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Enlightenment

Migrated topic.
Let Life be Life. Let it go its way. Look closely what happens and in every moment you will discover joy, fulfilment and happiness that springs from your heart and radiates on reality, making it shine. Be the one that is not but truly be there. There is nothing to achieve except this moment. This moment of very happening.
All your thoughts, all your emotions, all your actions are bended together into one reality with all your perception but is it really yours or you are just looking at it as it moves, twists and colours?
You are the witness of it all, not the doer, not the maker but true perceiver. Not even your "I" belongs to you but is an object of the mind. How there can be you, if all that is, simply is and it is going its way toward unknown with you in it but still out of it?
Everything that is arises in front of you spontaneously and all that is just as you have no substance in it. It is simply void transcending itself, fulfilling its space with many objects, forms, travelling through time, made by itself. Be there and all will be clear for you.
There are no questions. There are no answers. Simply perception, pure observation and no one have ever seen it but it simply is and you are it, manifesting as a being of the mind.
 
Aeternus said:
What is Enlightenment?
Is there any way of verbalising it?
How to become Enlightened?
Is it even possible to be Enlightened?
Is it just subjective sense or objective state that anyone can achive?
Is Enlightenment relative in anyway?
Is it worth or necessery to achive?
What dose being Enlightened and Enlightenment itself mean for you?
:)
Click to expand...

In my opinion it can't be verbalized, rather than say what it is, i feel i can only say what it is not.

I feel it is possible to Be awakened, but it is impossible to become awakened, as when we awaken (just like from our dreams every night) we awaken to a reality which is already present, so it is not something you really become, you wake up as you already are beyond your dreams.

I don't believe that it is an objective state as it is ultimately the realization of one's very nature, so it must be the essence of subjectivity itself.

Many have said that earnestness determines to what degree you awaken which makes a lot of sense, i don't think anyone can be convinced by someone other than themself whether it's worthy of pursuing, from the perspective of the cumulative mind which says moar is better, it can appear a worthless pursuit.

Whether it's necessary? I can see how increasing Self-knowledge could be necessary for the survival of the human species... and if you truly yearn to wake up then it can feel very necessary, even if that's also ultimately a dream.

If we build 'it' up in our minds as being a state that isn't already here then we make it into something, we distance it from ourselves, so being enlightened to me would mean absolutely nothing.
 
Alternative theory: we are already enlightened, and the idea that enlightenment is some unique state of consciousness is a lie we tell ourselves because letting go is scary.

Blessings
~ND
 
Nathanial.Dread said:
Alternative theory: we are already enlightened, and the idea that enlightenment is some unique state of consciousness is a lie we tell ourselves because letting go is scary.

Blessings
~ND
Click to expand...
Enlightenment is not a theory but what you say is true, it is the most ordinary state of being, the basis for all the rest. We can say there is no Enlightenment cause we already are that which creates Enlightenment but approaching it from person-hood we can have an experience of the great discovery that is Enlightenment, which is illusion of course because everything was set up from the beginning.
Anyway path toward self inquiry and self consciousness bring you more peace, love and happiness.
One can say that we are already it but how pure is it and how much person is there?
With or without being in pure enlightened nature, more or less entangled in the mind projections, everything is as simply is and cannot be other way cause it already is.
Knowing the basis of your existence is a redemption from imaginary suffering and deep transcendence of Life forces within you, connecting them into one and complete being in full conscious maturity.
 
Hahah all you humans and your games... are you all having fun playing with yourself?

It is fun reading all this; another form of "entertainment"..

This is what enlightment is, No! This is what it is, ad infinitum etc etc..

The self always manages to continuously allure Itself through many such discourses and "games".



None of what you are all trying to speak of from your own subjective experiences can even come close to being "quantified", don't even bother trying;

People like Rising Spirit and a few others know of the game that is being played here 😁


Don't take yourselves too seriously :lol:

Those that have had a taste of so "called" states know how they do not provide answers just more questions. It is one giant game or "play".

Its fun aint it?

I sure had a good time reading many of my own posts( I am you)





I AM YOU and I am here to remind you that

YOU KNOW NOTHING....

:thumb_up:


LIVE it
BE it

<3

I Love you ALL
 
Who you really are!

Most of what is trying to be conveyed here is admirable but it is beyond the MIND and words.


That doesn't mean we cant keep trying!



after all we are all here to play :)
 
cire113 said:
Hahah all you humans and your games... are you all having fun playing with yourself?

It is fun reading all this; another form of "entertainment"..

This is what enlightment is, No! This is what it is, ad infinitum etc etc..

The self always manages to continuously allure Itself through many such discourses and "games".

None of what you are all trying to speak of from your own subjective experiences can even come close to being "quantified", don't even bother trying;

People like Rising Spirit and a few others know of the game that is being played here 😁

Don't take yourselves too seriously :lol:

Those that have had a taste of so "called" states know how they do not provide answers just more questions. It is one giant game or "play".

Its fun aint it?

I sure had a good time reading many of my own posts( I am you)

I AM YOU and I am here to remind you that

YOU KNOW NOTHING....

:thumb_up:


LIVE it
BE it

<3

I Love you ALL
Click to expand...

Words are not the actions, description is not the experience, suggestions are not the conclusions, interpretations are not the meaning, indication is not the path, nor question and answers are there. Love is the best course because in love everything dissolves into one, which is you.
Play is always there but compassion is the most expression of it.
Don't be so arrogant and ignorant by saying "you" cause there is none. :p
Don't judge through discriminating others by uplifting the few, we are all one. <3
Don't set a reason to approve your crusade.
Don't say what to do and what not to do, let all express itself.
There is not even I so how can you be I?
Who there is to know? Who there is to Love?
What there is to be "quantified"? Who there is to try?
What there is to have fun of? Is there any fun? Is there any state?
Questions are set by not being the answer but they come from the answer. :p
 
^^^^^^

Be Love.

You are sure playing an interesting game.... :lol:

What you said is what I would've probably said years ago when I was fooling myself with yet another game called "spiritual bypass"...

So funny to me; its like a past version of myself responding back.

Well you are ME so... really nothing to say except


Enjoy the journey... :thumb_up:

and you don't Remember why you came here do you? 😉
 
"Don't be so arrogant and ignorant by saying "you" cause there is none. Razz
Don't judge through discriminating others by uplifting the few, we are all one. <3
Don't set a reason to approve your crusade.
Don't say what to do and what not to do, let all express itself.
There is not even I so how can you be I?
Who there is to know? Who there is to Love?
What there is to be "quantified"? Who there is to try?
What there is to have fun of? Is there any fun? Is there any state?"


This logic can also lead to very ungrounded and unhealthy ideas that people hold in an attempt to be spiritual, but miss the core of what that even is. It's a fine line.

I think there is a you. I think discrimination and discernment are crucial for the mystic to learn to utilize. There is an I. I. You can quantify, even if it is subjective.

Sometimes you need to just forget the yoga mat, stop meditating, grab a bottle of wine, a book of poetry and run off to a silent meadow somewhere with a beautiful woman(or man?) and watch the sun set...isn't that fun? Often that is far more nourishing than mental exercises quantifying the existence of an I.

It's a lot of mental masterbation..and sounds like emptiness but it's not, it's just a bunch of ideas people attach to with little value to the mystic when removed from the reality of your life, here..now.

The true beauty of form arises from within those experiences, which render the yearning towards emptiness obsolete..for the emptiness is within the form, and the beauty is for you to behold..in that moment. Forever. Fornever.

You do, have a choice in this.
 
cire113 said:
^^^^^^

Be Love.

You are sure playing an interesting game.... :lol:

What you said is what I would've probably said years ago when I was fooling myself with yet another game called "spiritual bypass"...

So funny to me; its like a past version of myself responding back.

Well you are ME so... really nothing to say except


Enjoy the journey... :thumb_up:

and you don't Remember why you came here do you? 😉
Click to expand...

There is no I, only presence. Therefore here is no goal, nor there.
I am here to be. Everything else is a spontaneous play of existence.
There is no spirituality, only presence. Therefore every division is an illusion.
There is nothing to be or not to be. Therefore nothing to name or speak about.
Anyway I am playing with you and that makes it interesting. If there is such a adjective thing. :p
 
jamie said:
"Don't be so arrogant and ignorant by saying "you" cause there is none. Razz
Don't judge through discriminating others by uplifting the few, we are all one. <3
Don't set a reason to approve your crusade.
Don't say what to do and what not to do, let all express itself.
There is not even I so how can you be I?
Who there is to know? Who there is to Love?
What there is to be "quantified"? Who there is to try?
What there is to have fun of? Is there any fun? Is there any state?"


This logic can also lead to very ungrounded and unhealthy ideas that people hold in an attempt to be spiritual, but miss the core of what that even is. It's a fine line.

I think there is a you. I think discrimination and discernment are crucial for the mystic to learn to utilize. There is an I. I. You can quantify, even if it is subjective.

Sometimes you need to just forget the yoga mat, stop meditating, grab a bottle of wine, a book of poetry and run off to a silent meadow somewhere with a beautiful woman(or man?) and watch the sun set...isn't that fun? Often that is far more nourishing than mental exercises quantifying the existence of an I.

It's a lot of mental masterbation..and sounds like emptiness but it's not, it's just a bunch of ideas people attach to with little value to the mystic when removed from the reality of your life, here..now.

The true beauty of form arises from within those experiences, which render the yearning towards emptiness obsolete..for the emptiness is within the form, and the beauty is for you to behold..in that moment. Forever. Fornever.


You do, have a choice in this.
Click to expand...

It is not ungrounded, it is empty of everything.
Who have a choice? If choice is a projection that moves through a form which expresses it and is an expression of the highest presence? Is a choice not a spontaneous decision to manifest?
What there is to nourish? If not only human projection?
There is nothing to hold but game to be played. :p
 
jamie said:
Feeling>Thinking.

Articulating the thing, is not the thing. It is a mental exercise.


Dance in a circle.
Click to expand...

Feeling = Thinking
Setting something above is a projection and is seen from a projection.
Articulation is made of things so articulating as a whole is a thing.
All is a thing object upon consciousness.
Every form is presence itself but also a thing in front of presence.
 
jamie said:
Feeling>Thinking.

Articulating the thing, is not the thing. It is a mental exercise.


Dance in a circle.
Click to expand...

I think Jamie had it right.

Feeling is direct perception, thinking has a layer of abstraction. Standing by a lake, I can think about the water all I like, but I don't feel the water until I get into it.

Aeternus, I get that you are being ruthless in your parsing, but with feeling, there is no need even to parse.

Descartes has a lot to answer for. The brain is not the only data-processing center in town. We talk about 'gut feelings' and pounding hearts. The heart and the gut have sophisticated neural networks of their own (which operate independently of whatever is going on in the 'control room',) which we have been taught, deliberately, to reject, because it is politically and socially expedient to do so. When you ask a Westerner to point to where 'they' are inside their body, they invariably point to their head, yet most indigenous people will point to the centre of their chest.

It's not 'setting something above' another thing, it's drinking water versus looking at it.
 
Man From Chan Chan said:
jamie said:
Feeling>Thinking.

Articulating the thing, is not the thing. It is a mental exercise.


Dance in a circle.
Click to expand...

I think Jamie had it right.

Feeling is direct perception, thinking has a layer of abstraction. Standing by a lake, I can think about the water all I like, but I don't feel the water until I get into it.

Aeternus, I get that you are being ruthless in your parsing, but with feeling, there is no need even to parse.

Descartes has a lot to answer for. The brain is not the only data-processing center in town. We talk about 'gut feelings' and pounding hearts. The heart and the gut have sophisticated neural networks of their own (which operate independently of whatever is going on in the 'control room',) which we have been taught, deliberately, to reject, because it is politically and socially expedient to do so. When you ask a Westerner to point to where 'they' are inside their body, they invariably point to their head, yet most indigenous people will point to the centre of their chest.

It's not 'setting something above' another thing, it's drinking water versus looking at it.
Click to expand...

No versus. What I was pointing to is something very different than your answer.
It can not be described anyhow but the closest thing is oneness with no subject/object division.
One who cannot see it simply cannot understand it.
One who seen dose know it but still forgets it.
One who see it simply becomes it in a single moment of occurrence.
You are all right but being right is a relative projection.
Peace. |-)
 
After I posted, I thought about adding a PS, because, yeah, certainly, some would say that me and the lake are one, which is a whole other thing, and closer to the title of the thread.

But I've just had a productive day in consensus reality, so I'm fine with subjective duality for now, and I'd love to dive in a lake :d
 
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