correct in a way atleast? Maybe you could attempt to get the brain frequency to a higher frequency , like mentioned above, 31-50 hertz. If it will work that way. To see if it is possible to tune your brain into receiving information from a higher signal, like all of a sudden when your brain tunes to this frequency you do not perceive the physical world you know, but some other dimension. I wish i was a scientist and could conduct my own experiments, with plenty of funds, though my ideas may fail when put to the test, thats the whole reason for the test, to see if it passes or fails.

 

[Jorkest]

thats not a bad idea..perhaps i will conduct some experiments..its too bad i dont have neuro-feedback equipment

 

[Cheeto]

thats not a bad idea..perhaps i will conduct some experiments..its too bad i dont have neuro-feedback equipment

O hell yea dude, if you do make sure you share the results with me, i assume you would anyway, just stating that.


This is a very interesting question for me because it also kinda complies with the string theory and the multidimensions. I believe they suggested it would take 10 dimensions to work out. I also believe they suggest that we perceive 3 dimesnions merged(Though i may be wrong here). So i'm thinking if you can acheive a higher brain fequency, you can merge more of these dimensions into your perception, as the higher the frequency the more dimensions merged. I know when meditating your frequency goes down, but, has the frequency ever been checked during a mystical experince non drug induced or drug induced. Pehaps it goes down while meditating, but when the mystical part begins it spikes up where you are perceiving more dimensions(31+ Hertz, or perhaps it has to go a little further up to merge, say starting at 35-40 hertz).

Ha! it would make sense, this merge of dimensions. If you look at meditation as the frequency drops you are droping off parts of perception, Sound, touch and thought, perhaps reducing the amount of dimensions merged.

 

[mattimus]

MiniCD Relaxation Learning
Single Track 20.5 min.
15 sec glide 10 to 8 Hz
10 min @ 8hz
15 sec glide 8 to 7 Hz
10 min @ 7Hz

Mini CD Creative Single Track 20.5 min
15 sec glide 10 - 8 Hz
4min @ 8 Hz
15 sec glide 8 - 6 Hz
4min @ 6 Hz
15 sec glide 6 - 8 Hz
9.25 min @ 8 Hz
15 sec glide 8 - 6 Hz
1.25min @ 6 Hz
15sec glide 6 - 8 Hz
45sec @ 8 Hz


Theres 2 of the people who make the CDs tracks. Thanks for the info jorkest, I got the NCH tone generator.

Web-us.com has all their tracks on it and the tones they use for each thing.

 

[burnt]

the way SWIM views it...

chemical reactions cause a vibration..and vibration should then be able to cause a chemical reaction..because chemical reactions are just two or more substances that when placed close together interact with each other..through vibration..when these vibrations(chemicals) interact..a new harmonic(reaction) occurs...

A vibration in the chemicals or a release of electromagnetic energy?

This is sort of the principle behind nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR and MRI). Basically in a uniform magnetic field lets say protons (in the case of proton NMR) line up and then by pulsing them with radiowaves of certain frequencies they absorb the energy shift their axis (etc I wont get into the physics of this its complicated) and then as they release you signals come out and you get information about the shape of the molecule.

My question is though what vibrations or what is vibrating (excuse SWIM I am very unmusically inclined and don't know much about tones and these kind of things)? You are using sound I assume?

There is also this helmet dubbed the "god helmet" where they get people to trip out in certain ways by using i think magnetic energy to mess with parts of the brain. I forget the details but is that at all tied into this type of stuff?

 

[Infundibulum]

Brainwaves are a release of electromagnetic energy from the cortex. In other words, patterned neuronal discharges that have some amplitude and frequency. So there are the alpha, beta, gamma delta theta etc. brainwaves that originate from different lobes of the cortex and they allegedly correspond to different states of mind. This is fine so far, even though they are no more informative as to what they actually mean in terms of brain activity.

Now, there is the thing with mechanical vibrations. We have all those equipment one can put on his/her head or those sound files that produce certain frequencies. These are mechanical frequencies (sound waves) and qualitatively different from the electromagnetic brainwaves.

These mechanical sound stimuli seem to work. At least to some people and definitely to some extend. One does not even need to go very that far to be convinced as to their effectiveness. In meditational practices music or sounds (mechanical stimuli) have been used as aids. Monotonous singing (ooooommmmmmmmmmm), drumming, singing bowls etc. seem to have some effect on bringing forth those states.

But it gets hazy when people use mechanical stimuli, i.e. soundwaves (at least in the case those sound files or "god's helmets) to allegedly stimulate certain brainwave patterns. For the moment it is pretty much unclear to me how a sound that happens to vibrate on a certain frequency can induce your brain to fire up electromagnetic waves of the same frequency.

If that was true, one could feed the skull with mechanical vibrations of 8–12 Hz that have the same frequency of the brain's alpha waves and induce the meditational dreamy states associated with the EEG alpha wave neuronal firing. So far so good, this is what some of these machines are claiming to do.

But, on the other hand, could one use the mechanical vibrations of the >15 Hz which correspond the frequency of the brains beta waves, commonly associated with active, busy, or anxious thinking and active concentration?

Could generally one use mechanical frequencies to induce EEG firing patters whose frequency is the same or very similar to the mechanical frequencies applied? If that were true, then one would have sounds (or vibrations) to induce "waking up", sounds to induce "sleeping", sounds to induce meditation, dreaming and the sort.

Is that true?

 

[burnt]

^^Thanks for clearing that up. What parts of the brain do these frequencies of sound waves effect when they induce these states? Again this is where MRI would come in handy although I wonder if the magnetic field would interfere?

 

[Infundibulum]

Honestly I have no clue, neither I can find any references. I think part of it is because this may be considered pseudoscience. The idea of applying mechanical waves which make the brain's electromagnetic waves to resonate at the same or similar frequency does not make much sense. At the moment at least, where our knowledge of these processes is still at its infancy.

We are not usually able to hear mechanical waves of less than 20Hz (due to the mechanics of the human ear ) so such sound waves would feel like soft vibrations. I would be more interested to hear about Jorkest's experiments and what exactly one feels. Similarly, would be nice to investigate whether sounds applied to meditational settings also include distinct frequencies at the below 10Hz range.