I always wondered (looking at it rationally) if people see Sumerian things, entities, or whatever because they read about others seeing that. One person could have had this experience and it mushroomed. Even if you don't intend to, it may lurk in your subconscious and manifest in the trip.
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Do you think there's an expectancy bias?
- Thread starter Harumi
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That may very well be the case. However, I don't think there's a way to prove it in any meaningful way, considering the nature of things we're discussing and trying to test.
I’m pretty sure that this is the case, my trips are heavily influenced by my observations and experiences prior to the trip. Although common themes do exist I’m not entirely sure if that originated from a shared culture or that certain thematic aspects are just there. It is an interesting topic that has been on my mind from time to time, what would happen if you were to stop using the lingo to describe the experience, would you still think about that place you go to as hyperspace? For me I have a very personal set of words to describe the experience and places that I go to. In my mind that makes sense and makes it more meaningful to me, hyperspace for example is a nice word but in my head it doesn’t really fit the places I visit.
Also this is why I don’t read trip reports.
If you’re interested you could read up on the ideas from Ludwig Wittgenstein and John Searle they have explored the ways language influences reality. And how language makes reality. From there on you may be interested in Hyperspace lexicon - DMT-Nexus Wiki.
It’s an interesting topic, good luck
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You should read the laser thread that'll give you a good answer you're leaning towards.
Kobranek
Established member
I feel we are tapping into the collective consciousness with these substances that defy explanation. Interestingly, I've experienced common themes others have before reading about it for me to later search for the meaning later on to be met with others who have shared something similar. I love reading trip reports without feeling like it affects future experiences.
I had a similar experience. My first psychedelic journey was with LSD and later when I joined the Nexus and started reading more about it, I found out that a lot of its peculiarities seem to be shared by many others.
I was not aware of the entity thing prior to trying DMT. I was not aware of people like Terence McKenna yet.. I’d read a few experiences on erowid but from memory a lot of those old trip reports I came across didn’t really talk of entities. I was just expecting a really really strong version of LSD.
And even going into experiences like LSD I had a completely different preconception of what that experience was going to be. I just expected colours and tracers, sound enhancement and electric eye candy. To then have Mayan/aztec-like patterns dripping down the walls with strange hieroglyph like characters was mindblowing for me. Tribal style patterns made of energy organizing themselves on my best friends face.. while his teeth glistened with diamonds as the light refracted off of them.
The explanation of the visions just being a manifestation of noise in my sub conscious falls short for me. There are many things floating in my sub conscious, such as the multitude of mundane things we deal with in day to day life. Why is media I consume, or the various chores I do on a daily basis not sown into the visions? The animals I see, the shops I go into, the car I drive.. all this stuff is generally omitted from the psychedelic experience and it always has a far more mystical quality.
I was an atheist growing up, with no interest at all in spiritual tradition, so this was quite a shock for me.
Why religious iconography suddenly becomes prevalent in these experiences is not well explained. But I can say for myself that the intelligence/entities in the DMT experience came as a surprise and I haven’t really found the reductionist explanation for them particularly compelling.
And even going into experiences like LSD I had a completely different preconception of what that experience was going to be. I just expected colours and tracers, sound enhancement and electric eye candy. To then have Mayan/aztec-like patterns dripping down the walls with strange hieroglyph like characters was mindblowing for me. Tribal style patterns made of energy organizing themselves on my best friends face.. while his teeth glistened with diamonds as the light refracted off of them.
The explanation of the visions just being a manifestation of noise in my sub conscious falls short for me. There are many things floating in my sub conscious, such as the multitude of mundane things we deal with in day to day life. Why is media I consume, or the various chores I do on a daily basis not sown into the visions? The animals I see, the shops I go into, the car I drive.. all this stuff is generally omitted from the psychedelic experience and it always has a far more mystical quality.
I was an atheist growing up, with no interest at all in spiritual tradition, so this was quite a shock for me.
Why religious iconography suddenly becomes prevalent in these experiences is not well explained. But I can say for myself that the intelligence/entities in the DMT experience came as a surprise and I haven’t really found the reductionist explanation for them particularly compelling.
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Terence McKenna popularized the idea of machine elves. Many people speak of them. I haven't seen anything that I'd describe in that way in all my journeys. I didn't even know who Terence McKenna was before doing DMT.
Power of suggestion is a real phenomenon, both internally and externally.
Now the insectoid apparatus I saw the other day, I don't feel was influenced by anything
One love
Power of suggestion is a real phenomenon, both internally and externally.
Now the insectoid apparatus I saw the other day, I don't feel was influenced by anything
One love
I remember the first time I was told about these theories by a phd who was researching how language was responsible for the outcome of complex projects, and who was also a poet. That changed my whole perception on language and reality. Language has become something magical to me, especially since I’ve never had a natural talent for it, yet now it’s something I crave. I’m also fascinated by those who seem to have completely mastered this art. Or those who have the ability to create poetry that in an instant can change your world and touch your soul.@Varallo you better start reading my reports jk
Love that you recommended Wittgenstein given what you'd said about language.
One love
Yeah, I'm not really sure about whether the spider made of colourful geometric shapes which gave me an impromptu yoga lesson was a product of expectation per se, but I do have well over a decades worth of exposure to children's building blocks and definitely needed to - still need to - stretch more.
In that sense it's quite probably a useful effect whether one calls it expectation or not.
In that sense it's quite probably a useful effect whether one calls it expectation or not.
Mechanism
Established member
No concrete proof, but I believe a friend of mine and I had a shared hallucination while under the influence of Syrian Rue + ACRB. We didn't find out until we compared notes after coming down.
At one point during the experience he went into the bathroom to purge. He told me that while he was in there he looked down at his hands, which appeared small with thin fingers like a baby's, and got the sense that he had been born again.
Meanwhile in the living room I had fallen into a trance and was repeatedly muttering "We are born, we are born, we are born..." under my breath (there was no way he could have heard me). While this was happening, I looked down at my hands and saw that they had become small with stubby fingers, like a baby's.
It seems as though we had simultaneously experienced two similar but slightly different hallucinations to represent the same idea.
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Kobranek
Established member
I've seen the self dribbling basketballs that Terrence speaks of to later see his description. It transitioned to a waiting room with two entities: an old man and a beautiful African woman in what looked like a traditional garb. They were looking at me like they knew what my kind was and the man asked me, "Can I help you son? Are you looking for something?" I said, "yes, healing!"Terence McKenna popularized the idea of machine elves. Many people speak of them. I haven't seen anything that I'd describe in that way in all my journeys. I didn't even know who Terence McKenna was before doing DMT.
Power of suggestion is a real phenomenon, both internally and externally.
Now the insectoid apparatus I saw the other day, I don't feel was influenced by anything
One love
They both looked at me and started laughing. The man said, "why are you looking to us for something that you are completely capable of on your own? You don't need us for that!"
I can tell the man and woman were working on something very important and didn't want to further interrupt them. The beautiful woman started to move in a way that was extenuating her hair, smooth skin on her face, and her garb.
Mechanism
Established member
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IME, whatever you carry in your mind will infuse your experience, however, in the case that you do a proper isolated healing diet retreat with consecutive ceremonies, each experience will clear your mind of BS and the experience will get purer and purer. Just the second day ceremony is worlds apart from the first day. Doing it properly is not easy as it requires eating a proper diet and no social activity and no smartphone or computers... İt needs total dedication. İn short, unless you approach it in the most sacred way, you will not experience much outside of the clutter of your own mind, IMHO. Of course, it still has healing value.
Kobranek
Established member
Straight smoked dmt. Back when I was actually smoking it in bowls versus vaping it. Since then I've swore off smoking dmt after a night of hurting my lungs from too many sessions back to back and couldn't smoke weed the following day.Sounds similar to an NDE.What did you ingest to bring this on?
Mechanism
Established member
You didn't inadvertently suffocate yourself did you? I like to read about/listen to people's accounts of NDEs and that sort of thing usually seems to happen when people drown or go into cardiac arrest. Is this is a common thing? I've never actually inhaled plain old DMT before.