Research e-juasca? 🌱🌿⚡

[Loveall]

I'm testing DMT and Harmala citrate salts in PG/VG for aerosol administration with an electronic e-juice device.

I believe I used a Harmine and THH mix from a standard rue extraction and harmaline zinc power conversion. Small chance that the harmaline was not converted (because I didn't get to it) but I believe it was if memory serves.

Here are the mass ratios I used:1xDMT FB:1xHarmala FB:0.9xCitric Acid:3xPG:1xVG.

I simply mixed it all except citric acid in a bottom round thick glass in a hot water bath. Harmala FB would not go into solution. Citric acid was added slowly until everything dissolved, at which point the pH turned out to be neutral.

The mix started out red and clear, however after it cooled overnight it was a little cloudy, but still seems to work fine. Aerosolized at 25W with a Zeus nano tank (0.6 Ohm). Taste was pleasant with no harshness or lip numbing. I just dipped my toes, so far effects are nice. Can't say for sure if it is similar to changa, need moar tests.

Image of potential e-juasca below. It came out red for me. Harmalas and DMT were pretty clean, perhaps red is a normal color for Harmala salts in PG/VG, IDK. After dissolving and warm it was clear, but after cooling some cloudiness can be noted which is not ideal, but still seems to work fine.

Warning on vaping citric acid: it can break down at 175C into smaller organic acids, some of which may cause an allergic reaction as mentioned here. Each person is free to make their own choice on pursuing this if interested.

Will report on future tests. I plan a longer session soon

 

[Loveall]

After two days the e-juasca from the previous post congealed to a solid. Nothing crashed which is good, but it has become un-vapable since it won't wick properly. Ooops!

Will try again with VG set to 0 and report back.

 

[Woolmer]

Hi Loveall, I have been reading most of your posts on the e-juice and salts of late. I always found that with e-juice I struggle to hold my breath long enough to absorb all of the vapor, so lots escape once I breathe out and my trips could never go very far. This was with FB and at a 1:1 ratio with e-juice that was I think 60/40 pg/vg. Do you not find it difficult to "zero" the vapor?

 

[Loveall]

Hi Loveall, I have been reading most of your posts on the e-juice and salts of late. I always found that with e-juice I struggle to hold my breath long enough to absorb all of the vapor, so lots escape once I breathe out and my trips could never go very far. This was with FB and at a 1:1 ratio with e-juice that was I think 60/40 pg/vg. Do you not find it difficult to "zero" the vapor?

I too can't usually zero the vapor, only on the smaller hits. Still works

 

[Loveall]

After two days the e-juasca from the previous post congealed to a solid. Nothing crashed which is good, but it has become un-vapable since it won't wick properly. Ooops!

Will try again with VG set to 0 and report back.

I added a few drops of water and the opaque e-juice is flowing nicely again. Dipped my toes with a few shy hits over 10 minutes. Good stuff. It's subjective but I felt the Harmalas changing the experience, pleasant body sensations, slower come up, lasting longer than DMT alone.

Will need a more intense session to gain confidence, but so far so good.

Still need to update the ratios to not have the congealing issue. Good to know it can be corrected with water drops if it happens again.

 

[Loveall]

More testing with the previous e-juice gave good changa-like experience.

On top of that, I have tinkered the ratios to avoid the cloudiness:

DMT FB :Harmala FB :Citric acid:PG:Distilled Water
1:1:0.9:4:0.4

Resulting e-juice does not have cloudiness and the viscosity feels right. Has a dark color and looks a little bit like blood.

 

[Loveall]

Update: after 24h there is a tiny bit of precipitation on the 1:1:0.9:4:0.4 ratio of DMT FB : Harmala FB: Citric acid : PG : Water.

Gonna try new ratios and will report back. Shooting for no cloudiness, although the cloudy ratio from the first post was effective. Wanna avoid the possibility of clogging the atomizer over time.

 

[Loveall]

Using this e-juice has resulted in vivid dreams at night.

Has anyone experienced intense visual dreams after using changa or similar? It's been a few days like this after the last session.

 

[Loveall]

Update: after 24h there is a tiny bit of precipitation on the 1:1:0.9:4:0.4 ratio of DMT FB : Harmala FB: Citric acid : PG : Water.

Gonna try new ratios and will report back. Shooting for no cloudiness, although the cloudy ratio from the first post was effective. Wanna avoid the possibility of clogging the atomizer over time.

Ok, so I'm struggling with this. Harmalas always end up crashing over time. I have tried fumarate too and more water, but same result.

Need ideas/help. Hoping to get near 20% harmala concentration so this is practical. Which salt would be more likely to succeed?

I guess harmala HCl may be out since it crashes out of water when too many Cl- ions are present? Maybe this is the issue on the e-juice in general with harmalas: I'm getting "mansked" in PG when going for +20% concentration? It's always the same thing: harmalas dissolve when heating, then hours after cooling harmalas crash in the e-juice. Very "manske" like.

Any known harmala salts that don't manske and/or are soluble well beyond the 20% mark (I'm assuming water as a proxy for PG which may be wrong). How about Harmala acetate?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

While I can't speak from experience, the acetate seems worth a try. If nothing else, it's easy to prepare. You could even see if harmala freebase dissolves into PG/VG/acetic acid mixture.

Another idea that crossed my mind is to store the e-juice at as warm a temperature as practicable, preventing the crystallisation that way.

 

[Loveall]

While I can't speak from experience, the acetate seems worth a try. If nothing else, it's easy to prepare. You could even see if harmala freebase dissolves into PG/VG/acetic acid mixture.

Another idea that crossed my mind is to store the e-juice at as warm a temperature as practicable, preventing the crystallisation that way.

Thanks, I'll give the acetate a try. This is what I'm thinking:

DMT FB:Harmala FB (1 to 1 ratio), dissolve in a small amount of white vinegar, dry over a fan. Expect a goo which may be tricky to handle. Try to dissolve the goo in PG

 

[Loveall]

Side note: tested harmala HCl solubility in PG (~20%). Same issue as citrate, dissolves when heated but crashed when cooled

Will try acetate next and update.

 

[dreamer042]

For what it's worth, when I was fiddling with e-juices years ago and having trouble getting cannabis oil to dissolve in them, I added just a tiny bit of ethanol and it worked wonders.

 

[Loveall]

Thanks dreamer.

Also, I found this:

FlowingVisions : Pure Harmaline 1 oz Glycerite Tincture extracted from Peganum harmala (Syrian rue)

It's harmaline acetate in VG/water, 1:10 ratio for FB equivalent. Should be easy to reproduce and try with PG and THH.

So there is hope for e-juasca

 

[Loveall]

Tested harmala acetate. Doesn't dissolve that well. Needed a lot of water, doesn't seem practical.

Got HPBCD to dissolve, but at a 1:1 molar ratio is too dilute by weight.

I can't find a salt that dissolves well in PG.

 

[SpaceShaman]

Using this e-juice has resulted in vivid dreams at night.

Has anyone experienced intense visual dreams after using changa or similar? It's been a few days like this after the last session.

Recently, I have been traveling quite often using regular d-juice and I have had much more colorful and crazy dreams, even after many days of break from vaping. Interestingly, a few days ago I was vaping d-juice in the morning and then around noon I took a short 30-minute nap and during this nap I ended up in the same place as during the morning vaping. Had I really gone there again, or had I just dreamed about this place? I do not know

 

[The Traveler]

I tried the following with lactic acid:

1. Take half a gram of rue extract.
2. Added 5ml of PG.
3. Heated it up to 70C+.
4. Added half a ml of 80% lactic acid (twice what was needed).
5. Let it be at that heat for about half an hour, stirring it at times.

This is how it started:




And this is the end result:




I will let it settle, then decant the liquid and let the remainder dry to check how much harmala-lactate is left behind (and thus roughly how much is dissolved into the e-liquid).


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Transform]

Looks like at least some of the harmala solid has dissolved - wonder if it's preferential? Presuming you've used a 'natural' - unspecified? - H/DHH blend, we ought to see if one or the other went into solution more easily. I guess this can be tried again with the undissolved material and fresh PG - what was your calculation for the stoichiometry, and have you titrated the lactic acid in any way?

 

[The Traveler]

what was your calculation for the stoichiometry, and have you titrated the lactic acid in any way?

# Constants
molecular_weight_harmine = 212.25 # g/mol
molecular_weight_lactic_acid = 90.08 # g/mol
mass_harmine = 1.0 # gram

# Calculate moles of harmine
moles_harmine = mass_harmine / molecular_weight_harmine

# Assuming a 1:1 molar ratio, moles of lactic acid needed is the same as moles of harmine
moles_lactic_acid_needed = moles_harmine

# Calculate mass of lactic acid needed
mass_lactic_acid_needed = moles_lactic_acid_needed * molecular_weight_lactic_acid
mass_lactic_acid_needed = 0.4244051825677267

(so as you can see when I poured in the lactic acid I actually had forgotten that I only used half a gram of rue extract )


As for titration: I dropped the lactic acid in fairly fast, all within a few seconds.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Transform]

As for titration: I dropped the lactic acid in fairly fast, all within a few seconds

Ah, more it was meant, had you ascertained its percentage concentration, besides what was listed on the label?

All the same, it seems you used some considerable excess of even 80% lactic acid.

Incidentally, the ratios of the MWs provide a short cut for the stoichiometry calculation, since some things appear in both equations that cancel out when the two are combined, and all you really need to do is divide the MW of lactic acid by that of harmine, and multiply by the mass of harmine used: (90.08/212.25)*0.5=0.212203g lactic acid required...
Of course, this can be corrected using the inverse of the percentage of the acid: (100/80)*0.212203=0.265279g
and then adjusted according to the density of the acid if the percentage is w/v rather than w/w - but I don't have a figure for that!

And I do now wonder if the lactate needs to be formed before the PG is added.