Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide (by gibran2)

[Serenity]

Hey guys,

I need a cheap way to extract from some left over Caapi vine to infuse in Changa with only Peppermint/Mint leaf as the base (no funds for Caapi leaves at the moment). I've researched Gibran2's Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide, and searched the forum for answers to my wondering if I could use Calcium Hydroxide (lime) instead of NaOH?

Please point me in the right direction if this answer is already provided elsewhere.

Thanks

 

[billydgator]

My friend took some of his red caapi vines, crushed them up, and soaked them in acetone in a covered jar (also had some powdered passionflower in it as well) for a week.
He then took some mint, mullein, pau d arco, mugwort, harmaline, and spice and soaked them in the red caapi enhanced acetone. The result was an acetone juice that was red, like plum juice or something, the color was transferred into the herb, to make some beautiful looking, potent changa.
Ny friend never read any caapi extraction teks but thinks the acetone soak works!

 

[MelCat]

Acetone is one of the worst solvents you can use for harmalas.

Methanol is the best with ethanol coming in next.

To the OP: I don't believe lime would work because it isn't very water soluble. I would stick with the NaOH, when it drops the alks out, they are way easier to work with later in the extraction.

 

[Apoc]

Yes you can use CaOH! Thanks to a recent post by a nexian who discovered that CaOH in water will raise the ph to 12. That's even higher than sodium carbonate! I've been excited about this discovery since I heard about it, and I will continue to sing the greatness of CaOH in favor or disgusting NaOH.

The only catch is that CaOH isn't very water soluble, but it doesn't really matter. All you do is pour off your amount of CaOH in a jar, shake it up, let it sit for a few minutes and the insoluble stuff will sink to the bottom. Sipphon off the top water later and add it to your caapi brew. If it doesn't work, you can kick me in the balls.

 

[Serenity]

Solve my problem or kick you in the balls for less than the cost of used underwear? Count me in.

I'm not sure how much CAoH to use, but I'll do some research and get back with the results. Gracias, Apoc. You answered just as I was preparing to brew for my first time. I wonder if 25 grams of extracted Caapi will yield more effect than brewed Caapi (if used in pharma or aya, respectively). Blah, more research.

 

[Serenity]

Do you simply siphon with a turkey baster? Reminder: Limited funds :lol:

 

[gibran2]

...I will continue to sing the greatness of CaOH in favor or disgusting NaOH.

There’s nothing disgusting about NaOH. It’s a very strong base and it forms sodium salts when it reacts with acids and related compounds. Most sodium salts (sodium chloride, sodium acetate, probably sodium tannate) are very soluble in water.

I’m not sure that calcium salts are all very soluble in water. If not, this would create a problem when trying to separate a freebased alkaloid from everything else - an insoluble calcium salt couldn't be easily separated from freebase alkaloid.

When used with care, NaOH is an excellent base.

 

[Apoc]

...I will continue to sing the greatness of CaOH in favor or disgusting NaOH.

There’s nothing disgusting about NaOH.

I appreciate it's strength, but man, it's disgusting. It burns, if it gets in the eye the effects are horrifying, it makes the liquid all slimy, it turns normal water an ugly gray color, and it stinks to high heaven. The first time I tried harmala extraction, I used lye and after smelling the solution, I threw it out. I thought to myself, there's no way I'm going to consume something from a liquid that smells this bad, and I just gave up. Also, a lot of people don't even have access to pure lye, and resort to cleansers, which contain bad additives like aluminum and cancer causing sodium nitrate. The cleaners are also usually mixed with sodium carbonate, which clumps like a mad ferret.

It’s a very strong base and it forms sodium salts when it reacts with acids and related compounds. Most sodium salts (sodium chloride, sodium acetate, probably sodium tannate) are very soluble in water.

I’m not sure that calcium salts are all very soluble in water. If not, this would create a problem when trying to separate a freebased alkaloid from everything else - an insoluble calcium salt couldn't be easily separated from freebase alkaloid

Hmmm, interesting. I am not sure if my rue extraction using CaOH was a success. It definitely didn't result in crystals. The final dried product is like dirt. It doesn't taste very bitter, which makes me wonder if it's harmala at all. The bio assay will be done tomorrow.

 

[Serenity]

Ok, that does it. I'm just gonna brew tomorrow, and if I have left overs, I will experiment for us

 

[Enoon]

If you're hellbent on NOT using lye you can always resort to sodium carbonate, but you will have to do more cleaning steps and filtering can be a bit annoying as for some reasons the harmalas don't crash out as nicely when precipitated via Na2CO3. Still I've worked with it and have gotten decent results, after several more A/B steps than lye would take. And all of this without having to wear gloves or goggles, so if that's what you're after give it a go. Personally I only use lye these days. I don't mind it at all. I kind of enjoy how powerful it is

 

[gibran2]

...it turns normal water an ugly gray color, and it stinks to high heaven.

There must be something in your water. NaOH dissolved in pure, clean water yields a colorless, odorless, transparent solution.

 

[tele]

If you're hellbent on NOT using lye you can always resort to sodium carbonate, but you will have to do more cleaning steps and filtering can be a bit annoying as for some reasons the harmalas don't crash out as nicely when precipitated via Na2CO3. Still I've worked with it and have gotten decent results, after several more A/B steps than lye would take. And all of this without having to wear gloves or goggles, so if that's what you're after give it a go. Personally I only use lye these days. I don't mind it at all. I kind of enjoy how powerful it is

I did this. The result is fine even after one time A/B, just a bit darker, I tried it sublingually at 25mg and it was nice with vaped D.
I can recommend in the vinegar step when filtering the plant matter, to pour the liquid through coffee filter, it makes sure no plant matter will end up in the product when basifying again. It's about double the amount of lye, if one wants to use sodium carbonate.

 

[tele]

Do you simply siphon with a turkey baster? Reminder: Limited funds :lol:

A large syringe type baster will do fine. I bought traditional style baster and it dripped when removing the liquid so I resorted to syringe type baster.

 

[slant]

Hi All, been looking in forums etc for an answer to a query and this is as close as i can find, so here goes (apologies if in the wrong place, newbie trying to learn!)

Curated some spice from Normans tek (thanks DMT Nexus) and now trying to make 11x Caapi leaf, there is a great tek in the Wiki - Enhanced Caapi Leaf & Changa Primer - Changa - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

BUT it says to use Ethyl Alcohol - which I'm finding impossible to source in the UK.

Is there another solvent i can use? - I have Acetone but this post advises against it.

I did find some Bio Ethanol but cant seem to find much info on this by product of sustainable crops and if its much different from natural Ethanol.

any pointers be much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[endlessness]

Bio-ethanol? Can you get more information on it? Is it from some specific brand? Because it's probably just normal ethanol, meaning its fine to use.

Maybe find an MSDS from it to see if it contains anything other than ethanol and possible water.

 

[slant]

Thanks Endlessness i have emailed the vendor as they dont have data sheets on their site, will respond when i get them.