Ego death vs clarity of mind

[ॐ]

Hey guys. First off, I have to mention that I still have not tried DMT yet.
I had been lurking the Nexus for a good year and a half before I joined, and have been reading up on the substance for a good 3 years now. I have gathered supplies for an extraction, but deliberately waited a while because I still did not feel that it was the right time for me to embark on my journey. That time, I feel, has now finally come.

I am still wondering about something that always seemed contradictory to me though.
A lot of reports describe full-on ego death when breaking through, essentially losing all sense of self, or even of humanity. Then there are also a lot of reports akin to how Terence Mckenna often described his experiences: Being completely transported into a different place or dimension, but essentially retaining full clarity of mind, thought processes etc.

Found one of the instances where he makes this statement (skip to 4:30 minutes in):
[YOUTUBE]

Is a full-on breakthrough always accompanied by full ego death, or is that not always the case? Is it more like an extreme loss of ego coupled with full loss of the physical body, but retaining full clarity your "inner essence" in a way? Can the amount of ego-loss vary from one experience to the next with similar dose levels, or is it quite stable? I have never seen this juxtaposition discussed at all, and I'm very interested in what the more experienced folks here have to say on this topic.

 

[nexusdisciple]

> Is a full-on breakthrough always accompanied by full ego death

No. I've had many breakthroughs but I've only "experienced" complete ego death once.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

If you have a mind that can be described as clear, or alternately, cluttered, you are not experiencing ego death. The entire concept of 'experiencing ego death' is a bit of an oxymoron, as there is no 'you' to experience anything. There is just the entire universe.

It's a bit hard to describe.

 

[nexusdisciple]

If you have a mind that can be described as clear, or alternately, cluttered, you are not experiencing ego death. The entire concept of 'experiencing ego death' is a bit of an oxymoron, as there is no 'you' to experience anything. There is just the entire universe.

It's a bit hard to describe.

Exactly. I believe it is impossible to describe with any degree of accuracy the ego death "experience". "You" completely melt away and simply exist as all of creation at the same time.

The entire universe is simply one system with many moving parts inside it (people, celestial bodies, etc). You experience everyday subjective reality as a person through your ego. When ego dissolves, there is no longer an "I", as Nathaniel mentioned once you are free of ego all that remains is existing as the universe as a whole, all at once.

Just my $.02 on the topic

 

[Enoon]

You can break through without ego-death.

You can break through and have OBE where you become insignificant but still defined as the conscious observer of individual scenes/visions. You still exist as a self in this way.

You can break through where you exist as an entity, physically defined and confined but experiencing a completely different reality.

You can break through and melt into the godhead or into existence itself, into infinity, or into another being.

I've never heard of levels of ego-loss or weakening or anything like that. It's all or nothing for me, though probably all psychedelic expeiences change the realtion you have to yourself in some way so that probably affects the ego-thing somehow.

 

[nexusdisciple]

This is one of my favorite quotes about ego-death and I thought I'd post it here...

Ego death is not annhilation.
It is emancipation.

You do not cease to exist.
The boundaries that define you cease to exist.

Having no boundaries, 'you' become nothing.
Yet 'nothing' is still apart of 'everything', and thus 'everything' remains.

The experience: There is no You.
The revelation: There is only you.

You are the universe.

Concerning Enoon's observation that:

I've never heard of levels of ego-loss or weakening or anything like that. It's all or nothing for me, though probably all psychedelic expeiences change the realtion you have to yourself in some way so that probably affects the ego-thing somehow.

This has been my experience as well. I have often heard people speak about temporary ego-loss/ego-weakening but for myself it is an all or nothing experience. Either some form of self remains or it does not.

As far as the original question goes one can definitely have a breakthrough with their ego fully intact.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I've definitely experienced degrees of ego death. There have definitely been times in my life where I feel more 'connected' to the universe, as though I have a greater sense that I am part of the whole, while at the same time, remembering who 'I' am and what it means to be an individual.

I think that that feeling you get on psychedelics that everything is somehow really important is the first teasings of ego death in your brain.

 

[SynKyd]

This is a really great thread, I must say!

I agree that the ego death TM describes in many of his lectures is absolute, you truly do not exist as an individual and you slide back into that existence as you come out of the experience. It is beautiful, amazing, and completely indescribable. It will leave you questioning everything you know and have ever known or even considered possible the first time you reach that point. The degrees of ego death being discussed here are just lesser trips, and still amazing in their own way, but nothing compares to the oneness of the universe and truly being all of it and none of it in the same moment.

 

[poonja]

Nexusdisciple - Where did that quote come from?

 

[nexusdisciple]

Nexusdisciple - Where did that quote come from?

A trip report from awhile back.

 

[Redguard]

I've had made 3 or 4 experiences that I would classify as ego death. They all involved me taking an absurd amount of drugs, I don't feel these experiences will be welcome on this forum for this reason

I remember one time lime juicing a large amount of fungi I saw reality as one big simulation put in place to train new souls. It was like the outer layer of reality pealed back to reveal an intricate simulation ran by computers. My understanding of who or what I am was completely shattered into a million pieces. I would say ego death isn't really realizing you are connected to the universe but a realization you are the universe I came down rolling around my bed naked, incredible amounts of energy flowing through all my chakras, especially my root chakra. I didn't know my own name nor did I eve know where I was. My whole existence was pure instinct, lust driven animal like. For a few hours I was in this mind state with reality slowly but surely seeping into my brain until a passing memory of a friend allowed me to connect the dots and figure out who I was and what I was doing in this place.

For me this is true ego death. It's a very dangerous and foolish thing to do. Always have a sitter on standby to stop you from doing something stupid as well. When you go this deep....you never know what may come of it.