Do you like psychedelics but not weed?

[matukuul]

^^^ Agree wholeheartedly on many of the things you said, and the rest resonated with me as well. While I do think that my usage is fine now and always will be... If for any reason there is ever a time when I need to slow down or take a break.. And that does happen now even from time to time just not too drastically because I'm so young.. I think I would have enough brains to realize when the time is right to do so.. Slowing down being the more likely option.. Along with still occasional use of other substances.. I have no worries about how such things will effect me, because the only thing that gets in my way is myself, and I have that under control.

So on the one hand you are putting down my current position ('blah blah blah' mature response btw :roll: ), and yet you agree with Fool, on pretty much exactly my point.

Yes I said I agree on some points Fool made, and I explained why I don't agree with the points you made. The only reason I agree with him is because I can see how smoking TOO much like daily could keep you from reaching a profound state as he said, but I suppose on second thought I don't necessarily know if I believe that. I also agreed with moving on to stronger substances and combinations of substances as he said.

I also can see how it can go from a blessing to an obstacle, for some, but not necessarily for myself, and only for the reasons I stated, not for reasons like adrenal burnout, or blaming it for my own shortcomings. Those are not things caused by weed. Those are caused by the abuse of weed, which manifests from a spiritual source. Yes smoking anything is unhealthy, but so is soda, and stress. I don't really think at the end of the day in my life time it will have made much of a difference in my health, nor will it have held me back at all. I don't even think it causes cancer! It makes it harder to jog, sure, but really it's just not that bad (I skateboard everyday by the way, doesn't slow me down). Any health problems that I have later on in life will not be caused by my chronic usage but from spiritual sources, and maybe those spiritual sources will use my weed usage to express themselves but that's still not the weed, so assuming I keep them under control, weed should be fine, and so should my health regarding any serious concerns.

And look all I was saying is that if I ever decided I wanted to try to do things like meditate or work on a profound state, I would slow down or quit for a period to see how that might help the process, and if I ever did think that it was effecting me in a physiological way ten years down the road where the cons outweighed the pros, then I would slow down or quite, whatever would be necessary. But at the same time I think that my beliefs are quite valid and I don't think that's going to need to happen based on my experience so far.. I have my reasons. I know this is not the case for everyone, but I still stand by what I said about that and I'm glad you think it's so mature... I guess we'll know ten years from now who's right, lol. :d

You say yourself "If for any reason there is ever a time when I need to slow down or take a break.. And that does happen now even from time to time just not too drastically because I'm so young.."

Give it time and your attitude may well change, just because everything is plain sailing at this point in time, there is no reason to try and discredit some one elses experience, just by reinterpreting it to suit your argument, that's just ridiculous. Saying Frac's experience is just him is hardly conclusive, you don't know him or his situation, yet seem to know everything about it (?!) if he was smoking that much weed for that much time, chances are he WAS experiencing something physiological, and the fact that it stoppped when he quit doesn't really give that argument much weight. I haven't heard anyone here say anything particularly against weed, merely stating what their current relationship with it is. Its not slanderous to point out its pitfalls, its honest and responsible. But, promote it how best you see fit, those of us with extensive experience have our own take on it.

Weed has changed many of my attitudes about things, has helped me with anger and depression, soothed me on come downs, and been a very good friend, but as with all relationships, things change over time and you learn to be less reliant. The fact that it smooths out anger, depression etc makes these things easier to adress by your self, but there will come a time when you need to learn to do these things without as Fool puts it 'a security blanket' and in many ways he is right. You learn what you need then you graduate and move on, like going to school getting your grades, passing the exams, then moving on to the next stage of life, it is much the same.

Any how, I am glad you find it such a rewarding plant, much as I have, I owe a lot to Mary, and still love her dearly, but at the moment my main teacher is spice, which is helping me move past various obstacles that have presented themselves, one being feeling the need to be stoned all the time!

Are you totally just ignoring the points I made? The fact that he stopped and made changes besides quitting smoking to his life does give weight to my argument, and so does his defensiveness and unwillingness to elaborate on what those changes were.

I've also already learned how to do things without the 'security blanket'! I had to go through probation for 2 years and got clean for months at a time. I'm not some weed fiend who needs it to function and feel like 'myself'. I know who I am, and I'm pretty sure I won't forget no matter how lost I am in clouds of smoke. :d I think you just kind of sound like you have a grudge against weed. You seem to think people eventually need to quite for really no reason. You try to explain one but it's just very vague like: "You learn what you need then you graduate and move on, like going to school getting your grades, passing the exams, then moving on to the next stage of life, it is much the same." I mean please, what is that you think I'm gonna need to learn that I'll need to quite weed in the future to do so? I'm a very sharp individual and like I have said, weed does not hold me back. It enhances my life. The only thing that holds you back is yourself. Or this one: "there is no reason to try and discredit some one elses experience, just by reinterpreting it to suit your argument. that's just ridiculous" Sure there is, for the reasons I stated. Why else would I make an argument? Saying unsubstantiated statements like this seems a little ridiculous to me. I back up everything I say with thorough explanations.

And I see where your coming from with trying to be honest and responsible, but you still haven't said anything substantial in regards to proving my opinions invalid other than "Just wait and you'll see!!", nothing that actually explains why my understanding of the matter is inaccurate. Perhaps if you had thought like me when you were my age, you wouldn't be saying the same thing now? You even say you feel like you need to be stoned all the time, what's wrong with that? I understand it's not very good for your wallet or your job, etc, so if it's effecting those things yes you need to stop, but is that really the weed? That's more like society. Then you have trouble quitting, but that's still not the weed, that's you! You don't have enough discipline. Yes I can see how spice may help you with that.. Kudos, but to blame weed for your inability to control it's usage is a cop out, and such behavior more than likely reflects itself in other aspects of your life.

 

[Purges]

Yes I said I agree on some points Fool made, and I explained why I don't agree with the points you made. The only reason I agree with him is because I can see how smoking TOO much like daily could keep you from reaching a profound state as he said, but I suppose on second thought I don't necessarily know if I believe that. I also agreed with moving on to stronger substances and combinations of substances as he said.

I also can see how it can go from a blessing to an obstacle, for some, but not necessarily for myself, and only for the reasons I stated, not for reasons like adrenal burnout, or blaming it for my own shortcomings. Those are not things caused by weed. Those are caused by the abuse of weed, which manifests from a spiritual source. Yes smoking anything is unhealthy, but so is soda, and stress. I don't really think at the end of the day in my life time it will have made much of a difference in my health, nor will it have held me back at all. I don't even think it causes cancer! It makes it harder to jog, sure, but really it's just not that bad (I skateboard everyday by the way, doesn't slow me down). Any health problems that I have later on in life will not be caused by my chronic usage but from spiritual sources, and maybe those spiritual sources will use my weed usage to express themselves but that's still not the weed, so assuming I keep them under control, weed should be fine, and so should my health regarding any serious concerns.

And look all I was saying is that if I ever decided I wanted to try to do things like meditate or work on a profound state, I would slow down or quit for a period to see how that might help the process, and if I ever did think that it was effecting me in a physiological way ten years down the road where the cons outweighed the pros, then I would slow down or quite, whatever would be necessary. But at the same time I think that my beliefs are quite valid and I don't think that's going to need to happen based on my experience so far.. I have my reasons. I know this is not the case for everyone, but I still stand by what I said about that and I'm glad you think it's so mature... I guess we'll know ten years from now who's right, lol. :d

Are you totally just ignoring the points I made? The fact that he stopped and made changes besides quitting smoking to his life does give weight to my argument, and so does his defensiveness and unwillingness to elaborate on what those changes were.

I've also already learned how to do things without the 'security blanket'! I had to go through probation for 2 years and got clean for months at a time. I'm not some weed fiend who needs it to function and feel like 'myself'. I know who I am, and I'm pretty sure I won't forget no matter how lost I am in clouds of smoke. :d I think you just kind of sound like you have a grudge against weed. You seem to think people eventually need to quite for really no reason. You try to explain one but it's just very vague like: "You learn what you need then you graduate and move on, like going to school getting your grades, passing the exams, then moving on to the next stage of life, it is much the same." I mean please, what is that you think I'm gonna need to learn that I'll need to quite weed in the future to do so? I'm a very sharp individual and like I have said, weed does not hold me back. It enhances my life. The only thing that holds you back is yourself. Or this one: "there is no reason to try and discredit some one elses experience, just by reinterpreting it to suit your argument. that's just ridiculous" Sure there is, for the reasons I stated. Why else would I make an argument? Saying unsubstantiated statements like this seems a little ridiculous to me. I back up everything I say with thorough explanations.

And I see where your coming from with trying to be honest and responsible, but you still haven't said anything substantial in regards to proving my opinions invalid other than "Just wait and you'll see!!", nothing that actually explains why my understanding of the matter is inaccurate. Perhaps if you had thought like me when you were my age, you wouldn't be saying the same thing now? You even say you feel like you need to be stoned all the time, what's wrong with that? I understand it's not very good for your wallet or your job, etc, so if it's effecting those things yes you need to stop, but is that really the weed? That's more like society. Then you have trouble quitting, but that's still not the weed, that's you! You don't have enough discipline. Yes I can see how spice may help you with that.. Kudos, but to blame weed for your inability to control it's usage is a cop out, and such behavior more than likely reflects itself in other aspects of your life.

Yet again you are putting words into some one's mouth :lol: You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, I have no issue with that in the slightest, how ever saying I have a 'grudge' against weed is completely the oposite of my 'real life' attitude. Fact is I love pretty much everything about it. This doesn't mean that regular, extended use can bring about serious de-motivation, lethargy, mood swings, even panic attacks for some, which can be very debilitating. I am lucky enough to be one of those people who can smoke and then go about my day, where as others are left in a much more zombified state. To me it sounds like you have a 'grudge' against anyone who may be so bold as to point out cannabis' pit falls.

"perhaps if you had thought like me when you were my age..." How do you know that I didn't think pretty much exactly how you are coming across? I have no problem with people smoking all the time, if that is what they want to do. 'That's more like society' - lol that is a sound argument too, we are free to do as we please for thee most part. As for the latter judgements on my character, please! I have gradually cut down over a period of several years through personal choice, held down numerous jobs, got an awesome long term girlfriend who I have lived with for the past 4 years - who incidentally never saw my weed consumption as an issue of any kind, got a degree, run my own club night, produced music and performed regularly as a DJ all through my own 'lack of discipline' - all of which I did even while I was a heavy smoker.

"You try to explain one but it's just very vague like: "You learn what you need then you graduate and move on, like going to school getting your grades, passing the exams, then moving on to the next stage of life, it is much the same.""

This is called a metaphor, it is well known that young men especially (early 20's) are among the highest consumers of weed, this may well be because of hormones and many other physiological and sociological factors, but the fact remains. Why would you be so different? When I was 21 I did have the "I'm gonna smoke every day til I die and its never going to do me any harm at all" mentality to some extent, and that is exactly how you are coming off. It is a helpful plant in many ways, especially during a transitional, and often stressful point in your life.

Years of heavy use did eventually give me chest pains, and affected my motivation, memory and concentration, none of these things I would call 'positive'. I chose to become more moderate and even abstain for these reasons. I used my own discipline, which i am so sorely lacking, apparently, to do so. When you are so used to something, it can be hard to give up, I made the mistake of smoking it with tobacco as well, which no doubt made it harder for me to stop, so overcoming that would take more discipline, no?

As for Frac, I will let him justify himself to you if he thinks it is worth his while spilling out what could be potentially very sensitive information.

Any how, interpret what I have said how ever you like, read between the lines and make more amusing assumptions if you like, I am confident I know my own take on this, and I am happy that you find weed does nothing but good things for you, long may it stay that way

 

[matukuul]

'That's more like society' - lol that is a sound argument too. we are free to do as we please for thee most part.

I only meant if it were legal, then whoever just wanted to grow their own wouldn't have to spend their money on it. This eliminates the issues of usage effecting your bills, and etc. And yea, we're only free to do as we please as long we over work our whole lives into debt at some mindless repetitive job, not to mention so much more but you already know how the story goes, so please, what a silly thing to say.

As for the rest of your post, I did not put words in your mouth, I was simply stating how things seemed based on what very little you had said. I see your points, but I would like to add that de-motivation, lethargy, mood swings, and even panic attacks, are still all the result of spiritual ailments expressing themselves. Period. Alleviate the ailments, and you will not have those problems.

For your chest pains, yes I can see how those may be due to smoking heavily for many years (have you ever tried a Volcano?! they're awesome.. it's like the first time you got high.. every time..), but even still those could have a spiritual source. I know you'll disagree.

For your affected motivation, memory, and concentration, I still think those could be spiritual issues. Yes weed brings out those effects in some people when they get high but I think a truly disciplined individual is able to control them, even later on in life, but even those particular issues are not really that undesirable at all if society weren't set up in a way that demanded one to be some sort of robotic slave, because they are actually some of the enjoyable effects of the drug itself. I mean if we didn't have these jobs to go to and all your life consisted of was sustaining and maintaining your home and your community, and figuring out what to do with all your leisure time, then none of those things would be a problem at all would they? I don't think so. Think what you want. It's even possible that your chest pains would not manifest in such a world.

I mean those particular aspects of your life shouldn't be affected anymore than they were when you first started smoking by the drug, so why are they now? Isn't it possible that as you grow up you face new challenges that you may not have had when you first started smoking, maybe some that you haven't even recognized yet and crept up on or maybe life and society are just taking it's toll so that you mistakenly blame the weed? You are getting older after all.

And yes, I understand it was a metaphor but pointing that out doesn't make it not vague, and last time I checked school is a joke, so what's your point? Just what exactly do I need to graduate and move on to? And why? Because of chest pains? Which could have been from the tobacco! Lol! Idk I'm not saying you have all these problems, you sound like a real cool and motivated guy with the DJ thing, the night club, and the degree and everything, but that doesn't mean you don't have some spiritual sources that could be causing your physical ailments which you think have been directly caused by weed, and your unwillingness to subscribe to the notion could result in the source manifesting itself in another way in your life once you quit or moderate your usage of the drug, and the loss of your wonderful relationship with it based on false assumptions. I know plenty of older people that still smoke, some 50-60 years old, and they never complain about such things.

Anyway, I respect you not wanting to wanna smoke, I'm not trying to change your mind to go back and start blazin' it up, but idk just let me know what you think about what I just said if you'd like.. In ten years if I find out that I'm wrong like I said, I'll change my ways, but for right now, I still stand by what I say, and like I also said, I have my reasons.

 

[Purges]

'That's more like society' - lol that is a sound argument too. we are free to do as we please for thee most part.

I only meant if it were legal, then whoever just wanted to grow their own wouldn't have to spend their money on it. This eliminates the issues of usage effecting your bills, and etc. And yea, we're only free to do as we please as long we over work our whole lives into debt at some mindless repetitive job, not to mention so much more but you already know how the story goes, so please, what a silly thing to say.[/quote]

Yes, I agree, everyone should be free to grow and consume it as they wish. If that was the case i would certainly have a grow room, and a variety of strains on the go. It may even help to pay the bills etc. I also agree that many people do over work, and put too much stock in a successful career these days. But, again, we are not forced to, we are still free to live how ever we like, and if you like expensive cars, clothes, jewellery etc then yes, you may have to enslave yourself to some degree to get that, but it is still a choice, so no, I don't think it was a silly thing to say

As for the rest of your post, I did not put words in your mouth, I was simply stating how things seemed based on what very little you had said. I see your points, but I would like to add that de-motivation, lethargy, mood swings, and even panic attacks, are still all the result of spiritual ailments expressing themselves. Period. Alleviate the ailments, and you will not have those problems.

I'm sorry but that is pure speculation. Period. There is no proof to back up a claim like that. There are many things that can cause these things, and yes maybe some are based on some sort of spiritual deficiency - certain forms of depression for instance.

For your chest pains, yes I can see how those may be due to smoking heavily for many years (have you ever tried a Volcano?! they're awesome.. it's like the first time you got high.. every time..), but even still those could have a spiritual source. I know you'll disagree.

For your affected motivation, memory, and concentration, I still think those could be spiritual issues. Yes weed brings out those effects in some people when they get high but I think a truly disciplined individual is able to control them, even later on in life, but even those particular issues are not really that undesirable at all if society weren't set up in a way that demanded one to be some sort of robotic slave, because they are actually some of the enjoyable effects of the drug itself. I mean if we didn't have these jobs to go to and all your life consisted of was sustaining and maintaining your home and your community, and figuring out what to do with all your leisure time, then none of those things would be a problem at all would they? I don't think so. Think what you want. It's even possible that your chest pains would not manifest in such a world.

Fact of the matter is, that I was disciplined, I made sure that I did all the reading, coursework, research, planning, rehearsal etc etc that my lifestyle requires, and it still happened. So maybe somewhere along the line I acquired 'spiritual issues' - but I fail to see how they were manifested through weed? I agree that a simpler approach to life would be good, but, realistically, how can some one do that unless they own a lot of land on which they could farm, hunt, fish, etc to support their family? Even that wouldn't allow as much leisure time as you would think.

Believe it or not, people who live in such an 'idyllic' way actually have serious hurdles to over come. Theey may not have access to medicine, or roads, and when some one becomes ill it can become life threatening much more easily. Is this still to do with some sort of spiritual issue?

I mean those particular aspects of your life shouldn't be affected anymore than they were when you first started smoking by the drug, so why are they now? Isn't it possible that as you grow up you face new challenges that you may not have had when you first started smoking, maybe some that you haven't even recognized yet and crept up on or maybe life and society are just taking it's toll so that you mistakenly blame the weed? You are getting older after all.

Drugs effects change over time as the body / mind get used to them. I no longer get the giggles for hours on end when I smoke, and nor does anyone else I know who smokes with any regularity. I think you are taking this whole 'blaming weed' thing a little far though, as that is not my point at all. I don't blame weed for anything, you make me sound like a prohibitionist :lol: . The reason I smoke is because I enjoy it, pure and simple, and even though the effects have changed some what over the years, I am still smitten by this plant.

I don't know how old you think i am, but I'm not a hell of a lot older than you are. Maybe challenges and life objectives have changed some what, and with that a renewed sense of perspective which does not require, or feel the need to use weed so often is the case?

And yes, I understand it was a metaphor but pointing that out doesn't make it not vague, and last time I checked school is a joke, so what's your point? Just what exactly do I need to graduate and move on to? And why? Because of chest pains? Which could have been from the tobacco! Lol! Idk I'm not saying you have all these problems, you sound like a real cool and motivated guy with the DJ thing, the night club, and the degree and everything, but that doesn't mean you don't have some spiritual sources that could be causing your physical ailments which you think have been directly caused by weed, and your unwillingness to subscribe to the notion could result in the source manifesting itself in another way in your life once you quit or moderate your usage of the drug, and the loss of your wonderful relationship with it based on false assumptions. I know plenty of older people that still smoke, some 50-60 years old, and they never complain about such things.

See my paragraph above about renewed sense of perspective I agree that tobacco could have been the cause for chest pains, but compared to the amount of weed smoked that is a negligable amount of tobacco, maybe 1/2 a cigarettes worth per day, and easily a couple of grammes of weed. My metaphor is not vague, while I agree that the syllabus is geared towards a certain goal, (getting you locked into a repetitive job etc etc) you should think about it like this maybe: life is one big lesson, we are constantly learning, growing and evolving, we learn from substances we take, we grow and we evolve, we move away from things that were once useful and / or novel, and grow into a new mode of being. You don't grow out of a pair of shoes and then go buy the exact same pair again and again do you? the same with a dull repetitive job, you quit and go find something more stimulating, until that gets boring etc etc, the metaphor fits well imo.

I full well know that certain aspects of my spiritual being need work, as does pretty much everyone else on the face of this planet, it is an ongoing thing - hence my continued exploration of the Spice coupled with meditation, prayer, and what ever other forms of practise I see fit at the time, these things change to fit my needs, and I am finding great success treating it that way. Weed was once a big part of that, but learning what I have needed from that plant, i now use it solely in a recreational way.

Anyway, I respect you not wanting to wanna smoke, I'm not trying to change your mind to go back and start blazin' it up, but idk just let me know what you think about what I just said if you'd like.. In ten years if I find out that I'm wrong like I said, I'll change my ways, but for right now, I still stand by what I say, and like I also said, I have my reasons.

You haven't changed my mind, but have provided some food for thought, so thank you on that basis I hope some of my answers have provided a more rounded insight into my opinion. I don't think it's about being 'right' or 'wrong' - with such a complex plant there are too many issues for such a dualistic approach. I just think that both the pros and cons should be laid out there in a fair and unbiased way, both in the good of harm reduction (be the harm spiritual or otherwise) and in the spirit of fair representation of such a powerful and multi faceted plant :d

 

[Serenity]

Matukuul, for a stoner like myself, you sure do enjoy arguing more than most. You often mention who is "right" or "wrong", but there is no such thing--especially with cannabis.

I think the important thing here, and why the argument is becoming stale for most, is Purges seems very much determined to lower the influence your ego is having on the argument, and in this case; I'd have to agree. It's clear that Purges is battling your ego, and you're battling what you think to be Purges ego.

I'm off to brew my first Ayahuasca. Enjoy your argument!

Deuces

 

[matukuul]

Matukuul, for a stoner like myself, you sure do enjoy arguing more than most. You often mention who is "right" or "wrong", but there is no such thing--especially with cannabis.

I think the important thing here, and why the argument is becoming stale for most, is Purges seems very much determined to lower the influence your ego is having on the argument, and in this case; I'd have to agree. It's clear that Purges is battling your ego, and you're battling what you think to be Purges ego.

I'm off to brew my first Ayahuasca. Enjoy your argument!

Deuces

Umm... Okay? I think this is the pot calling the kettle black as they say. Me and Purges are simply discussing opinions, maybe I'm a psychopath but I enjoy a nice discussion. It is a forum after all.. If anything seems argumentative, that's your subjective view. We clearly disagree over a particular matter, so yes while there is no such thing literally as 'right' and 'wrong' necessarily, one opinion may be more accurate than the other. That's all I'm saying, and I'm pretty sure the only time I used the terms right or wrong was when I was saying that in the future, if my opinion turned out to be the less accurate one, I would change my behavior accordingly. I'm glad you have an understanding of typical philosophical ideas, but the ego nonsense is so played out IMO (not that it's not valid but many people get too caught up in it). I hope yours got a nice boost with this post though.

Enjoy your Ayahuasca! Thanks for adding no relevant points whatsoever to the discussion/debate, whatever you want to call it, while simultaneously being condescending! And you think 'the influence of my ego needs lowered'.

Purges - I'll get back to you! I have to go pack for a festival, I'm leaving today! It's gonna be awesommeeee.. I might respond before I leave but if not I will when I get back. I feel on my next post I will be able to make my final points and we will be able to come to an agreement, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Kronas]

I had to comment on this thread. I am 23 and have smoked Cannabis for 8 years pretty steadily. Ingested on many occasions as well. Lets put this out there right now, *ANYTHING* can be misused. Too much water = death

Now for some logical scientific evidence and data.

<5 part series on Cannabis, please watch all 5 parts

As far as my personal history of using Cannabis, I would have to say that it has allowed me to break my social conditioning and programming beyond the shadow of a doubt. Smoking is slightly effective, however, oral ingestion, topically, and vaporizing seem to deliver more effective medication ( Cannabinoids. )


I have to add here, that WE ALL PRODUCE Cannabinoids in our bodies. The only other source of Canabinoids are in the RESINS of the Cannabis plant. We produce our Endocannabinoids through our bodies intake of Omega Fatty Acids (EFA's 3,6,& 9 ). Basically what I am saying is that we produce our own cannabis in us, if we fuel our production of it, we really have no use for the plants Phytocannabinoids...unless a person had a neurodegenerative disease or age-related illness etc. The ability for the Phyto-cannabinoids to heal and repair damage in our bodies is amazing!

Hemp Seed provides Omega Fatty Acids in perfect proportion for our body to absorb and use.

 

[polytrip]

Whaaaat? Is the discussion on whether cannabis is harmfull or not, still going on here?

Scientific studies show that cannabis IS addictive, that if used excessively, it does have a negative impact on cognitive functioning, short term memory etc.

The idea that these facts aren't real, and that if people experience these negative effects it's not caused by excessive cannabis use but because they haven't opened their third eye wide enough is just way beyond unreasonable and unrealistic.

If you want to defend your excessive cannabis use by saying that you don't have a problem yourself but that everyone around you (when they're complaining that you're late for work again, that you haven't paid some bills yet, or have forgotten to show-up at some family meeting for instance) has just not gotten his chakra's energised enough and lack spiritual devellopment because they're not hanging stoned on the couch all day like you, you are more or less demonstrating that it is having a very negative impact on you.

I would say that being addicted to something and diminishing your own psychological functioning by decreasing levels of important neurotransmitters in your brain (wich is what cannabis does) is about as far as you can stray from the 'path towards enlightenment'.

Cannabis can give a wonderfull psychedelic experience, absolutely on par with LSD if you use it only once in a while. But it's not a harmless drug, it's not one of the relative uncomplicated psychedelic's like DMT or mescaline.

And the more you use it, the less beneficial effects you will get out of it.

 

[matukuul]

Alright, I have some time.

Yes, I agree, everyone should be free to grow and consume it as they wish. If that was the case i would certainly have a grow room, and a variety of strains on the go. It may even help to pay the bills etc. I also agree that many people do over work, and put too much stock in a successful career these days. But, again, we are not forced to, we are still free to live how ever we like, and if you like expensive cars, clothes, jewellery etc then yes, you may have to enslave yourself to some degree to get that, but it is still a choice, so no, I don't think it was a silly thing to say

I disagree with you here, and I don't really care to elaborate but I will say that I do not believe it's much of a choice at all, and that while working in and of itself would not be a bad thing, the current system totally exploits the working class, which is nothing more than human livestock who's only purpose seems to be to sustain it's human farmer's fat ball. In the same way that farmers give cows larger stalls so they they will produce more milk, or plant their crops a certain distance apart so that they will get higher yields, so the human farmer allows his human livestock certain 'freedoms' which gives them the illusion that they are free, thus allowing them to produce more for the farmer (income tax, etc). So yea, fuck the system. It's so fuckin' bullshit in so many ways that it's not even funny, it's almost unfathomable.

I'm sorry but that is pure speculation. Period. There is no proof to back up a claim like that. There are many things that can cause these things, and yes maybe some are based on some sort of spiritual deficiency - certain forms of depression for instance.

Fair enough. I still have my beliefs..

Fact of the matter is, that I was disciplined, I made sure that I did all the reading, coursework, research, planning, rehearsal etc etc that my lifestyle requires, and it still happened. So maybe somewhere along the line I acquired 'spiritual issues' - but I fail to see how they were manifested through weed? I agree that a simpler approach to life would be good, but, realistically, how can some one do that unless they own a lot of land on which they could farm, hunt, fish, etc to support their family? Even that wouldn't allow as much leisure time as you would think.

Believe it or not, people who live in such an 'idyllic' way actually have serious hurdles to over come. Theey may not have access to medicine, or roads, and when some one becomes ill it can become life threatening much more easily. Is this still to do with some sort of spiritual issue?

Yes it is.

And I think that right now we have the resources and the means to feed, clothe, and house, every human being on the planet, with electricity and clean water. The infrastructure is already there.. All we would need is good people to figure out how to simplify it and strip it of it's government institutions, let the appropriate people take over all necessary Jobs that need to be maintained to keep power plants running, free of charge, the water plants running, free of charge, clothes in stores, free of charge, food in stores, free of charge, then all the people left over the from mindless repetitive jobs that will no longer be necessary to maintain for keeping us busy, and all of those individuals will have to find new and wonderful ways to express themselves and fulfill there lives. Probably by coming up with and creating wonderful things which will be easy to do with all the resources now freely available to the average person. I could go on but I won't.. You get the picture.

Drugs effects change over time as the body / mind get used to them. I no longer get the giggles for hours on end when I smoke, and nor does anyone else I know who smokes with any regularity. I think you are taking this whole 'blaming weed' thing a little far though, as that is not my point at all. I don't blame weed for anything, you make me sound like a prohibitionist :lol: . The reason I smoke is because I enjoy it, pure and simple, and even though the effects have changed some what over the years, I am still smitten by this plant.

I don't know how old you think i am, but I'm not a hell of a lot older than you are. Maybe challenges and life objectives have changed some what, and with that a renewed sense of perspective which does not require, or feel the need to use weed so often is the case?

I didn't really mean you blame it, like use it as an excuse subconsciously to hide your own issues, I think your smarter than that and I think you know what I meant so I think you're the one actually taking that a little too far. You also just said you no longer get the giggles for hours on end, and that you no longer require it, or feel the need to use it so often, so is it that or are you quitting because you feel it holds you back in someway physically or mentally?

See my paragraph above about renewed sense of perspective I agree that tobacco could have been the cause for chest pains, but compared to the amount of weed smoked that is a negligable amount of tobacco, maybe 1/2 a cigarettes worth per day, and easily a couple of grammes of weed. My metaphor is not vague, while I agree that the syllabus is geared towards a certain goal, (getting you locked into a repetitive job etc etc) you should think about it like this maybe: life is one big lesson, we are constantly learning, growing and evolving, we learn from substances we take, we grow and we evolve, we move away from things that were once useful and / or novel, and grow into a new mode of being. You don't grow out of a pair of shoes and then go buy the exact same pair again and again do you? the same with a dull repetitive job, you quit and go find something more stimulating, until that gets boring etc etc, the metaphor fits well imo.

I full well know that certain aspects of my spiritual being need work, as does pretty much everyone else on the face of this planet, it is an ongoing thing - hence my continued exploration of the Spice coupled with meditation, prayer, and what ever other forms of practise I see fit at the time, these things change to fit my needs, and I am finding great success treating it that way. Weed was once a big part of that, but learning what I have needed from that plant, i now use it solely in a recreational way.

That's the only way I use it, how else can you use it? And why did you quite again then? But your still using it I guess? So what your saying is you just changed your perspective while still using the substance? Hmm sounds like what I was talking about IMO, alleviating the spirit..

You haven't changed my mind, but have provided some food for thought, so thank you on that basis

Same to you, it's been fun.

If you want to defend your excessive cannabis use by saying that you don't have a problem yourself but that everyone around you (when they're complaining that you're late for work again, that you haven't paid some bills yet, or have forgotten to show-up at some family meeting for instance) has just not gotten his chakra's energised enough and lack spiritual devellopment because they're not hanging stoned on the couch all day like you, you are more or less demonstrating that it is having a very negative impact on you.

Whoa man, I don't have any problems in my life, so all I'm demonstrating is an example of what I preach, weed does not inhibit me whatsoever. You could ask any of my friends. I'm not defending my use, it doesn't need defense, and I'm not saying that if someone doesn't smoke weed that they are not as enlightened as me. I'm saying that if someone is truly experiencing negative effects from the good herb and they can't stop smoking it or abusing it for whatever reason they need to, it's not the herb, it's them and they would be doing themselves a favor to reflect on it. Yes quitting the weed will help alleviate the problem indirectly but to really heal the problem completely you need to understand the cause. If you quite weed but still have the same attitude that got you in the situation in which weed was affecting you negatively, then that will manifest in other areas of your life.

I would say that being addicted to something and diminishing your own psychological functioning by decreasing levels of important neurotransmitters in your brain (wich is what cannabis does) is about as far as you can stray from the 'path towards enlightenment'.

Well we're not talking about the path to enlightenment, and I'd like to see some tests, cause the negative effects such as cognitive functioning deficiencies, short term memory loss, and addiction are just subjective, and are the result of spiritual sources as I've been saying IMO. You ever seen Super High Me? He does fine on all the tests, cause he's a pro smoker.

And the more you use it, the less beneficial effects you will get out of it.

That's a given..

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I'm not sure if jumping back into this discussion is necessary or will add much to what has already been said, but I feel compelled to state some things that seem quite obvious.

As we grow and change on our life's journey our relationships to nearly everything in our lives change as well. Sometimes subtly, as in the case of appreciation of wines or the composition of the fabrics we choose to wear... sometimes sharply, as in the way most kids hate vegetables, but adults generally come to like or even love them.

The activities that resonate with us at certain stages of our lives are certainly this way. Our tastes in music tend to make dramatic shifts, and then progress gradually as we recognize which sounds suit different moods we tend to have. Nearly everything about us winds up evolving or taking quantum leaps over the course of a few decades. Why should it be any different with weed?

While one is in the middle of a healthy and beneficial relationship with cannabis, it can seem that the problems others might have with the plant are slightly ridiculous and somewhat inconceivable. That this weakness is solely a reflection of a lack of physical or spiritual fortitude. Meanwhile, those who can not consume grass in any significant quantities might find the justifications of those who can to be foolhardy bravado or naivité. Neither of these positions is 100% correct IME.

The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between and includes BOTH extremes. As someone who has been a raging stoner looking down on those who couldn't keep up with my superhuman intake, AND someone who currently is unable to consume more than a single bonghit without upending years of hard work... I have a somewhat nuanced view of it.

I don't feel that I suffered any serious cognitive effects from my decades of ridiculously extreme consumption. Without having a clone of me go through exactly my same set of life experiences and not use ganja as a control, it is impossible to say really. Who knows, I could actually be better off. Certainly, I am not intellectually challenged in the least... and while I have ZERO faith in any standardized testing, I did extremely well while higher than a kite.... higher than a kite on one of Neptune's moons. I am also, (thankfully) healthier than nearly all of the guys I went to school with. If I shave, people often think me 10 years younger than my actual chronological age.

Additionally, I am convinced that weed took the edge off of underlying anger and frustration issues that, like most young men, I had in spades. I wasn't ever a violent person, mind you. Years of martial arts training gave me a very reliable ability to channel my energies, stay grounded & level headed, and generally appear rather zen like. Still, I was angry inside. Who isn't pissed off when they see the utter mess people make of the world, but are still young enough that no one gives your opinions any real amount of respect? Being oppressed and belonging to marginalized fringe elements of society only strengthens that "warrior's resolve" that so many of us males understand all too well. I am convinced that my use of marijuana was an effective self-medication to combat anxieties and tensions that might otherwise have landed me in jail, physically broken, or even dead. I was a headstrong guy.

Having said all of that. From where I stand now, I see the highest places that weed ever took me as being below the vibrational and spiritual level that I wake up with naturally now. For this reason alone, consumption of weed is counter-productive for me. These days, I am largely free of negative emotions and have organized my life to be about as stress free as is possible within a western nation. (Thank the Universe!) As such, smoking weed for me now amounts to eating while full, or wearing sunscreen while indoors. Furthermore, the plant itself seemed to be pushing me away, and my highers self/ holy spirit/ friendly entities all made it clear that I needed to give up my lovely herb as a kind of sacrifice.

Harkening back to an earlier post, I actually kept my baby blanket/ security blanket well into my late teens. It was always on my bed, often prefered to any pillow, and I didn't like to wash it. (don't laugh) To be fair, my mother made it by hand, it was really cool looking, and beat the hell out of any afghan I have since come across. When I was in High School, I decided one day I needed to sacrifice it to seal ritualistically my entrance into another phase of life. So, I took it out in the backyard and burned it. [I still sometimes regret that, actually.] My feeling of missing weed is akin to the feeling I have of missing that blanket. I will never think either of my security blankets were anything other than the most loyal of loyal friends and servants.

Anyway, to wrap this up. I think the trying to reduce this thing to an either/ or situation or attempting to convert someone else to one's current understanding of the situation is pointless. It is what it is. Weed is not the devil. Weed is not eternally sacramental either. It is an unbelievably useful plant. One which has industrial uses that completely surmount and eclipse its more famous recreational and spiritual uses.

@ matukuul - Don't stop smoking weeed. Your natural urge for debate and confrontation at this stage could become ridiculously overbearing.

The rest of you. Forget what studies seem to show. I could show you 100's showing vastly different things. Also, I have never seen any studies that isolated men from women or only studied say 13-25 year old men (who are the ideal audience for ganja's blessings). Forget any anecdotal information. People need to be awake and self-responsible. Simply pay attention to how you actually feel and respond accordingly. If or when it becomes useful for you to not consume cannabis, you will know.

 

[universecannon]

"Do you like psychedelics but not weed?"

I wouldn't be the same person without weed, i love them both

I prefer to use it as a psychedelic though..by that i mean when tolerance is low, smoked in high amounts..

that said, i often go through times when i'm smoking it much moar frequently to

 

[imPsimon]

Both have their set positives and negatives but if I got to choose from using a psychedelic one more time in my life or smoke
as much cannabis as I want I'd go
with the psychedelic.

Although cannabis has it's positive effects, through my years of smoking the
negative effects far outweigh the positive ones.
That goes for the majority of all "smokers" I have ever met.

 

[christian]

It seems like for some Marijuana is simply one of the appetizers on the psychadelic menu of the journey of self discovery. It has it's times for use like everything else, but should not be overconsumed--> neither should bars of chocolate, or cream pies on the eating menu of eating discovery....

 

[greyberg]

To answer the original question. Yes.

 

[benzyme]

same.
weed is pretty much blah to me, whimsical and vapid.
psychs are vibrant, they have more substance.

 

[frost458]

I haven't the slightest interest in weed,

tried it once, didn't liked it, it just maked me feel "unbored"
tried it an other time, same thing.

I want to see thing that are not possible, I want to explore an unknown world.

 

[Kronas]

Cannabis is a homeostatic regulator of our Endocannabinoid system. If you do not like it, someone with Multiple Sclerosis might. Cannabis is not simply a "mild-psychedelic", it is a natural medicine that is intrinsically hardwired into our bodies systems. Anything that is mis or overused is not good for you. Practice moderation with everything, even moderation.

 

[Purges]

Cannabis is a homeostatic regulator of our Endocannabinoid system. If you do not like it, someone with Multiple Sclerosis might. Cannabis is not simply a "mild-psychedelic", it is a natural medicine that is intrinsically hardwired into our bodies systems. Anything that is mis or overused is not good for you. Practice moderation with everything, even moderation.

This :d

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Practice moderation with everything, even moderation.

Sounds like some good advice

 

[Serenity]

Cannabis is a homeostatic regulator of our Endocannabinoid system. If you do not like it, someone with Multiple Sclerosis might. Cannabis is not simply a "mild-psychedelic", it is a natural medicine that is intrinsically hardwired into our bodies systems. Anything that is mis or overused is not good for you. Practice moderation with everything, even moderation.

This :d

Word. Kudos to another very well written post by Hyperspace as well.