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Experiential Differences RE: DMT w/THC vs. Without

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Phantom462

Rising Star
I've noticed that DMT used with or directly after ingestion of THC changes the experience. DMT with no THC onboard tends to leave the "self" intact, completely aware of who you are and how bonkers the experience is as it's happening. DMT either ingested with THC as a buffer or DMT ingested directly after ingestion of THC seems to produce an experience that completely strips the self... I assume this is ego death?

Can someone offer some guidance and or experience here?
 
That's interesting, I had not thought of it that way. I find THC to be very focusing in certain aspects, well, focusing in that it allows you to bring complex information together in way's very difficult without it... that has been my experience anyway. Have had some great ideas that I've written down and actually did turn out to be some good ideas... the sort that you muse with on a completely sober mind and dismiss due to overcomplexity or some other incredulous thing. So, THC / DMT is a path toward an ego death experience with a psychedelic (N,N) that is not generally known for ego death?
 
Maybe this serves more to highlight how we're all different. I was going to say cannabis never seemed to make me terribly productive, but I may have become even less productive since stopping. Hmm..

I can't really comment on ego death since I'm pretty certain it never happened to me, or at least I've never noticed if it did.

Some people have related that cannabis makes DMT more 'cloudy', and also that it can contribute to freakouts on LSD, btw.
 
Cannabis energy feels sticky to me. I doubt that it gives some extra focus. It widens our perspective, akin to adding peripheral vision to what we see.
I've only had some real paranoia-like states while using cannabis, and would never mix it with DMT. Memory loss of your personal history is not ego death.

Why even chase that state when the ego, by definition, can't experience it? You can only know afterward that you've experienced it, and even that depends on the maturity of your awareness. You experience ego death each night during deep sleep. Do you notice it? How would DMT be different? Reaching a blackout is much easier, and it's most likely an ego death without you recognizing it, similar to deep sleep. Just smoke and let go of any seeking. Set a simple intention and let it guide you ;)
 
I've actually never consumed DMT while high on THC, so I'm not really an authority at all on this subject.

But I can say that DMT by itself has deleted the self quite a few times. Experiences with no memory of this life, further still, no memory of what a self even is, have been some of the most challenging for me.
 
northape said:
Cannabis energy feels sticky to me. I doubt that it gives some extra focus. It widens our perspective, akin to adding peripheral vision to what we see.
I've only had some real paranoia-like states while using cannabis, and would never mix it with DMT
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I have to disagree. Cannabis has offered me the most profound trip of my life, greater than DMT even. It enhances my creativity massively. Allows for deep introspection. Taken in sufficient quantity, in edible format alongside solitary meditation, for me it is often a genuine realm switching experience.
 
Cannabis works very differently for people. I've seen it in my friends who used it. It leaves me lifeless and stuck, whereas others get energized and creative.
I ended my relationship with it after much struggle. And yes, I had one real journey where the whole world disappeared. This plant has a lot of potential, but it's not my ally.
Edit: I love the plant, but I need to be careful with it.
 
Transform said:
Something I've noticed from cannabis use is a credulity towards one's own delusions. Perhaps there's a parallel here, in how THC produces an 'ungrounding' effect, maybe leading to a greater ease of loss of sense of self?
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I believe all plants/substances that we call psychedelic make one prone to illusions. Relaxing the borders to thinking and perceiving is a neutral thing with both positive and negative sides to it. Things that could not pass the filter of legitimacy before can now pass, as well as certain feelings or convictions feeling absolutely overwhelming. İt requires a great maturity/wisdom to properly evaluate the substance of truth in these new perceptions both during and after the experiences. I strive to just experience everything in a detached way during the experience, though it is not easy as often ones whole heart and soul is engaged in the experience. I'm no expert on cannabis but my outsider impression is that it does not have a good track record in supporting people to stay loyal to the truth.
 
dithyramb said:
I'm no expert on cannabis but my outsider impression is that it does not have a good track record in supporting people to stay loyal to the truth.
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For me, cannabis was never about spiritual aspiration or personal development. No matter how I tried to push it in that direction, it only gave me relaxation and an in-your-face, harsh reality skewed toward self-judgment. Perhaps parting ways with it was the biggest lesson.
 
I didn't really mean to bash on cannabis here - it's been a companion - accomplice, even - to some highly entertaining times over the decades. Like any other tool it's a matter of knowing when to use it - and, perhaps more importantly, when not to.

It was very helpful for becoming fully immersed in theatrics as part of an ostensibly creative process, for example.
 
Transform said:
I didn't really mean to bash on cannabis here
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I don't want anyone to misunderstand. I love and respect cannabis. However, it's not for everyone. Admittedly, I was in a bad spot in life at the time of my usage.
Cannabis never provided any help or solution. I feel it could be an aid when all of your affairs are in order, and you have a very solid psyche.
Most likely, if I had been introduced to it under different circumstances, my reactions would have been healthier and more favorable.
Viva la Santa Maria 🙏
 
fink said:
It's so easy to abuse cannabis. I've been there. It took years addiction followed by years of abstinence to learn to respect and grow with this plant. The addiction is always just around the corner from positive use for me.
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Very much so. Time and again I've had a prolonged break from the herb, and then one merry old reintroductory session that led me to throwing self discipline back out the window and chasing that same old jolly green dragon once more. Admittedly, the diminutive proportions of my self discipline made throwing all the easier 😂
 
Be wary of the High Elf lifestyle :ROFLMAO:

 
Trying to touch on all subjects, feel free to skip something if it's not relevant because I might write too much :/

The only time i smoked DMT by itself it was with cannabis so i can't really say, but with changa my experience has been different. I didn't really notice much difference except for maybe a faster / more blurry quality of the experience with THC in the mix. My most profound experiences have been without cannabis but it's because when I added cannabis I didn't aim for a strong experience in the first place.

There are different kinds of experience that are similar to ego death and even defined as ego death by different people.
One of these is the experience of forgetting who we are meaning our personal history, even that we are human, but we still have a sense of "selfhood". Sometimes there's even the experience of becoming someone or something else.
There is also the experience of completely forgetting all concepts and being left just with observing awareness, seeing things as they are without making them "mind-objects".
There is also the experience of becoming existence and in this experience it's like the personal self expands and becomes a cosmic self.
There is also the experience of having no perception at all and basically not existing (i never experienced it but it has been reported, or maybe it's just that people forget)
And then there is the experience that imo is the closest to the "ego death" name in which there is no independent self, but it doesn't mean that one stops existing nor that it becomes a cosmic self.

Speaking about cannabis and psychedelics i found that cannabis has the effect of making me perceive thoughts that are normally subconscious (/unconscious?) and it could give some or a lot of anxiety. While cannabis by itself was very variable and i had very deep and insightful experiences but also ones with paranoia and self-judgement. Once i smoked a big chiloom when i was still a teenager and i had basically a psychedelic trip where the room i was in and the people i was with were hyperreal and i couldn't think of or remember anything else existing beyond that. In retrospect it was pretty DMT-like. But the closest thing to pure THC i tried was BHO and i was glued to a couch for hours drinking juice while seeing everything happening around me as if it was a movie.
 
CosmicRiver said:
There are different kinds of experience that are similar to ego death and even defined as ego death by different people.
One of these is the experience of forgetting who we are meaning our personal history, even that we are human, but we still have a sense of "selfhood". Sometimes there's even the experience of becoming someone or something else.
There is also the experience of completely forgetting all concepts and being left just with observing awareness, seeing things as they are without making them "mind-objects".
There is also the experience of becoming existence and in this experience it's like the personal self expands and becomes a cosmic self.
There is also the experience of having no perception at all and basically not existing (i never experienced it but it has been reported, or maybe it's just that people forget)
And then there is the experience that imo is the closest to the "ego death" name in which there is no independent self, but it doesn't mean that one stops existing nor that it becomes a cosmic self.
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Exactly. Ego death is more like a spectrum of experience. Conscious ego death would lead to an awakening to our true nature. I see no Buddhas even among 5-MeO-DMT users. Obviously, I would need to be one to judge, but you got my point. I think we're still operating inside ego boundaries. When you can retain awareness during a blackout or deep sleep, we can talk about real ego death territory. Fear is a good guide here. When you feel fear during your ego death experience, you're most likely moving on the spectrum.

I feel that psychedelics are not the answer, but more like guideposts on the way. They can show you an approximation of what's possible. However, the last push should be made with your own willpower. The ego looks for its origin until the light of grace burns it. What remains is what always is.
🙏
 
northape said:
Exactly. Ego death is more like a spectrum of experience. Conscious ego death would lead to an awakening to our true nature. I see no Buddhas even among 5-MeO-DMT users. Obviously, I would need to be one to judge, but you got my point. I think we're still operating inside ego boundaries. When you can retain awareness during a blackout or deep sleep, we can talk about real ego death territory. Fear is a good guide here. When you feel fear during your ego death experience, you're most likely moving on the spectrum.

I feel that psychedelics are not the answer, but more like guideposts on the way. They can show you an approximation of what's possible. However, the last push should be made with your own willpower. The ego looks for its origin until the light of grace burns it. What remains is what always is.
🙏
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From my point of view it sometimes happens to awaken during psychedelic experiences, but it happens in such a sudden way that the ego comes back in right away and conceptualizes it so it gets lost and the person is left with a feeling more than a memory of the experience. I think that it can't even be remembered as a memory but only re-experienced.
Somewhere i have read that when among zen practitioners these brief sudden awakening experiences happen, they get taught to observe how the indipendent self comes back in order to deepen the insight and eventually attain definitive awakening.
 
CosmicRiver said:
From my point of view it sometimes happens to awaken during psychedelic experiences, but it happens in such a sudden way that the ego comes back in right away and conceptualizes it so it gets lost and the person is left with a feeling more than a memory of the experience. I think that it can't even be remembered as a memory but only re-experienced.
Somewhere i have read that when among zen practitioners these brief sudden awakening experiences happen, they get taught to observe how the indipendent self comes back in order to deepen the insight and eventually attain definitive awakening.
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My conclusion is that people focus on the wrong target. Ego death is easy, but being fully aware of it is not. As you pointed out, when it happens, we don't notice and are just left with doubts or concepts. Little by little, we train in recognizing what's happening. The secret is to relax into it and not resist. It's like the first and biggest lesson of psychedelics, which can lead you all the way. Who is experiencing ego death?
 
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