Enhanced sublingual salvia powder

[Zebbie]

So the freezing prevented it from turning dull :thumb_up:

Yes, good suggestion from physics envy. Freezing works for at least one week. I have another 3 x 200mg doses in the freezer. It will be interesting to see how the last one performs in a month's time.

One could consider the combination of extract on powdered leaf, combining the 2 methods to whatever ratio of choice. Could the powdered leaf substitute the starch?

The problem is the porosity. You would have to grind the leaf very fine indeed, to destroy the spongy structure that soaks up the salvinorin solution. Da! I love alliteration!

I tried doing something like that during my early experiments with ground leaf. Instead of using glycerin and vinegar, I added a few drops of acetone, and continued grinding until the acetone had evaporated. I was hoping that the acetone would extract the salvinorin from the trichomes, and the extra grinding would spread it over the leaf.

The results were inferior to the standard ground leaf. The acetone washed the salvinorin into the interior of the leaf, where it became unavailable for sublingual absorption.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm thinking of extending this method to S. glutinosa leaf, to see whether it might produce something workable. S. recognita would be better but I haven't found one of those yet...

Thanks for all the info, Zebbie!

EDIT: actually, it would be the ground up leaf powder as well. Now I'm mixing up these threads as well :lol:
They do complement each other well.

 

[starway6]

Interesting thread powderd sublingual salvia...

quote...55' Trip ended abruptly, as before. I became aware of the sleeping mask on my head. I had neglected to cover my eyes! The salvia pulled me down again.]]]]

Maybey adding some rue powder to the mix will improve the experiance ... and make it longer?? ?:roll:

 

[Zebbie]

Next episode: The 3 ring salvia circus!

I used 3 solvents of varying polarity to extract 5g of ground leaf. The object was to see if a wide spread in polarity improves the powder.

First pull: 40% ethanol (brandy), 30g

The first pull with 40% ethanol was problematic. The solvent did not completely wet out the leaf, some lef floated on top, and some remained suspended in limbo. When I decanted the solution, it contained a lot of entrained leaf dust and coarser leaf fragments.

Second pull: 91% IPA, 20g
Third pull: acetone, 20g

The combined solution was poured onto a flat glass dish. I evaporated the solvent in a dark room with a fan. After overnight drying, I was left with a coarse dark green suspension in a clear olive brown liquid. There was no solvent smell. The liquid smelled like black tea.

This is what happened: As the organic solvents evaporated, the water concentration of the remaining solution increased. The water-insoluble components precipitated, and formed a coarse dark green suspension in a brown aqueous liquid.

I dried the remaining liquid in a thermo fan oven set to 50^C. The brown liquid formed a hard brown film.

I tried re-dissolving the residue in acetone. The dark green bits dissolved, but the brown film did not dissolve, it only softened. I added 1g of starch powder. I used a steel spoon to scrape off the softened bits, and mix them with the starch.


The powder dried quickly. I reserved 0.4g for a test drive, and stored the rest in the freezer.

 

[Zebbie]

....and a small video of the green lipophilic salvinorin-rich particles suspended in the aqueous phase

 

[Zebbie]

Trip report, 0.4g of the powder prepared above:

0'20" The powder dissolved almost instantly. The lumps disintegrated as soon as they became wet with saliva. This is an improvement on the powder made in Post # 14
6' Warmth
9' Tripping
47' Trip over, with about 5' of afterglow.

I managed to emerge and submerge twice before the end of the trip.

The water extractables appear to be beneficial on two counts:

* They improve the dissolution of the powder under the tongue, and
* Trip onset is fast, but duration is longer.

So the next step is to repeat this exercise, but using water in place of brandy to maximize the extraction of water soluble polysaccharides. (Polysaccharide gums are good steric stabilizers for oily dispersions.)

 

[Zebbie]

It's Saturday again! Another glorious day in Paradise!

I tested another 200mg dose of the powder made in Post #39, stored in the freezer for 2 weeks.

6' Warmth
9' tripping
44' Trip over.

The powder dissolves in less than 30 seconds. It has a clean bitter taste. Once dissolved, it feels like there is nothing in your mouth.

I emerged and submerged a few times before the end of the trip. I really enjoy the quick onset, and the lack of any gritty leaf sensation in my mouth.

 

[Jees]

Thanks Z.
30 mins under the clouds is something alright.

 

[Loveall]

Hi Zebbie, this is great work. Thank you.

One question: Do you plan to drink the dissolved powder? Would be an interesting test if safe, etc.

 

[Zebbie]

One question: Do you plan to drink the dissolved powder? Would be an interesting test if safe, etc.

I always swallow the dissolved powder when the trip comes on. All the potentially harmful solvents have evaporated. The powder contains salvia extract and starch. It is safer than eating salvia divinorum leaves on a slice of bread!

 

[Loveall]

One question: Do you plan to drink the dissolved powder? Would be an interesting test if safe, etc.

I always swallow the dissolved powder when the trip comes on. All the potentially harmful solvents have evaporated. The powder contains salvia extract and starch. It is safer than eating salvia divinorum leaves on a slice of bread!

Thanks, understood. My question is, would you want to try to simply swallow it (not holding it in the mouth for any time). If it is easily absorbed you should feel the effects. Last year when working with HPBCD complexation one could drink it and get good effects.

 

[Zebbie]

Ah, good question! I will sacrifice one of my doses of enhanced powder to test this. Or do I need a bigger dose for absorption from the stomach?

 

[Loveall]

I would do the same dose to compare (only change one variable). If absorbtion is well enhanced you should feel effects.

There is also thymeleaved sandwort that may potentiate the experience. I've been growing it for almost a year and it is ready to go.

It would be great if we could make an herbal tea with the thymeleaved sandwort, mix in enhanced bioavailable salvia powder (the powder you have developed here or the HPBCD complex) and drink that just like one drinks Aya. We could call it sallyhuasca. It may not work, but I think it is something worth pursuing until we know.

 

[Zebbie]

I will sacrifice one of my doses of enhanced powder to test this.

This morning I weighed out 200mg of powder made in Post #39. I added a tablespoonful of water, and mixed to break up the lumps. I swallowed the mixture. I rinsed my mouth with 1/4 cup of water, and swallowed that as well. I started my stop watch, put ear plugs in my ears, attached an eye mask, and sat on my couch in darkness and silence.

11' Slight itching
17' Vague visuals. Am I imagining things?
26' A single wave of warmth
33' I stopped the experiment. My breathing had become regular, and I was in danger of falling asleep!

A few minutes later, I had to go to the toilet to urinate, and I had to put on my jacket, because I was getting cold. These are typical physiological effects when I consume salvia. The visuals and wave of warmth arrived in the reverse order to what I am accustomed.

Conclusion: The micellar structure of my starch powder is quite fragile, and doesn't survive the ordeal of traveling through my stomach. It appears that the HPBCD complex is far more robust.

 

[Jees]

^^^ So that was a dull one. It must thus be assimilated in the mouth, not by the digestive trajectory.

 

[Loveall]

Thank you very much Zebbie.

We need to do repeats of HPBCD to verify the oral result. So far only have one data point on drinking it from one person. Need to do repeats to confirm, etc. I need to get on this and I promised physics envy more work is comming, just need to wrap up the mushroom work that has been going on for almost a year now.

 

[Zebbie]

According to a paper I read, for most sublingual drugs, 80% of the drug is absorbed in the first two minutes (See Posts #32 and #33). Does this apply to my starch powders as well? Only one way to find out!

I decided to add 30 seconds extra for dissolution, and an extra minute for absorption. I would put the powder under my tongue, wait precisely 3 minutes and 30 seconds, and swallow. I would not rinse my mouth, but would sit quietly and see what happened.

I weighed out 200mg of powder made in Post #39. I put it under my tongue, and started the stop watch, and sat on my couch in darkness and silence.

3'30" I swallowed the paste, but did not rinse my mouth.
+/- 8' (don't know for sure) Trip begins
32' Emerged after intense trip, re-submerged
57' Trip ended. From 32' to 57', re-submerged 3 times, each time becoming lighter and more aware of surroundings.

Sitting still waiting for the trip to begin felt very odd. Normally I sit very still AFTER the trip begins. So I missed timing the sequence of itching - warmth - trip begins. But the sequence and timing was similar to what I am accustomed to with this powder consumed the normal way, i.e. waiting for the trip to begin before swallowing.

*************************​

Edit: This is an important difference between quidded whole leaf and the starch powders.

When you quid whole leaf, there is a gradual release of salvinorin particles into the saliva, and from there, to the mucous membrane. So the onset is slow, and you have to keep the quid in your mouth for a long time.

With the starch powders, all of the salvinorin is immediately available. You don't have to keep unpleasant stuff in your mouth for long. Almost instant gratification!

 

[physics envy]

That is great to know that one only needs hold the liquid in their mouth for a few short minutes. That will make it much easier to lie down on a bed to get comfortable for the duration of a trip

Thank you for conducting that experiment!

 

[Zebbie]

A fellow Nexian sent me a PM. He said that he had difficulty sourcing acetone in the country he lives in, and wondered whether the tek could be carried out with only IPA or ethanol.

Solubility of salvinorin A in 91% IPA is about 0.5mg/ml. This is about 40 times lower solubility than in acetone. Assuming my leaf contains 3mg salvinorin A per gram, I would need 30ml of 91% IPA to dissolve all the salvinorin in 5g of leaf ( 3x5/0.5 = 30).

I use 30 + 20 + 20 grams of IPA for my 3 pulls, so theoretically I should have enough IPA to dissolve all the salvinorin. But there are other factors that will affect the extraction. The viscosity of IPA is considerably higher than that of acetone, so it won't penetrate the trichomes as well as acetone. However, if you heat the IPA, the viscosity drops.

Viscosity of acetone at 20°C = 0.33 cP

Viscosity of IPA at 0°C = 4.6 cP
Viscosity of IPA at 20°C = 2.4 cP
Viscosity of IPA at 40°C = 1.3 cP

The viscosity of 91% IPA is slightly higher than pure IPA, but the temperature trend is the same. Surface tension for acetone is similar to that for IPA.

The vapour pressure for IPA at 50°C is about 200 millibar, nothing to get excited about. I can heat it to 50°C in a small sealed glass bottle, without the bottle breaking.

1. I ground 5g of dried salvia leaf, put it into a small glass bottle, and added 30g of 91% IPA.
2. I put the bottle into a water bath at 50 - 55°C for 15 minutes.
3. I decanted the solution, and added 20g 91% IPA, reheating to 50^C for 15 minutes.
4. I repeated this one more time.
5. I poured the combined solutions onto a shallow glass plate. I added 1g corn starch, and evaporated to dryness. (I used a portable fan blowing overnight across the glass plate.)
6. I scraped the powder together as best I could. The solution had formed a waxy green ring around the vertical edge of the plate. This was difficult to scrape off. I added a little more starch to absorb the waxy green ring. Next time, I will re-wet the powder with a little IPA, and move the damp powder around the plate to recover all the waxy material.
7. Total weight 1.77g. I put the powder into a small plastic container, and put the container into the freezer.

Test coming up soon!

 

[Jees]

That pulled tone is like pure green liquid emerald :shock: how nice a color!