Do Harmala's have health benefits?

[DJ_Truthseek]

Does anyone have any experience taking extracts like pure Hamaline and harmine to benefit health? I've read that MAOI's used to be prescribed for depression and stuff until there was a few incidences of 'cheese syndrome'. I've also read that there has been more problems with this generations anti-depressants then with the MAOI's. And since Harmala's are reversible they don't cause 'cheese syndrome'.

Just wondering if these would be safe in small daily doses? If anyone has tried this and how did it help them?

 

[Cheop]

As far as safety goes i dont think there are any long term or daily use issues, as long as you avoid the usual no-no foods and substances all should be well.

 

[DJ_Truthseek]

Has anyone used them and seen benefits though?

 

[endlessness]

Regarding the harmala MAOI+food, as the OP already said, there is no real interaction danger. The FAQ has a bit more to say about it.

Regarding MAOI's health benefits, I have experimented a bit with harmalas either purified by themselves, in pharma or in the full plant brews (ayahuasca), but it would be very hard for me to separate any specific effects that they have. Since there are so many things involved such as set and setting, my beliefs regarding these substances, my daily health habits, the other psychedelics I consume, etc, how could I really know what is specifically the harmalas? I do know that they definitely dont feel negative in any way.

Nevertheless, there are some researches relating to harmalas, and I think this thread is a good place for you to start digging There are some other publications such as this which indicate harmalas may be useful in fighting certain neurogenetic disorders, but thats preliminary information, still a far cry from actually claiming with certainty they do by themselves cure or significantly help anything. Always important to exercise caution when making claims.

The ingestion of ayahuasca has been shown in scientific investigation to upregulate serotonin platelets uptake sites, which could potentially mean people become more sensitive to serotonin (and maybe thus being less prone to depressions), but again, these are all hypothetical conclusions from certain results of which we dont really know much about, so we have to be cautious in making these claims. Also we dont know whether this upregulation is related specifically to all harmalas, to some specific harmala alkaloids, to dmt, to a mix of it all, or what.

Another aspect which can point out to the fact that harmalas may be of benefit in anti-depression treatments is the fact that certain MAOIs (not harmalas) are actually sold as anti-depressive medication by pharmaceutical companies (since MAOs also metabolizes serotonin, so inhibiting them would increase serotonin levels). Though nowadays Big Pharma more commonly uses newer anti-depressants which belong to another chemical category, such as SSRIs. In any case it does show how harmalas can potentially be of help one's health in this chemical sense.

With that all being said, I really dont know how one would react with taking harmalas every single day. Maybe there would be an upregulation of natural MAOs ? Or maybe not, but maybe the fact that harmalas are slightly sedating would be a hindrance to someone's well-being if they take them at an unnapropriate daily time?

Im curious if anybody else does have experience with daily or very regular harmala ingestion.

 

[DJ_Truthseek]

Thanks Endlessness. I've actually been digging on the web allot about this and I read a few articles(I wish I have book marked them). My problem is I have ADD. Not hyper-active. just inattentive. Can't concentrate. Plus a little self esteem and depression with the stress I'm under now. While reading about anti-depressants and MAOI's I was surprised to read that there were fewer incidences with the old MAOI's(cheese sydrome) than the new SSRI's(suicide, lower libido,etc..). There are some newer MAOI's that don't even have those problems either. Also this does make me wonder if the anti-depressant effects of Aya are from the MAOI effect. I haven't tried any yet though. Here's a good article: Theraputic potential of MAO's

It is now know that there are endogenous MAOI's (here's a little blurb) that increase with stress. Maybe our bodies modulate MAO ACTIVITY with endogenous MAOIs rather than the amount of MAOI. Just a thought since if you irreversibly inhibit all you MAOs it take weeks for them to replace themselves. Does anyone know anymore about Endogeneous MAOI's? Maybe disfunction of these endogenous MAOI's is the cause of some deseases by too much or not enough inhibition causing an imbalance in neurotransmitters. MAO metabolizes all the major ones(Noradrenaline, Serotonin, Dopamine).

Anyways, I might experiment with supplementing with Harmalas. Good Idea or not? Any idea on doses?

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Harmalas have helped me beat an otherwise debilitating depression and anxiety (e.g., I used to sit locked inside my car for 20 minutes before work wanting to vomit).

I was eventually able to develop an awareness of myself separate from my symptoms, and whenever anxiety does strike, I noticed a microdose of Caapi would completely flip the situation.

I've been drinking weekly for close to three years, and do notice a bit of a depressive drag 5-6 days after a ceremony.

I have also experimented off and on with microdosing Caapi. Recently, I've been microdosing every single day (plus the regular tea ceremony + spice etc.) for the past three months.

It has been nothing short of amazing. Caapi opens up doors in my mind. My body relaxes and I am more flexible, it takes MUCH more to stress me out, I am more eloquent, outgoing, patient, the list goes on. It promotes what feels like a fluidity of being.

I originally just wanted some relief from depression--I struggled with suicide and suicidal thoughts for years--and ended up getting SO much more than just relief. I got a second chance at life. I feel like Caapi keeps the color in my world. I get to be a kid again. I have the gift of feeling wonder. I feel so connected to the web of life.

The flip side of daily harmalas--my case may be especially exacerbated because I also combine this with an 80%+ fruit diet, so I am flooding my system 24/7 with plant chemicals of all kinds--is that I have become *EXTREMELY* sensitive. Compounds that were previously neuroactive in large doses are now highly neuroactive in homeopathic doses. PEAs, caffeine, theobromine, anything even remotely stimulating will keep me awake for days, drifting in and out of panic. I am exceptionally sensitive to melatonin--homeopathic doses of melatonin from food sources now build into intense Caapi-like states for several hours (when the metabolism of melatonin normally takes about 45 minutes and just makes you sleep). Curcumin... Wow!!

My case is definitely extreme, again, as I am very interested in cultivating a greater sensitivity. I think it is worth mentioning that such a sensitivity is possible. In light of these effects, traditional dietary measures suddenly make so much sense. Spices should be avoided because many of them are neuroactive, and in a harmala-saturated state one can be very sensitive to them. Salt and oil (in heavier foods) can definitely be used to induce numbness and dull an experience. Eating fruit full of the right phytochemicals can bring me right back up again.

Other psychoactive plants must be explored with caution. Two puffs of cannabis, and I was under the covers, shivering the way I do with Caapi, lost in a sea of fullblown visions. I also have to be extremely careful with smoking harmalas in this state, because they build very powerfully.

My body's response to full-dose Caapi is also becoming increasingly fascinating. Visions are brighter, more DMT-like. I have intense full-body kundalini experiences constantly. With a full dose of oral Caapi (120g) and 10mg jungle spice, I was stuck in a fullblown breakthrough changa state for 2-3 hours. Oral Mimosa feels about 15-20x more potent (0.25g is suddenly WAAY too much!).

Steady background doses of harmalas definitely make everything more intense. Before microdosing, my experiences with Caapi were cut and dry. A certain dose would bring a certain intensity and be done in a certain amount of hours. With a constantly MAOI'd state and a diet that supports the brain, reaching these states with a fraction of the chemicals previously required, at greater depths and for potentially much more extended periods of time becomes possible. This is absolutely positive, productive, and fascinating, AS LONG AS YOU ARE AWARE AND PREPARED. My job, my living situation, all aspects of my lifestyle support this exploration so it can be a positive thing. Extended harmala use is extremely powerful and must be undertaken with an extreme amount of respect.

But the rewards are immense... especially if you are suffering or have suffered from depression or anxiety. Something so much more radiant is our birthright. I am eternally grateful for these plants as medicine.

 

[joedirt]

Minx,

I noticed you posted the other day after a LONG hiatus.

I'm curious if you still use harmalas on a regular basis and what your current thoughts are about this sort of dosage regime?

Peace

 

[universecannon]

Hmm, this post here was from 3 years ago, and it says she hasn't posted since september. I've had similar experiences with harmalas/caapi/rue so it would be interesting to hear her current thoughts on this.

 

[joedirt]

Universecannon you are correct. I saw the "Coming Out" Thread the other day and just assumed it was her posting recently. Did not realize that was back in September.

 

[Coja]

I once took a very large dose of B. caapi extract with some amount of P. viridis and/or alba foliage extract which was not sufficient for a breakthrough experience. However, the 1/4 lb. of mature caapi vine concentrate led to a few purges from both ends over the course of the evening. In the days that followed, a bunch of warts that had grown on my hands (during a prolonged high stress, unhealthy living period of my life) just vanished. I'd had these warts treated with a liquid nitrogen wart gun, which only lead to scars and didn't kill any off months prior.

B. caapi is good medicine all on its own on so many levels. Anti-microbal/bacterial/viral/fungal ... good medicine for the soul on top of that, not to mention a beneficial effect on the growth of serotonin receptors (still waiting to see the study examining B. caapi therapy on MDMA spunions who've zapped enough serotonin receptors to negatively effect their lives).

 

[Jees]

Wondering what people mean with their "microdosing", some numbers are in order to get a picture of their praxis.