Extract or Ayahuasca for the self-improvement of a bleeding heart philosopher?

[fuzzyman]

I have posted before but unfortunately I never got around to extracting. I have time now but my motives have changed. I'm more about enlightenment, awareness, and centering myself now and that would be the primary motive in this adventure. For a while I never considered Ayahuasca as an option until I realized my changed motives. I plan to breakthrough the once and leave it be for a period, whichever method I choose. Having no experience nor friends with experience I am looking for advice on which path to take based on my situation in life and in psychedelics, and also advice on self-preparation.

To be brief, I grew up under very different circumstances than those around me and my brain chemistry seems to be quite different as a result. I was literally brainwashed with unhealthy ideas on sex and love until two years ago when I broke free and gradually started appreciating the less superficial things. I got into all kinds of science and philosophy and world issues and now I want to either live sustainably off the grid or dedicate my life to relieving suffering just to help as many as I can, realizing that humanity's self-destruction is inevitable. These goals may change, just saying that's in my current horizons.

With drugs in the past, I was able to handle salvia decently but a moderate dose of Cubensis had me very anxious as I had time to reflect too much on myself. Since then I've have great experiences with lower doses but haven't revisited a moderate dose yet. With other long term psychedelics I have been very much hit-or-miss in regards to good/bad trips, although I may be more stable now having meditated a little more often.

So I have to decide between an extraction and Ayahuasca. I understand that Ayahuasca focuses on healing and I'm down for that, and the accompanied suffering, if it is generally agreed that a beginner can handle a light-medium dose alone. If I choose it it will happen around 6 AM in a usually empty park after having meditated in the same park for 2-4 weeks. Those are my best options for it. I have always hated and feared vomiting and have a weak stomach. The fear of vomiting I suppose will be another thing to overcome but my weak stomach might be a problem if it is required to hold the drink in for a period of time so I could use tips on that. As for an extraction, the only thing to note is I read about freebase DMT's anti-suicidal overtones and would be interested in that. I haven't been consciously suicidal in many months but I haven't been the best. If Ayahuasca can have similar properties then this can be disregarded.

Right now I don't have a preference out of the two. My laziness wants to choose Aya because it is easier to make than it is to extract DMT. My philosophical side wants an extract to have my mind extra-dimensionally blown. But coming down to it I want to make the choice that is best for me now. If you've read all of this thank you and I hope this is enough to formulate feedback on.

fuzzy

 

[jamie]

For personal growth/healing/insight in the long term I find ayahuasca ideal compared to freebase DMT and changa. Now, I have smoked DMT hundreds of times so I am definatily not saying dont smoke DMT, but I seem to have come to a point where smoking is somehow less than ideal and I find myself more and more in awe of ayahuasca. I tend to grow more from my ayahuasca experiences and it is a much greater anti depressant/afterglow than with vaped DMT.

I learned alot from vaping DMT..I smoked it daily for the better portion of a year at one point and it is definatily something that will always be with me, but still I find that the experience lacks something that is present in ayahuasca..a certain kind of elegance in the way the experience is expressed. Funny, I went from oral tryptamines, mainly psilocin to smoked DMT. I preferred to smoke for some time, yet now I find myself back in full appreciation of oral tryptamines. I guess there are stages of growth that require different things.

I would think that ayahuasca would be more anti-suicidal than freebase DMT..but really if someone is deeply suicidal to the point where they are really concidering it and not just depressed I would be cautious when approaching any psychedelic, for obvious reasons.

 

[polytrip]

Ayahuasca is the most beautifull thing there is in my opinion. Fear is something you have to overcome. Ayahuasca could be as frightening as shrooms but you shouldn't fear it. I've had moments of fear as well. It just takes a little discipline but every fear can be overcome.

 

[Existentialhero]

If you are truly battling suicidal tendencies then the best option is always to seek profesional help. In regards to the more shamonic healing approach I think you and I are looking to get some of the same things out of our experiences. I have decided that for me and I think for you as well either ayhuasca or pharmhuasca would be the best bet. I chose those options because they include MAOI's where as vaping DMT does not. MAOI's will allow you to have highier levels of "happy chemicals" in the brain by preventing Monoamineoxidase enzymes from breaking them down. This will prove very helpful both in the short and long run. If your really looking to be your own phsychiatrist you could even try a daily regimen of MAOI's but I have not read much about people doing this so you would be journying out into unknown territory. Out of either ayhuasca or pharmhuasca Im going with pharma because the nausea in ayhuasca takes away from the experience for me. Hope every thing works out for you be sure to post your results:d

 

[fuzzyman]

Thank you for the quick feedback. It looks like I'm going with Ayahuasca then. I definitely am beginning to appreciate oral psychedelics in general, and I want to get into them again but I need and want to space it out months apart, and this would start after this journey.

About the suicide it's just a small thing these days. I didn't mean I need a savior right now. I overcame most of it already and it's only a secondary concern in this decision. Just that I could use a little more appreciation for life, but then we all can I guess. You know I almost forget that less than 6 months ago I was half sure I would kill myself by now as the climax of a pre-planned blaze of selfish binging and spending. Now I'm certain I want to live as long as existence will have me. Anyways if Ayahuasca is even better for depression, that's all the better.

I forgot about pharmahuasca. I originally discounted it for arbitrarily preferring the "real deal" and I think I will still go this route for the same arbitrary preference, but if I fail because of nausea I'll give it a try.

Thank you guys I'll post if I have any more questions and I'll post my results when I get them.

 

[fuzzyman]

Though I forgot I have more questions... I can and want to fast for 12 hours to a day prior, is this okay or would it screw up the purging effect and screw up my journey for some reason?

Also I mentioned I would do this in a park, would it be unwise to do this? Without a sitter? I know the park relatively well. I'm picking a time when others aren't so likely to be there. If others arrive, the park is right next to a forest trail that I can wander into. I can bring a puke bucket and cans of water with me. It's walking distance from my apartment.

And that should be all I need to know. Thanks.

 

[Global]

If you want to fast 12 hours prior, there's nothing wrong with that. Shouldn't screw anything up. I don't know if I fast a full 12 hours before, but it's often something close to that.

Here's the thing about the park. If you decide to do this I would recommend puking in your apartment and then walking to the park. Furthermore, motion can often become somewhat difficult on oral DMT and I find it harder to conceal the fact I "took something" on ayahuasca as compared with acid or something like that. I have done it in the past though, especially when it wasn't hitting me so hard, but if it's a powerful experience, at the peak, there'd be no way people wouldn't be able to tell something wasn't up. The experience is really unpredictable and varies greatly from person to person and even day to day, so it's hard to say. Could turn out to be great. I would maybe keep a local friend on speed dial in case you do need to call someone for assistance.

 

[fuzzyman]

Walking would be fair enough, good idea. I'd choose this over an my apartment because I have 5 roommates. I have a fair amount of experience acting sober on various substances too, and worst scenario is a cop thinks I'm drunk anyway, since I wouldn't have anything on me I wouldn't be worried. Of course that would be a struggle for the trip but a cop giving a fuck or even driving past is unlikely anyway.

I could do the speed dial thing too, Ask a friend to call at a certain time, etc.

Okay thanks, now I'm good, hope to get back with good news next month.

 

[polytrip]

Though I forgot I have more questions... I can and want to fast for 12 hours to a day prior, is this okay or would it screw up the purging effect and screw up my journey for some reason?

Also I mentioned I would do this in a park, would it be unwise to do this? Without a sitter? I know the park relatively well. I'm picking a time when others aren't so likely to be there. If others arrive, the park is right next to a forest trail that I can wander into. I can bring a puke bucket and cans of water with me. It's walking distance from my apartment.

And that should be all I need to know. Thanks.

Fasting isn't nessecary. Just don't drink any alcohol, because that would cause a terrible headache.

I think fasting could actually worsen the puking and ruin the experience. A totally empty stomach is much more sensitive and the acidic level of the stomach could become too high when ingesting an acidic (tannins are hard on the stomach by themselves) brew, wich would make you puke it all out before anything has entered the bloodstream. A light meal a few hours before taking the brew will give the most pleasant experience.

 

[SWIMfriend]

fuzzyman,

It seems to me that you are expressing a CLEAR reluctance, and are trying to push yourself beyond the reluctance. That makes me wary of your plans.

Why not continue as you have been, of slowly ramping up doses of things you can handle, until you can make yourself comfortable with more powerful experiences? I think you've been wise so far in going that route; why not continue that way?

 

[jamie]

^ I would second that. Before I drank with admixtures I drank caapi only brews for a while and many nights was completely taken with those brews..some of the most profound visions I ever had have been with caapi only ayahuasca brews..when I started to add admixture I began with very low doses of chaliponga and then mimosa as well. There is no rush and working over a longer period this way I find tends to be more benificial in the end.

It wasnt like I was inexperienced either. I was quite experienced at that point with heavy doses of mushrooms and salvia divinorum..still harmala only experiences challenged me at times..and still do. A large dose of harmalas can be quite alarming at times, especially if admixture is added..not something that is necessarily easy to jump into.

 

[christian]

Fuzzyman, the suicide bit is still concerning me. Whilst i'm not doubting ayahuascas potential to transform ones life, i cannot overlook the fact that if one has not made positive lifestyle changes such as healthy living,eating , exercising, creating goals,etc-then one will sooner or later find oneself return to those suicidal feelings??

-Just my 5 pence!

 

[fuzzyman]

It seems to me that you are expressing a CLEAR reluctance, and are trying to push yourself beyond the reluctance. That makes me wary of your plans.

Why not continue as you have been, of slowly ramping up doses of things you can handle, until you can make yourself comfortable with more powerful experiences? I think you've been wise so far in going that route; why not continue that way?

I read this the day after you posted and thought about it since then... For one I didn't consider the difference in approach with Aya, as before I considered it I thought I would be extracting, and the advice I'd read about for that was to jump in lightly. But having read a little more since I see your point. And the other thing, I believe you've spotted my impatience. :/ I don't know I need to get going on a project tonight but in short it's hard to deny your reasoning the way you put it. Maybe I was under the impression that it wasn't a big deal for someone with less than moderate experience to jump in so long as they prepared correctly. But even if it isn't there really is no rush and I knew that already with my plans to leave it be after the first time for a while but... eh.. assumptions I guess.

:lol: You know this is the third time I've come here planning to pop my cherry? Both previous times I got lazy/busy with school, this time I actually have time and you guys are convincing me otherwise. But you're probably right, maybe I'll stick with mushrooms for a while or try a little caapi drink.

Fuzzyman, the suicide bit is still concerning me. Whilst i'm not doubting ayahuascas potential to transform ones life, i cannot overlook the fact that if one has not made positive lifestyle changes such as healthy living,eating , exercising, creating goals,etc-then one will sooner or later find oneself return to those suicidal feelings??

Aye, you're reading between the lines a bit much mate and assuming too much.

 

[christian]

Correct, fuzzyman... All i can say is take your time, because you have all the time in the world, and best luck!8)

 

[Global]

Honestly, if you're gonna take mushrooms anyway, I would recommend trying aya if that's what you really wanna do. I find they can be very similar. Also forgive me, but after reading through this whole thread again, I'm not detecting any reluctance. I don't know where that notion was coming from. All I see are questions to make sure everything goes right. I know this is a really sensitive topic, and we've gone back and forth about it on the nexus before, but especially if you feel stable now, it should seem that the DMT experience tends to discourage suicide.

[Edit]: Also I think a small dose of reluctance is the natural reaction to have when you're about to take aya for the first time. I know I was nervous as hell...I mean you're about to submit yourself to a visionary experience that will last a few hours. If you have no reluctance at all, maybe you should do more research

 

[ragabr]

[Edit]: Also I think a small dose of reluctance is the natural reaction to have when you're about to take aya for the first time. I know I was nervous as hell...I mean you're about to submit yourself to a visionary experience that will last a few hours. If you have no reluctance at all, maybe you should do more research

Last a few hours and is commonly known as La Purga!