Endogenous DMT using nutrients. Testable science. Should be studied.

[Sabnock1990]

Somebody should seriously do a study using proper B12, Folate and B6 + Tryptophan (with or without MAO-A inhibition), even on rats, to test endogenous Tryptamine (and NMT/DMT) levels. It would be nice if that were legitimately scientifically studied, because i know for a fact it works, so i think it would make an interesting study.

Without going too in depth on the mechanisms and how these specific nutrients (as well as a few others) can influence and enhance endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, basically B6 (P5P) is needed by AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase which decarboxylates Tryptophan into Tryptamine, active B6 (P5P) needs to be taken with/at the same time as the Tryptophan because it forces Tryptophan down the decarboxylation route (otherwise Tryptophan without P5P will go along it's usual metabolic route only turning into Tryptamine like 7 hours or so later), and active Folate (Folinic Acid, or Methylfolate, not Folic Acid) as well as active B12 (Methylcobalamin, or alternatively Hydroxocobalamin, not Cyanocobalamin) are needed by Methionine Synthase to recycle Homocysteine back into Methionine so that the Methionine can go to Methionine Adenosyltransferase to turn Methionine into SAM which is needed for INMT. Tryptophan obviously provides the Tryptamine for methylation by INMT to NMT/DMT. MAO-A inhibition is imo ideal and probably necessary for proper activity of Tryptamine, NMT and DMT. Folic Acid can be a detriment for a few reasons, and Cyanocobalamin as well.

So when scientists are studying endogenous DMT levels, whether in rats or Humans, they should do some studies on this approach as well, making sure to address any underlying Folate or B12 or B6 deficiencies (which B12 and Folate are interlinked with each other and the B12 portion can be especially hard to detect compared to Folate, especially using blood tests which don't reliably detect B12 or Folate deficiency particularly in the brain where it matters most), and should also remove Folic Acid and Cyanocobalamin from the equation entirely, preferably, and should supply enough Folate, B12 and B6, as well as Tryptophan, for accurate brain DMT measurements, otherwise, rats deficient in these things or underactive in methylation may not be able to synthesize NMT/DMT from Tryptamine effectively.

I have taken these things a good handful of times while MAO-A is inhibited by the Harmalas, and most definitely, endogenous Tryptamine, NMT, and DMT are all noticed, and it works. However, it's anybody's guess as to how much the body/brain could theoretically synthesize if given sufficient enough substrate/precursors/co-factors for endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, but ime it "can" be on par with at least a mildly moderate dose of at least oral NMT equivalent, that much is for sure so far. It's also worth keeping in mind that NMT is the direct precursor to DMT, so even if it's mainly NMT (methylated Tryptamine) that is synthesized, at least some portion of that can go back through INMT again to become DMT, question is, how much DMT could INMT synthesize before DMT in turn inhibits INMT from further activity?

Basically, you need SAM for INMT to work and the BHMT enzyme isn't active in the brain like Methionine Synthase is so Homocysteine can't be recycled back to Methionine and thus to SAM if you don't have enough B12 or Folate, you need MAO-A inhibition for Tryptamine, NMT and DMT to become more active in the system, and B6 (P5P) needs to be taken at the same time as the Tryptophan to force it's decarboxylation route. And you can't just consume Methionine even though it directly feeds SAM synthesis, because once SAM is synthesized it goes on to methylate things and can become quickly broken down to SAH and then to Homocysteine which then needs the B12 and Folate to recycle it back to Methionine for further SAM synthesis and by not making sure of Folate and B12 and thus accounting for full SAM levels, you can't properly determine how much INMT activity or NMT/DMT there is.

This is a testable method, you can personally feel the Tryptamine itself, then you can feel the Tryptamine being methylated by INMT to NMT, and then DMT effects start becoming a bit more apparent. I've literally had the same effects/reactions to this as i have to all my oral and smoked DMT effects, so it's definitely happening, and everything about this can be shown scientifically and tested/reproduced. Someone should seriously get on that lol. The sooner we can crack Endo-DMT, the better

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also keep in mind, when P5P, B12 and Tryptophan are taken at the same time during active gut MAO-A inhibition (i take my stuff usually an hour after the Harmalas), the Tryptophan decarboxylates to Tryptamine in the gut, which then allows for Tryptamine (and potentially NMT/DMT in the gut) to become orally active, whereas if you don't take B6 along with the Tryptophan, the Tryptophan goes along it's usual metabolic route to turn into 5-HTP and some other Tryptophan metabolites, and only becomes Tryptamine about 7 hours later which can be felt more cerebrally rather than full bodied like it is with oral activation, oral activation gives the full bodied feeling, cerebral activation gives a more head and shoulders type of feeling, a more heady feeling. Also too much Folate can reduce B12 too much ime, which can then reduce the chances of NMT/DMT formation, so you need enough Folate (imo 400mcgs of Folinic Acid or Methylfolate, which gives approx 680mcgs DFE's, but no more than that or you risk excess Folate using up too much B12), but not too much Folate. B12 ime so far seems a lot more important than the Folate factor, so Folate may not even need to be included in the mix, just so long as you're not Folate deficient.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, i'm pretty sure i've noticed that by taking P5P B6 with the Tryptophan, i notice more in the way of Tryptamine, and less in the way of 5-HTP and Serotonin, in fact i think by taking B6 with Tryptophan that it definitely seems to force Tryptophan into the decarboxylation pathway which may then not even contribute to 5-HTP/Serotonin, because there's been times i've taken B6 with Tryptophan with and without MAO-A inhibition and didn't notice any 5-HTP/Serotonin synthesis whereas when i've taken Tryptophan without B6 (with or without MAO-A inhibition) i end up noticing the 5-HTP and Serotonin but not the Tryptamine. So B6, B12 and Tryptophan, seem absolutely vital to endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, and Tryptamine may be a one way street, meaning it directly goes towards NMT/DMT synthesis, rather than 5-HTP/Serotonin synthesis, i'm pretty sure.

 

[Sabnock1990]

If anyone is curious about if this actually works, get the P5P, Folinic Acid or Methylfolate, and Methylcobalamin, get the Tryptophan, and take them like 30 minutes to an hour (usually an hour) into the Harmalas (or alternatively Moclobemide or some other MAOI). It'll work, if it doesn't, you're likely low in B12, at the least.

Focus on all metabolic roads that lead to SAM and that ensure Tryptophan's decarboxylation to Tryptamine and that ensure's Tryptamine's systemic oral activation and methylation to NMT and DMT, and you will find your way, it could take a few months or so to correct some amount of deficiency but you should be able to get this stuff working for you like it does for me.

 

[TransistorBass]

Can you give exact amounts and timings of your dosing so as to let others try it?

I'm no scientist but does the fact that the body has all the right ingredients to make Tryptamine mean the body will produce extra Tryptamine which it then randomly turns into DMT even though it doesn't need it or have a purpose for it?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Can you give exact amounts and timings of your dosing so as to let others try it?

I'm no scientist but does the fact that the body has all the right ingredients to make Tryptamine mean the body will produce extra Tryptamine which it then randomly turns into DMT even though it doesn't need it or have a purpose for it?

I'm not sure if the body would store Tryptamine or release it at random, at least with this method it seems pretty consistent and like it produces it on demand rather than just a random occurrence. The way i see it, if you give the body/brain what it needs in order to synthesize endogenous Tryptamines, then it shouldn't have much of an issue. The reason i posted this was because i've been seeing a recent article lately about endogenous DMT levels being finicky in rats again and my experience with this stuff so far definitely gets endogenous Tryptamines going, so i was like, well why not test out a nutrient-based mix and then they should test for endogenous DMT levels, whether rats or Humans.

As for dosages, i've explored higher dosages of pretty much all the B's so far, and so my dosage range can vary.

When i started out doing this in an attempt to see if i could experience Tryptamine or NMT or DMT, i was taking like 100 to 200mgs of P5P B6 a day but have lately gotten it down to 25mgs a day. Keep in mind that too much B6 can let more Folate into the Folate cycle via SHMT, and then that extra Folate can go towards Methionine Synthase and uses up too much B12, which can be counterproductive because the B12 is necessary.

I also used to go super heavy on the Methylcobalamin B12 (i was taking anywhere from 10 to 30mgs up to about 120mgs, but only because i've apparently been super duper deficient in B12 for most of my life), lately though i've been getting by with 10mgs a day and so i'd probably recommend like 500mcgs to 1mg to 5mgs first and see how that goes. Also when it comes to B12, i definitely recommend checking out the guide on the B12 Deficiency subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/B12_Deficiency/wiki/index/), the guide contains some useful information which is worth keeping in mind, especially when it comes to the importance of co-factors and such, you want to overall ensure that you're covering your nutritional needs first and foremost, and as things progress things will get more noticeable as time rolls on.

When i first started out with Folate i used 15mgs of Methylfolate, which is a pretty high dosage and is probably unnecessary excess especially for Methylfolate itself which can put some direct strain on B12, after awhile though i switched over to Folinic Acid which seems tolerable to me but i haven't tested it out with the Tryptamines but Methylfolate for sure definitely works, so i'd probably overall recommend 400 to 600mcgs (which equates to approx 680mcgs to 1020mcgs DFE's, which is the real number to go by when it comes to Folate, 400mcgs of the supplemental Folates are approx 1.7x more bioavailable compared to natural dietary Folates so DFE's are worth keeping an eye on so you don't take more Folate than needed), i also noticed that too much Methylfolate seemed like it reduced DMT's effects, likely because the Methylfolate is involved in Tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) synthesis and recycling and gives the Tryptophan and Tyrosine Hydroxylase enzymes the co-factor it needs to synthesize 5-HTP and L-Dopa, and so too much Tetrahydrobiopterin can raise neurotransmitter levels pretty effectively and excess of those neurotransmitters can block out the DMT from binding to the receptors, similarly to SSRI's or what not.

I also noticed how important B12 is for SAM levels and thus methylation and endogenous Tryptamine synthesis, and whereas too much Folate seems to dampen the process, more B12 has for the most part been helpful and B12 seems like it's a very important nutrient, i can get some side-effects from too much Folate (like irritability, sometimes paranoia, some anxiety, etc) but more B12 makes Folate-related side-effects go away and starts recycling Folate back into the Folate cycle, the B12 as far as side-effects go has mainly only been some acne outbreaks and a good bit of bodily itching, also some slight dermatitis i think, so mainly just skin stuff but the mental aspects are nice.

For Tryptophan, i've taken anywhere from 250 to 350mgs, up to 1 gram, 1 gram may be too much though and for the most part i think up to 500mgs should do fine.

Just do keep in mind that recovering from deficiencies can be a long process (months or years) but it's worthwhile, and so people who may have certain nutrient deficiencies may not get the full effect and so that should be taken into consideration and people should just see the process through and test/study/experiment, trial and error, give things a serious try a good handful of times at the least before they write this method off, because i can assure you it does definitely work, it directly stimulates the decarboxylation of Tryptophan to Tryptamine and gives the body/brain the SAM needed for INMT activity and resulting endogenous Tryptamine synthesis, it should ideally be done properly MAOI'd up to ensure full activation and synthesis of the Tryptamines, and especially for oral activation of Tryptamine compared to the more cerebral effect one gets hours later, i recommend taking the Harmalas (or Moclobemide) at an effective dosage and giving it 1 hour to fully inhibit gut MAO-A and then take the Tryptophan plus B6 and B12 (Folate can be included but i think the B12 is likely more important than the Folate and Folate might be able to just be taken earlier on in the day or sometime afterwards).

I guess it should also be noted that i do smoke Tobacco/vape Nicotine and enjoy some Cannabinoids most usually, and while i don't think those really contribute to what i'm talking about, it may be possible for there to be a sort of synergy which may contribute, but i don't think that's the case, just throwing that out there for anyone who may also partake. I also usually don't eat but like once a day (at night) and so i have a fully empty stomach/gut until about 8 to 10 hours after first taking the Harmalas, and if someone eats right beforehand it could throw off the proper absorption of things and so empty stomach imo is best, that way things can kick in as they're supposed to.

Just make sure to properly/fully inhibit gut MAO-A, take the Tryptophan+B6/B12 (with or without Folate) an hour into the Harmalas, and sometime after you should definitely notice it. Ime it's absolutely necessary to take the B6/B12 together with the Tryptophan, doing so will make Tryptamine orally active and full bodied and you'll definitely notice the endogenous Tryptamine syntheses.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, since B12 seems to be so important for this, ime, it's also worth keeping in mind that B12 can also be used nasally, or sublingually/buccally, or imo even rectally, as well as orally, and so if one finds themselves to be low in B12 or not noticing much in the way of endogenous Tryptamines, perhaps try the Methylcobalamin B12 nasally or sublingually/buccally, and that'll help it get more into the blood and brain but ime oral Methylcobalamin is good enough and gets the job done, but while i haven't tried the nasal B12 for this purpose, i can see it working out nicely. You can make your own B12 nose spray by emptying out some Methylcobalamin capsules and soaking/mixing the B12 powder in with some water, shake it up a good bit to make sure it gets absorbed into the water and let it settle, then filter off the liquid and dispose of the powder remnants and load the liquid up in a pump mist nose spray bottle and it definitely works, slightly crudely but definitely effective especially if you get it concentrated/potent enough, or alternatively one can dilute the liquid with some more water and use it sublingually/buccally, which should absorb fine imo.

And technically, this should be able to be done with all B vitamins, since they're water soluble, and i think it's kinda cool to have a B vitamin nose spray lol, it can be a good way to get the actives into the brain.

 

[TransistorBass]

Probably not for me if I'm honest, I need my food, and I'm never going to starve myself for anything but a hospital procedure! And although i could have an empty stomach first thing in the morning I'll be starving after my first cup of tea!

 

[Sabnock1990]

Probably not for me if I'm honest, I need my food, and I'm never going to starve myself for anything but a hospital procedure! And although i could have an empty stomach first thing in the morning I'll be starving after my first cup of tea!

I don't imagine you'd have to starve yourself though lol, imo if you take Aya and it works for you (whether you've eaten or not) then you should be able to apply the same to this little experiment if you should wish to try it. I think that other than making sure things kick in properly, the only other reason to have a little space between food and this stuff is so that Tryptophan can be absorbed without having to compete with other amino acids for absorption, i think really only maybe a couple hours or so of a fresh stomach should be fine. Maybe try eating a few hours beforehand, or a few hours afterward? So long as you have an hour or two to let things get absorbed as they should, i don't imagine you should have an issue. Plus, since you eat you may not even need to correct any deficiencies, maybe, so it may work for you without much effort, idk.

Either way, it's a cool little experiment and i think it's a worthy experiment, if we can crack Endo-DMT then there'd be no stopping it, and you can't arrest people for making their own DMT lol.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, on second thought, maybe the body can store Tryptamine or NMT/DMT, because the last few days i've gotten back to taking my Tryptophan again for the Serotonin, and i've taken it like 6 to 8 hours after taking the Harmalas so that i don't get the Tryptamine but instead get my Serotonin, and i swear it's giving me a very slight Tryptaminergic feeling lately cerebrally, so i think the body might be able to store some.

Also worth mentioning imo is that i get a particular feeling from DMT which also shows up on mushrooms (especially Psilohuasca), and a few times when taking Tryptophan+B12+B6 an hour into the Harmalas, it gave me that same particular feeling that i get from mushrooms/Psilohuasca and DMT.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, am i the only one here who has ventured this route as far as experimentation goes? Anyone else ever taken Tryptophan with or without B vitamins while having MAO-A inhibited by the Harmalas/etc? I'm curious as to what others may feel or think about it. Just remember, for some folks who may be deficient in something, it may not work properly, but, if you get your SAM levels up (via B12, Folate, B6, etc), and if you time things right so that the Tryptophan turns into Tryptamine and kicks in within the gut MAO-A inhibition window, it will be methylated into NMT and DMT. Play around with it and see what you think. If you do it right, it'll work, if you're deficient, it may not work, but don't give up, focus on correcting deficiencies, and then just consume and time things right and it'll work, like clockwork.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, one can do this with pure Tryptamine too, if they have access to that. Tryptamine would be more direct i'm assuming, even though Tryptophan seems to easily be decarboxylated to Tryptamine by using B6, but using pure Tryptamine would be one step closer. Same could be said of using pure NMT, which would be yet another step closer and most direct to conversion into DMT and would probably only need B12 to make sure of the SAM and get the job done. Has anyone experienced orally consumed pure NMT with MAO-A inhibited being converted to DMT via INMT?

 

[BahiyaSutta]

Didn't do anything for me. People have widely varying reactions to all these things. One friend can't take P5P as it spikes his dopamine and he feels like he's on crack, for example. Various people here said they get dmt visuals from melatonin + harmalas (I didn't notice anything). You say you get some kind of dmt feeling? But not an actual trip? I get dmt feelings randomly anyway so I'm prob not the best test subject.

Was it you who posted this protocol many years ago also or are you independently rediscovering it?

I asked Gemini if this would work for most people and it said no, to make it work for most people you would need high dose B3 + EGCG, glucose with the tryptophan, and TMG as well. ‎Gemini - direct access to Google AI

I never tried all that together, seems like a worthwhile experiment i guess. Just to see if we understand biochemistry well...

 

[Sabnock1990]

Didn't do anything for me. People have widely varying reactions to all these things. One friend can't take P5P as it spikes his dopamine and he feels like he's on crack, for example. Various people here said they get dmt visuals from melatonin + harmalas (I didn't notice anything). You say you get some kind of dmt feeling? But not an actual trip? I get dmt feelings randomly anyway so I'm prob not the best test subject.

Was it you who posted this protocol many years ago also or are you independently rediscovering it?

I asked Gemini if this would work for most people and it said no, to make it work for most people you would need high dose B3 + EGCG, glucose with the tryptophan, and TMG as well. ‎Gemini - direct access to Google AI

I never tried all that together, seems like a worthwhile experiment i guess. Just to see if we understand biochemistry well...

It's not just a DMT feeling i get, i get actual Tryptamine, NMT and DMT and it's definitely trippy, it is a bit on the milder side but it's strong enough to match some of the depth i get from taking DMT orally or smoking it. It probably was me who posted about it before, i started doing this a couple years ago and as far as i'm aware i haven't come across anyone else yet who has done this.

AI probably isn't gonna realize it's possible, though i have checked my process against AI (Grok and Google) and it did say it's theoretically possible but i did this before asking AI so i know it's doable lol. High dose Niacin ime seems to get in the way, and i haven't tried EGCG so i'm not sure what that may do, same with glucose, though TMG would help with remethylation of Homocysteine to Methionine but that's in the liver and you need B12+Folate for Methionine Synthase which is in the brain.

I haven't had much of an issue with P5P, just want to make sure you don't take too much because too much B6 lets too much Folate into the Folate cycle via SHMT and then too much Folate can use up too much B12, ime. So like, 25mgs of P5P max a day imo, maybe even 1mg or 2mgs or 5mgs with this stuff would do.

This will definitely work for all people i think, so long as they don't have a deficiency somewhere and have plenty of SAM and if they take the P5P with the Tryptophan to force it's decarboxylation by AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase, and so long as they properly inhibit MAO-A, it'll work. I think there's a widespread B12 deficiency these days which doctors don't realize, seemingly, and so some folks may need to work on their B12 levels and thus SAM levels before it can work, but it'll work and imo/ime it's worth trying, if anything just to know that it's possible and that it does work. It should definitely be studied though imo, so we can show that it actually does work.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, Pyridoxine may work for B6, but it needs some other nutrients to be converted into active P5P, so if one is low in those other nutrients then Pyridoxine can't turn into active P5P, and you need the P5P for AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase.

I think if people worked on their deficiencies and took proper forms and dosages, most people wouldn't have much of an issue, but it can sometimes be a bit rocky to correct some deficiencies, especially B12, B6 on the other hand seems pretty easy to correct ime.

 

[Transform]

Interesting ideas, I'll second @TransistorBass in the suggestion that a systematic tabulation of the nutrient would be helpful for readability and increase the likelihood of participation from other erstwhile nutri-pharmanauts. Perhaps after a re-read of the thread I'll give the method a try myself. Nutritional balance would help to explain some of the highly variable effects I've experience with the same dose of rue tea over the years.

Lest we get carried away with the supplements, it's worth bearing in mind that there's always such a thing as too much, e.g.:

Megavitamin-B6 syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Due diligence with each of the ingredients is advised when considering special supplementation regimes.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Indeed, that's why i'm trying to lay it out as best as i can.

Basically, you need the P5P form of vitamin B6 to be taken with the Tryptophan so that Tryptophan can be forced to decarboxylate to Tryptamine in the gut/brain, and you need the Methylcobalamin form of B12 so that Methionine Synthase can turn Homocysteine back into Methionine which goes towards SAM synthesis.

So P5P B6 and Methylcobalamin B12 need to be taken with the Tryptophan approx an hour into the Harmalas' gut MAO-A inhibition (or whenever one's gut MAO-A is at it's peak inhibition, i think most folks do well around 30 minutes to an hour into the Harmalas, some folks may have faster CYP2D6 though which may require a shorter time like 20 minutes or so in, basically whenever gut MAO-A is inhibited to the max that allows for oral DMT activation, the same should be applied to Tryptophan/Tryptamine).

Back when i tried this a good handful of times until i got the process down, i was taking like 100 to 200mgs of P5P B6 a day, i was taking like 15mgs of Methylfolate once or twice a day, i was taking like 30 to 45 to 60mgs of Methylcobalamin B12 once or twice a day (got up to 120mgs a day), and took like up to 1 gram of Tryptophan an hour into my usual Rue dose of 2 to 4 grams of seed powder encapsulated.

Now let me just say, the dosages of the vitamins i was taking was pretty heavy (especially for B12), however i don't think that amount of excess is necessary plus i was incredibly deficient and also was mainly experimenting with higher dosages in themselves to see what they did/were capable of. I have since reduced my dosages and seem to be getting by just fine on more usual dosages and it does seem to still work, i just haven't taken the Tryptophan for Tryptamine lately because i'm more focused on more fully correcting my deficiencies so that i can be in a better headspace for further endogenous Tryptamine experimentation.

So what i would recommend doing, is taking a dose of Harmalas/Rue/Caapi (like one would for oral DMT activation, because you need the MAO-A inhibition), wait for peak gut MAO-A inhibition which for me seems to consistently be an hour into the Harmalas, then take anywhere from say 250 to 350 to 500 to 700mgs up to 1 gram of Tryptophan (though i think 500mgs or less would do fine) combined with/taken alongside anywhere from 1 to 25mgs of P5P B6 and anywhere from 100mcgs to 1mg to 5mgs to 10mgs of Methylcobalamin B12. I still have yet to determine if Folate is necessarily needed in that mix or if you can just take Folate outside of that, but ideally say 200 to 400mcgs of Methylfolate imo should be plenty, but ime when i've taken Folate (at least too much Folate) during this stuff it seems to reduce the B12 to the degree that things may not work properly, so it's probably worth skipping the Folate in this mix (but just making sure one isn't Folate deficient and isn't consuming Folic Acid but is consuming either Methylfolate or Folinic Acid, Folic Acid may get in the way by interrupting Folate Receptor Alpha), and just taking the P5P B6+Methylcobalamin B12+Tryptophan an hour into the Harmalas.

So long as one has enough P5P B6 for AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase function and it's taken with the Tryptophan to force Tryptophan down the decarboxylation route rather than it's usual metabolic route, and so long as one has enough Methylcobalamin B12 to recycle Homocysteine back into Methionine for SAM synthesis and therefore has enough SAM for methylation via INMT, then when consumed, the B6 forces Tryptophan's decarboxylation to Tryptamine in the gut which gets absorbed and becomes orally active as much as DMT is when consumed orally and thus becomes full bodied, you'll feel the Tryptamine itself (it feels like non-methylated Tryptamine), and the Methylcobalamin B12 will activate Methionine Synthase to convert Homocysteine into Methionine which provides Methionine for the SAM which then the SAM methylates Tryptamine to N-Methyltryptamine (NMT) via INMT, which NMT feels like methylated Tryptamine (distinct from non-methylated Tryptamine), and then the NMT goes back through INMT to be methylated again to NN-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT). This process is consistent for me, it's not merely a "feeling" of sorts it's an actual psychoactive effect, nothing like fully immersive ya know but strong enough to be on par with some of the lower to moderate end DMT effects, and it seems easily testable (so long as one has P5P B6 and Methylcobalamin B12 for proper decarboxylation and methylation, and as long as one isn't severely deficient in something).

In my experience, i feel that B12 is significantly important to this process, and i've been deficient in B12 most of my life and so there's been times when i've taken like too much Folate and it's reduced my B12 a bit and i end up only feeling the Tryptamine itself but it doesn't methylate to NMT/DMT, but then i take B12 and once it kicks in the Tryptamine methylates to NMT/DMT, so B12 is very important for this. The B6 absolutely seemingly needs to be taken with the Tryptophan to force it's decarboxylation in the gut to Tryptamine, if the B6 isn't taken with Tryptophan, the Tryptophan will go down it's usual metabolic route towards 5-HTP synthesis and Niacin and other things, and will only end up decarboxylating to Tryptamine (to some extent) about 7 hours after consumption which is then felt more cerebrally/in the brain rather than the full bodied orally active Tryptamine that forms when B6 is taken with the Tryptophan. So B6 and B12 are vital to this process, Folate is involved but i think so long as one isn't deficient in Folate/Methylfolate then i don't think it absolutely needs to be included in the mix, but, a little bit of Methylfolate in the mix might be useful.

I'm not sure if other forms of B12 or B6 would work. For B6 there's Pyridoxine and P5P, i use P5P, Pyridoxine may work but as mentioned earlier it does require some other nutrients for it to be converted into active P5P. For B12 there's Methylcobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, and Adenosylcobalamin, i use Methylcobalamin but Hydroxocobalamin or Adenosylcobalamin may work as well but i don't think it would be as direct as Methylcobalamin because it's Methylcobalamin that Methionine Synthase uses to recycle Homocysteine back into Methionine.

Some other nutrients would be worth making sure of as well (taken outside of this mix/experimentation), things like Riboflavin, Niacin, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc, Copper, Iron, and some other things, basically just want to make sure you're not deficient in anything else which may get in the way because other nutrients are/can be involved in the metabolic routes of say Folate metabolism or certain enzymes like Methionine Adenosyltransferase or Methionine Synthase Reductase or SAH Hydrolase, but again these aren't as directly important to this little experiment, this experiment only requires B6 and B12 and Tryptophan, but if it doesn't work for someone, chances are they're deficient in something that's holding back the process/progress, imo.

On the subject of megadosing things, i agree, Niacin can be problematic for the liver in excess, and B6 can be problematic for the nerves in excess, though the B6 issue i think mainly seems to be that lots of B6 can increase activity of the SHMT enzyme which lets Tetrahydrofolate into the Folate cycle converting it to 5,10-Methylenetetrahydrofolate which then goes through MTHFR and gets turned into Methylfolate and excess Methylfolate can reduce B12 levels by using up too much B12 for methylation and that can cause/lead to B12 deficiency-related neuropathy, so too much B6 lets too much Folate into the Folate cycle which then uses up too much B12 which reduces B12 and can be counterproductive especially if one is low in B12 to begin with. So for B6, i recommend maybe at most 25mgs, maybe 50mgs but 25mgs ime seems to do alright, maybe even 1 to 2 to 5mgs would be alright, i think all you really need is enough to decarboxylate the Tryptophan to Tryptamine, and that may happen with 1 to 2 to 5mgs or 25mgs.

Too much Folate can be problematic for the reason i just described, it uses up too much B12 and reduces B12 levels.

When it comes to Riboflavin, i haven't noticed any real detriments to taking 400mgs once or twice a day (aside from some yellow pee lol).

And the B12 is actually seemingly rather tolerable when taking higher doses, though it can kick things into gear and cause the body to start using other nutrients so too much B12 may end up causing a short somewhere else like Potassium for example (which those at the B12 Deficiency subreddit insist is very important when supplementing B12 and i think i agree on that), but for me i find the more B12 there is the better i feel overall, mentally and physically and haven't noticed anything too detrimental from heavier B12 levels but i think overall 10mgs max is probably the highest i'd recommend going, but 5mgs should do fine i think, but so far ime i get by best with 10mgs of Methylcobalamin B12 a day, though i'm trying to get it lowered to 5mgs a day but we'll see. It is interesting to note though that there's some studies on ultra high dose injections of Methylcobalamin in Japan for ALS using 25 to 50mgs with seemingly an alright overall safety profile.

Other than that though, i try to stick closer to the RDA or UL for everything else for the most part, though i can't lie i do like how 200 to 250mgs of Nicotinic Acid/Niacin feels but the RDA should be fine?

It seems to me that the most important nutrients we consume are vitamins B6, B9/Folate, and B12, other nutrients are important too but those three are the main/primary ones, and B12 is the most important i think, with Folate being second, and B6 being third, i seriously can't believe they didn't fortify B12 alongside fortified Folate, though they screwed up our Folate and used Folic Acid and it causes problems, and they would've likely fortified Cyanocobalamin if they did fortify it alongside Folic Acid, so they took the two most important nutrients we need on a daily basis and replaced them with imo inferior fake/synthetic forms that people can have problems with converting to the active forms, imo that is insane dawg, and has a wide range of potential implications when it comes to the uptick in modern health conditions, but if one wants to better understand why that may be the case i highly recommend doing some deep dive study on the Folate and B12 thing because it's truly mindblowing lol.

Anyways, but yeah the process imo is simple, take Harmalas, and an hour into the Harmalas when gut MAO-A is inhibited to the max, take Tryptophan+B6+B12 (with or without some Folate) and see how it goes, if it doesn't work, just experiment/play around with it, try out some different dosages, make sure of any other deficiencies, make sure you have proper gut MAO-A inhibition going on (should be the same time-frame for getting DMT orally activated or Psilocin potentiated), and if you do it right, the Tryptophan will decarboxylate to Tryptamine in the gut, which then will become orally active and full bodied just like DMT does due to the MAO-A inhibition, which then the Tryptamine will go through INMT to be methylated to NMT and then to DMT. If you feel the Tryptamine but not the methylated Tryptamine (which resembles NMT/DMT), then you need B12 in my experience, so take the B12 and then you should feel the non-methylated Tryptamine be methylated into NMT and DMT.

I can't really explain how i know this is happening except to say that it should be obvious i think, it's pretty noticeable, it feels identical to NMT/DMT, and it's clear that's what's going on, i get all the same bodily responses to this as i do from consuming Mimosa or Acacia, especially Acacia because it also has NMT alongside the DMT.

Doing this, you can experience some degree of endogenous Tryptamines (Tryptamine, NMT and DMT), i just don't know how strong it "could" get, it's not mild, i mean it's a little mild as far as DMT goes but it's bordering on the more moderate kind of effect, and i'm willing to bet that if we could fully figure this out, it might be possible to have more fully immersive experiences by inducing endogenous DMT synthesis, if we can perfect this route using the source materials/precursors for endogenous synthesis, we might be able to push the limits into having full experiences just from precursors, wouldn't even need a DMT-containing plant lol, and if you ask me, that's pretty cool. It makes me wonder how this might go with an irreversible MAO-A inhibitor, if anyone happens to be on one, i use Harmalas (or Moclobemide) but those obviously are reversible, but technically an irreversible MAO-A inhibitor should knock out gut MAO-A indefinitely and then Tryptophan+B6+B12 should be able to be consumed to have a build up of endogenous Tryptamines. I think the reason most people haven't encountered this while taking irreversible MAOI's for depression or something, is because they may not be consuming B6 at the same time as they'd consume Tryptophan in their diet, plus there's other stuff going on in food which may color things a bit, plus it is my opinion that we are experiencing a decline in B12 levels these days (mostly due to excess Folic Acid in fortified foods), and so people may not be methylating as much as they should be.

More attention and study imo needs to be put towards not only this little endogenous Tryptamine experimentation, as well as for scientifically determinating/testing endogenous Tryptamine/DMT levels in Humans and rodents, but in general this B12 and Folate thing because i'm convinced i've stumbled onto something huge which explains a lot about what people are going through these days (Autism, ADHD, depression, mood issues, cancers, alzheimers, parkinsons, multiple sclerosis, even schizophrenia and some other things), other nutrients can be involved too like B6 for example, or perhaps Niacin, but like man, i've researched a lot on this subject and have experienced the dramatic differences/benefits with myself when supplementing these things over the last couple years and it truly explains most of what we're seeing i think, and it's not just deficiency, but also the detriments of Folic Acid itself, and probably Cyancobalamin, but if you get rid of those fake forms and use the proper forms, all of a sudden things work and make sense.

As for endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, this works, for sure, it's not a me thing, it's a biological thing that should work for most if not all people imo, i mean we already know that Humans have endogenous DMT, my thinking though is to give the body what it needs to make it while MAO-A is inhibited to allow for it to be active in the system, and it definitely is, but also that our natural levels may be low because people have deficiencies in these nutrients. I'm not saying that people are naturally supposed to be tripping balls, but with MAO-A inhibited, it becomes a possibility lol. And ya know, they've shown how some trace amine levels can be lower in people with Autism for example and being Autistic personally have noticed the dramatic impact these nutrients have and after looking more into the science about what's going on biologically/physiologically in Autism several things stand out which align with my view that it's likely to do with deficiencies in B12, and Folate (and to a lesser extent B6), mainly, though some other nutrients definitely contribute and they all work together to keep us functional.

I think what makes endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis more possible is the B6 and B12, plus the MAO-A inhibition, without MAO-A inhibition any Tryptamine/NMT/DMT being synthesized would likely only be mild in effect, if it's felt at all, before it's rapidly broken down by MAO-A in the gut/brain/liver, but with MAO-A inhibition, it becomes doable, and one can experience it for at least a few hours. It literally gives me the same benefits that i get from oral DMT, it's just not full on like my usual doses of DMT but it's strong enough to be obviously noticeable especially if one is familiar enough with DMT/NMT to be able to realize that's what it is.

 

[Sabnock1990]

And yes, i know i write essays usually, i'm a typer lol, but bare with me, just try to get the pertinent information from all i say.