Dynavap - the new replacement for Vaporgenie?

[fathomlessness]

Surprisingly not a lot of talk about these on this forum despite their massive popularity in cannabis culture. I've compared the two over a number of years and can give pros and cons in relation to the vaporgenie.

Pros:

1) Not needing to hold it up to your face with a lighter for 10 seconds, unlike the vaporgenie.

2) Heats it to a perfect temperature (350-420f/180-200c) every time without fail via the *click* sound. can go higher or lower if desired.

3) Has the option to include screen coil for concentrates and crystals

4) Can be used without a flame via and induction heater (most people make their own but there are marketed varieties on offer)

5) Can be used more discretely in that you can heat the cap lying on your side away from others, or in a backpack. Once hot enough and ready to draw it looks like kind of like an e-cig pen or cigar from a distance and most of your hand fits over it anyway.

6) Comes made to be combined with waterpipes via the 14mm rounded edge at the tip which ultimately makes for a smoother experience than vaporgenies uncooled pipes

7) More portable than a pipe, it fits in your pocket along with a jet lighter.

8 ) Is not made of glass and is idiot-proof to dropping it.

Cons:

1) Hot tip is exposed for ~15 seconds after heating and could singe someone if not careful

2) Doesn't have the ol wooden pipe feel

3) Perhaps couldn't hear click in noisy environments

4) Lower airflow than vaporgenie (have to suck it a bit more)

[YOUTUBE]

 

[Tony6Strings]

I'm of the opinion that the gvg is the ultimate device for administering a dose of DMT. If mine ever breaks I will order another right away without a single thought about about any other device, and consider it $100+ well spent. I'm sure this thing is great but I doubt it will be replacing the vapor genie.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Fathomlessness,

Surprisingly not a lot of talk about these on the forums despite their massive popularity in cannabis culture.

IMO one major keyword about forums is just that, popularity, and i can testify it's not always for the benefit of masses since social content eclipses rational reasoning only to favour questionable credentials. The same as it happens in most other organisations there's progress done at 1st then crystalization occurs which remind us of the Peter syndrome where further advancement gradually invites more failures. For example the quest in e-Cig designs for monster clouds makes it easy to forget these were supposed to be cessation tools in the begining, rather than a lifestyle display totally disconnected from the century-old smoker habit of our ancestors.

I've compared the two over a number of years and can give pros and cons in relation to the vaporgenie.

Most unfortunately a major feature found in the original VaporGenie patent registered by Dan Steinberg, a couple years after Y2K (...), was never actually implemented though this could have bridged the gap with today's electromagnetic Induction Heat competition: i'm refering to the Fig. 11/12 item which would conveniently turn into a susceptor with little effort. The concept is sound and yet it's been consistently rejected by those very same forums you previously mentioned as a reference...

Pros:

The amount of energy wasted over a DynaVap VapCap seems grotesque to me, while using a yellow flame with the VaporGenie implies disadvantages of its own. Implementation of Steinberg's long forgotten item allowed me to switch to blue "jet" flames which in turn make it possible to inject enough Heat Charge in a matter of 2 ~ 3 seconds at most. Doing so tames down exposure to potential "impurities" emanating from the lighter and butane can on top of being less obvious in a dark environment, making the pipe more stealthy in addition to giving access to a radically different consumption method and ritual. This also minimizes discomfort from keeping a flame close to the user's nose to a point it no longer bothers me; using some tubing extension enhances the situation and provides an opportunity to insert light cotton filtering in the path which captures dust, accumulates moisture and even comes with provisions for eventual biofeedback functions.

Heats it to a perfect temperature (350-420f/180-200c) every time without fail via the *click* sound.

What's being perceived as a valuable asset today is actually a conceptual designer trap blocking the path to a more efficient energy budget. Please consider engaging into my challenge to Duplicate & Peer Review in order to get some fresh new perspective on the subject.

Has the option to include screen coil for concentrates and crystals

In all honesty i must admit i'm exclusively devoted to cannabis trichomes, but yet see no significant limitation related to concentrates or crystals as it's only a matter of matching the amount of temporarily-stored energy to it's workload in my particular context; hence transition to IH-driving would only increase accuracy on top of replicability, toke after toke. And since it's possible to precisely define energy storage capacity as a function of the susceptor's own specific heat capacity, mass and ceiling (Curie-effect) temperature that's expected to eliminate hesitations leading to operator errors. In a word you ain't seen anything yet as long as the digital equivalent of a VaporGenie awaits to be put in practice.

Can be used without a flame via an induction heater...

As a matter of fact a Bi-Energy "LAVACapsule" Hybrid Core has been generously illustrated and tested over the years, too bad "Plan-B" was presented by Egzoset who ain't really "popular" on social forums... So beware, someday my challenge will be taken seriously and when it finally happens DynaVap's present strategy may appear to be a concrete wall stopping further enthousiasm. For example a DynaVap already wastes half its energy by radiating it outside, in comparison a VG can have all its heat contained withing some Hybrid Core while on temporary standby. Additionally, in terms of ritual that core has been tweaked until it's become difficult to differentiate such vaporist pipe from an ordinary one, now imagine if IH-driven, with total safety for human skin as a bonus...

...made to be combined with waterpipes via the 14mm rounded edge at the tip which ultimately makes for a smoother experience than vaporgenies uncooled pipes

Once again i challenge such statement considering the VaporGenie generates its own moisture while multiple PinHoles along the path take care of conditioning on top of causing a major shift of dynamics when using my Hybrid Core model. Which means there's zero glass to break while the pipe is already compatible with future moisturization scenarios based either on distilled water or possibly even e-Liquids (using an auxiliary IH-driven boiler/evaporator - a droplet or two will suffice).

More portable than a pipe, it fits in your pocket along with a jet lighter.

Although this may sound true today the lack of a properly rationalized energy budget shall kick in eventually and then the need to stick to DynaVap's clicking feature might very well prove problematic in terms of evolution.

Doesn't have the ol wooden pipe feel

Wood may be a fashionable asset using Induction Heat but right now i much prefer full-metal tops still having to deal with blue flame torches. Let future tell which is best.

Perhaps couldn't hear click in noisy environments

M'well, i believe failure to exploit Curie alloys when depending on an IH driver is one major reason why DynaVap users still require those clicking sounds in the 1st place.

Back to mid-November 2011 most people would have supported the opinion of MagicFlight about Induction Heat being innefficient and just too complex - e.g. impractical & unworthy... By chance it appears such times are meant to pass, and quite similarily i predict DynaVap's present concept is already heading for some solid wall of its own.

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[VibeSurfer]

Might have to get one for weed.

 

[Wolfnippletip]

Interesting item and design Fathomlessness. I was unaware of it but have now watched several videos. Exactly which model and accessories do you use for DMT? Do you use the Titanium Coil accessory?

 

[DeeMenTalist]

I'm of the opinion that the gvg is the ultimate device for administering a dose of DMT.

Agree. But since OP mentioned wood, I guess fathomlessness meant that classic wooden pipe. In this case it might be a good alternative. Nevertheless, GVG is the best!! 8)

 

[fathomlessness]

IMO one major keyword about forums is just that, popularity, and i can testify it's not always for the benefit of masses since social content eclipses rational reasoning only to favour questionable credentials.

Very nicely said and precisely how I feel about the view of the vaporgenie on the dmt-nexus. It has become such a icon on here and caught on by so many because of people idolizing it when it reality there are so many better vapes out there that have way better functionality, efficiency, portability, compatibility with waterpipes etc.

The amount of energy wasted over a DynaVap VapCap seems grotesque to me.

It seems to me Dynavaps have way less wasted energy than a vaporgenie through the use of an induction heater via either a powered battery back or 12v power adapter (which is not using butane at all). That being said, I am not an engineer, it just seems intuitive to think so seeing that I charge my induction heater from a renewable energy source (solar panels) wheras you rely on humans to mine oil in order to light your vaporgenie. Also, If you do decide to use a jet butane lighter then you arent inhaling straight from the flame unlike the vaporgenie (which isn't a problem anyway as there aren't issues unless you buy really dirty butane canister.)

Nevertheless a lot of forum members on here are using jet lighters for their vaporgenies anyway, so it is a bit of a moot point.

You have a valid point about it offering a different kind of "ritual", but each vape has its own ritualistic feel. It's just about whether some people will trade off that ritualistic feel for other things like ease of use, lighterlessness, efficiency, stealth, combination with water pipes etc.

DynaVap already wastes half its energy by radiating it outside, in comparison a VG can have all its heat contained withing some Hybrid Core while on temporary standby.

I don't believe this is the case. The titanium dynavaps retains just as much heat as the core of VG's in my experience. It uses the previous heat load to obtain a faster heat up time (can be within 2-3 seconds after a previous hit). This makes it more efficient than the vaporgenie which, while it also heats up from the previous load, still requires butane to be burned to create convection heating, unlike the Dynvap which uses some of the previous heat + milliamperages on an induction heater.

Once again i challenge such statement considering the VaporGenie generates its own moisture while multiple PinHoles along the path take care of conditioning on top of causing a major shift of dynamics when using my Hybrid Core model. Which means there's zero glass to break while the pipe is already compatible with future moisturization scenarios based either on distilled water or possibly even e-Liquids (using an auxiliary IH-driven boiler/evaporator - a droplet or two will suffice).

It's a long shot to claim that the moisture a vaporgenie generates is anywhere near as comparable to proper water filtration. Even small portable water filter devices like the scorpion would provide better conditioning.

Most unfortunately a major feature found in the original VaporGenie patent registered by Dan Steinberg, a couple years after Y2K (...), was never actually implemented though this could have bridged the gap with today's electromagnetic Induction Heat competition: i'm refering to the Fig. 11/12 item which would conveniently turn into a susceptor with little effort. The concept is sound and yet it's been consistently rejected by those very same forums you previously mentioned as a reference...

There are no figures you have attatched, I have no idea what you are referring to. No offense, but your sentences started off really eloquently^^ ("social content eclipses rational reasoning only to favour questionable credentials") and now they are written quite strange, technical and irratic with little explanation as to what you are talking about. The only forum I was referring to was the DMT nexus... it was rejected by the nexus? There is also no information about "peter syndrome" i could find anywhere on google, could you please reference it and explain a bit more simply what you mean?

 

[fathomlessness]

I'm of the opinion that the gvg is the ultimate device for administering a dose of DMT.

Agree. But since OP mentioned wood, I guess fathomlessness meant that classic wooden pipe. In this case it might be a good alternative. Nevertheless, GVG is the best!! 8)

Interesting item and design Fathomlessness. I was unaware of it but have now watched several videos. Exactly which model and accessories do you use for DMT? Do you use the Titanium Coil accessory?

Sorry guys, I should of clarified that I have used both glass and wood. With the dynavap I have the titanium coil accessory but also works fine with changa herb in the bowl and fits about a standard bowl size of material (although it looks smaller than it is). The inside condenser tube can be taken out and cleaned with IPA or Acetone for your DMT oil reclaim.

Important to not knock which is ultimate before trying when a variety of other factors come in to play for many people. For me, I have given up on the vaporgenie range because:
-I was afraid of shattering it by taking it outside and couldn't easily carry it in my pocket.
-Couldn't combine it with my water pipes (which is a lot of fun for me and makes the vapor super cool and almost non-existent which meant I could rip more, unlike the warmness of the vaporgenie, which I'll admit is still quite smooth when used correctly)
-Wanted a unit that would just reach a consistent temperature and not have to worry about getting the flame distance right to heat it up etc.
-Always having to keep and use a lighter near or around my face.
-A need to be discrete outdoors in semi-public areas on lower doses-like on the top of a nice hill for sunset.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again,

...I have no idea what you are referring to.

...I have given up on the vaporgenie...

Good enough. Although i stand by everything i wrote there's no need to insist.

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[coAsTal]

I'm of the opinion that the gvg is the ultimate device for administering a dose of DMT. If mine ever breaks I will order another right away without a single thought about about any other device, and consider it $100+ well spent. I'm sure this thing is great but I doubt it will be replacing the vapor genie.

^^This.

I'm on my second GVG (I broke my first one a few years ago and had a replacement on the way the next day)

The GVG is as close to flawless as a manual vape can get, period.

The electronic devices are toys in comparison-- but if you like them, that's swell.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations coAsTal,

The GVG is as close to flawless as a manual vape can get, period.

Wrong twice, the VaporGenie core is nearly 20 years old and i've already demonstrated how it could evolve towards precise metered dosing many years ago, potentially to even dominate the scene by being made totally inclusive in terms of the user's own skills and so much more.

The electronic devices are toys in comparison...

Too vague a comment. Although it's OKay to perceive some futility in most electricity-based deviced it turns out the DynaVap VapCap could have an edge if it could just evolve as well. By supplying self-moisturization the same as a VaporGenie, for example... After all Dan Steinberg never patented his own Hybrid Core in combination with IH-driving, only fire as far as i can tell.

Clean-burning butane is fine even in the kitchen but it doesn't mean there are no concerns on the long run, hence my opinion that governments truly concerned with public health should impose a transition to butane gas of biological origin rather than mineral. In any case i can't imagine how the VG pipe fitted with an Hybrid Core eventually powered by Induction Heat would represent any risk even in the eye of a reasonable purist, except going that route would put it on the very same level as other mediocre products depending on Hot Dry Air alone for their Release/Transport agent, while also loosing the exceptional benefit from extra-hot inlet H2O as a "potentiator"...

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[skoobysnax]

I'm of the opinion that the gvg is the ultimate device for administering a dose of DMT. If mine ever breaks I will order another right away without a single thought about about any other device, and consider it $100+ well spent. I'm sure this thing is great but I doubt it will be replacing the vapor genie.

^^This.

I'm on my second GVG (I broke my first one a few years ago and had a replacement on the way the next day)

The GVG is as close to flawless as a manual vape can get, period.

The electronic devices are toys in comparison-- but if you like them, that's swell.

You probably have not tried direct emesh. Hands down 100% my favored method and I love my GVG. 30mg breakthrough with ease and nothing left on the mesh after a single hit. Lots of innovation here. Direct e-mesh method howto step by step with images and video - Vaping/Smoking - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[coAsTal]

You two can love on your devices if you want-- that's OK.
It's great they are good for you.

You can talk down to others and insist we're maybe wrong for "not getting" that your choice is superior by repeating technical specs on your devices.

If it makes you feel better, no problem.

It's good to have options.

But please don't act as though I'm unable to "get" why you think your devices are "better"-- I can read your posts just fine, and I still disagree with you.

Have a great day!

 

[fathomlessness]

I agree with coastal that it can only ever be subjective but it is also important not to just give an opinion about y when the topic is about the alternative x and when you havent prefaced that you haven't tried x, for, it gives the uninformed opinion that y is superior. Similar to how politicians make laws against psychedelics without trying them. What should of preceded your comments is "I have never tried the dynavap, but i love the vaporgenie".

As Egzoset has said "social content eclipses rational reasoning only to favour questionable credentials" which I related to the view of the vaporgenie on the dmt-nexus. It has become such a icon on here and caught on by so many because of people idolizing it (and for a good reason), when it reality there are so many other vapes out there that offer either greater functionality, efficiency, portability, compatibility with waterpipes etc. It is important to consider alternatives as time goes on in order to grow and adapt, rather than just idolize one item.

 

[fathomlessness]

Hi again,

...I have no idea what you are referring to.

...I have given up on the vaporgenie...

Good enough. Although i stand by everything i wrote there's no need to insist.

Good day, have fun!! 8)

Please don't feel like you have to insist, that wasn't my intention. I was just asking you to clarify a number of things you were saying that didn't make sense and figures that you referred to that weren't even there. That is ok though, i'm fine with being ignored.

 

[Tony6Strings]

Question. Using the dynavap, can you administer a 50 mg dose in one inhalation?

 

[Egzoset]

I was just asking you to clarify a number of things you were saying that didn't make sense and figures that you referred to that weren't even there.

You were acting and i've already been too generous with my free spare time, wasting it over mirror games and such. Just duplicate the linked experiments 1st if you dare risk facing ridicule, then perhaps you may earn some right to comment as you have. Anyway it doesn't really matter to me that none of it won't exist inside your own limited bubble.

Learn to share the fun without the "social" interference instead of breaking the toys of others.

...

 

[Egzoset]

Show me the [ IGNORE ] button so i can reject all the junk.

 

[fathomlessness]

Show me the [ IGNORE ] button so i can reject all the junk.

I think you should asses your approach on this forum. We are trying to learn share and expand here. When someone asks for clarification or points out things that may seem false or lacking in explanation, don't just ignore them and/or ridicule them for it. The way forums work is that someone replies with a response which the other person responds to either with advice, opinion or knowledge. I did exactly that about the nature of efficiency and yet was met with being ignored.

I also am not trying to 'break the toys of others', rather simply offer an alternative to something that I see room for improvement for and in a way that is respectful. Instead, the thread has been marred and jolted by responses that are rude and largely off-track.

I was just asking you to clarify a number of things you were saying that didn't make sense and figures that you referred to that weren't even there.

You were acting and i've already been too generous with my free spare time, wasting it over mirror games and such. Just duplicate the linked experiments 1st if you dare risk facing ridicule, then perhaps you may earn some right to comment as you have. Anyway it doesn't really matter to me that none of it won't exist inside your own limited bubble.

Learn to share the fun without the "social" interference instead of breaking the toys of others.
...

It is not clear what you mean by saying 'I was acting'? Is english your first language by curiosity? Again, i search for 'mirror games' and get nothing. Would be great if you explain yourself a bit more thoroughly.

 

[fathomlessness]

Question. Using the dynavap, can you administer a 50 mg dose in one inhalation?

This... is the milliondolar question :lol:

I would think it most probably is the case that dynavaps are more for sub-breakthrough hitters (which i think a lot of people use the vaporgenie for anyway) but pure convection heating would always win over in the end with larger doses. I envisage that DMT may leak down the condenser tube over time with larger hits and this may be problematic for people who transition from weed to DMT regularly. Nevertheless it is hard to know if this is actually true until people respond with information.