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Efficiency of Mimosa cold water extraction

blig-blug said:
Could you explain what you mean with the reference to benzoate?
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It was largely an observation/speculation.
blig-blug said:
Is it a suggestion that the acetate would also be soluble in vegetable oil?
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Not really, although that consideration was part of my line of thinking. The acetate might perhaps show slight solubility in oil, but it will preferentially partition into an aqueous phase. The butyrate (butanoate) might have a higher oil solubility, but nobody would want to use butyric acid because it smells like vomit and cheesy feet.
 
Thanks for clarifying!
Transform said:
it smells like vomit and cheesy feet
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Sounds perfect with harmalas 🤣

Well, I'm making a CWE test batch of 15g mimosa with some spring water with a dash of vinegar. It's a very unremarkable procedure, but as there aren't many recent threads on it and few mention drinking it with harmalas, I'll keep you updated about the result here.
 
Transform said:
For the cold percolation, a decent dropping funnel might prove helpful. This is essentially the same as a separatory funnel, for the most part.
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I'll look into it for when I test THP, which I plan on doing next. Now I'm just trying a normal, passive CWE (with some shaking) because I'm curious about it's effectiveness and the potential effects of yuremamine, and the reduction step with percolation would destroy it.
 
northape said:
Search for "vinho da jurema" on YT to see how natives do it ;)

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Interestingly, many seem to do it with shredded bark, not powdered. I wonder if it's just convenience. Some report sipping on it throughout the day.

As they don't take it with harmalas, it's difficult to know how effective the extraction is when compared with simmering.
 
blig-blug said:
Interestingly, many seem to do it with shredded bark, not powdered. I wonder if it's just convenience. Some report sipping on it throughout the day.

As they don't take it with harmalas, it's difficult to know how effective the extraction is when compared with simmering.
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Yeah, their practice is all over the place. See it more as inspiration and a connection to tradition.
You're not alone working with jurema and drinking cold brew 🙏
 
Okay, I tested the cold water extraction. I had added 30ml per gram, and I drank 90ml (so for 3g) with 230mg harmalas.

The strength is excellent. It was considerably stronger and lasted for longer than the same amount in a normal brew. Usually the effects last me for 2h, with the CWE they lasted almost 4h. It felt similarly strong to my pharma dosing (40mg DMT initially and then redosing with 30mg), although it's difficult to make comparisons because the character of the experience is noticeably different.

However, my hopes that it would deliver a more digestible brew didn't materialize. While it had absolutely no sediment without decanting (a major plus), it seemed to have as much tannin as the boiled version. I didn't have much nausea, but I had a very strong stomach pain for almost all the experience.

I think CWE is superior to boiling: the method is simpler and the result seems stronger and especially longer lasting. However, I continue in my search for a way to drink mimosa without too much stomach pain.
 
blig-blug said:
Okay, I tested the cold water extraction. I had added 30ml per gram, and I drank 90ml (so for 3g) with 230mg harmalas.

The strength is excellent. It was considerably stronger and lasted for longer than the same amount in a normal brew. Usually the effects last me for 2h, with the CWE they lasted almost 4h. It felt similarly strong to my pharma dosing (40mg DMT initially and then redosing with 30mg), although it's difficult to make comparisons because the character of the experience is noticeably different.
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Wow, good to know. Thank you for doing that. I'll take it into account the next time I work with mimosa.
blig-blug said:
However, my hopes that it would deliver a more digestible brew didn't materialize. While it had absolutely no sediment without decanting (a major plus), it seemed to have as much tannin as the boiled version. I didn't have much nausea, but I had a very strong stomach pain for almost all the experience.
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Hmm, tannins are persistent. Maybe do a CWE with that percolator thingy @ 150ml/g, then reduce to 1L and do an egg-filtration step.
blig-blug said:
I think CWE is superior to boiling: the method is simpler and the result seems stronger and especially longer lasting. However, I continue in my search for a way to drink mimosa without too much stomach pain.
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Perhaps Yuremamine gives it extra strength. Natives drink the CWE for a reason.
 
northape said:
Maybe do a CWE with that percolator thingy @ 150ml/g, then reduce to 1L and do an egg-filtration step.
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Yes, I'll try the Percolator. I'm always hesitant on the egg tek because I'm worried about leftover egg protein in the brew for a batch meant to last for weeks. Maybe I'll try freezing it in between uses. I'll also try in the future to use PVPP, a substance used to remove tannins from wine. And in due time I'll try different plants too, just in case. I do like mimosa other than the stomach pains.

northape said:
Perhaps Yuremamine gives it extra strength. Natives drink the CWE for a reason.
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That's what I think too. Yuremamine giving an extra MAOI boost seems like a good explanation for longer duration.

Now I have leftover brew that I don't think I'll drink like that, as the pain was not beneficial for the experience (mild pain or nausea often turn out to be helpful to me, somehow breaking mental barriers). I may do the egg tek on it, but I was also wondering if it would be possible to make an extraction as if it were a rue brew. I know it would also extract substances other than DMT, but that would be welcome in this case. I tried adding base to a test amount and it went from a very clear, transparent red to opaque black, and some stuff precipitated at the bottom. @Transform, what do you think of this idea of adding base to the brew, decanting, and drying? Is there any obvious problem with it (obvious for a chemist, that is)?
 
dithyramb said:
Eggtek involves boiling - it would destroy heat sensitive components, defeating the purpose of a cold extraction.
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Yes, that's another reason I'm looking for alternatives to it now that I've seen the difference between the effects of the CWE and the normal brew. The problem is the brew I have right now causes me too much stomach pain to focus on the experience, so if there's no alternative I'd rather lose yuremamine and other compounds than not use the brew.
 
blig-blug said:
For another batch, I may also try a cold extraction in vodka, similar to Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK but with vodka and only for mimosa. Apparently tannins precipitate in 40% ethanol.
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Tannins precipitate when lime is added. You're left with a golden solution of freebase and whatever the lime doesn't take with it. There's always the option of pH correction after the fact.

blig-blug said:
what do you think of this idea of adding base to the brew, decanting, and drying? Is there any obvious problem with it (obvious for a chemist, that is)?
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I don't know how sensitive yuremamine would be to this process, and it's as likely that DMT would float as that it would sink, as well as oiling out rather than behaving in a more convenient fashion. A few experiments would help you fine-tune a method in accordance with its behavior. You could try adding salt to ensure that the alkaloids float, where a lump of goo can be spooned off or swirled onto a cocktail stick/toothpick like candyfloss ('cotton candy').
 
Transform said:
Tannins precipitate when lime is added. You're left with a golden solution of freebase and whatever the lime doesn't take with it. There's always the option of pH correction after the fact.
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Somehow I missed that, thanks! I read in the wiki that yuremamine doesn't survive basic conditions, but I'd rather have no yuremamine and no tannins than the opposite.

Transform said:
I don't know how sensitive yuremamine would be to this process, and it's as likely that DMT would float as that it would sink, as well as oiling out rather than behaving in a more convenient fashion. A few experiments would help you fine-tune a method in accordance with its behavior. You could try adding salt to ensure that the alkaloids float, where a lump of goo can be spooned off or swirled onto a cocktail stick/toothpick like candyfloss ('cotton candy').
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Thank you for these pointers. I'm assuming the bigger black chunks that form and sink are tannins, if that's the case and the alkaloids float with salt (and the tannins keep sinking) it could work. I'll do some experiments and see what I get.
 
blig-blug said:
Somehow I missed that, thanks! I read in the wiki that yuremamine doesn't survive basic conditions, but I'd rather have no yuremamine and no tannins than the opposite.


Thank you for these pointers. I'm assuming the bigger black chunks that form and sink are tannins, if that's the case and the alkaloids float with salt (and the tannins keep sinking) it could work. I'll do some experiments and see what I get.
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If you add sodium carbonate, the tannins might well stay dissolved. Hoping for a clean separation with co-precipitated solids is a bit far-fetched, I'm sorry to say. This is with the aqueous extract, of course.
 
I just remembered: the first time I tried the egg tek, I did it wrong and got many small particles of egg suspended. In the end I just decanted them (took a long time), but I had read that alcohol denatures egg protein, and I remember adding some vodka to a test amount and the small egg particles agglomerated and fell to the bottom. I may try this to see if I can get a (properly) egg-tekked brew back to being clear instead of milky.
 
Transform said:
If you add sodium carbonate, the tannins might well stay dissolved. Hoping for a clean separation with co-precipitated solids is a bit far-fetched, I'm sorry to say. This is with the aqueous extract, of course.
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But as long as the alkaloids do precipitate it would be possible to separate them from the tannins, right? I had just assumed that the black chunks could be the tannins, but I don't really know, could be anything.

Do you recommend sodium carbonate for this instead of sodium hydroxide? I did the little test with sodium hydroxide.
 
blig-blug said:
But as long as the alkaloids do precipitate it would be possible to separate them from the tannins, right? I had just assumed that the black chunks could be the tannins, but I don't really know, could be anything.

Do you recommend sodium carbonate for this instead of sodium hydroxide? I did the little test with sodium hydroxide.
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It would be worth trying with sodium carbonate, just to compare. Its somewhat gentler action may or may not be advantageous - however I'm thinking of the eco-friendly

Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate

I just did some test extraction recently to see the viability of this method. It's just one more idea into developing teks with different household chemicals. It isnt supposed to substitute other teks, just checking out another option. The more methods we have to extract (and the more varied...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
around which this discussion has been skirting.
 
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