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Extracting 32g MHRB into DMT Acetate for Pharmahausca - 69ron's method

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GobblinTorch

Rising Star
So I'm quite comfortable with 69ron's mescaline extraction, having produced everything from gooey brown sludge to glistening tan crystals.

I'm currently attempting to produce DMT acetate for oral administration with Harmala alkaloids, but my first two pulls have resulted in far too dry a product.

Theres a lot of white waxy faux-crystals .. sort of what white vinegar by itself looks like when evapped. There is one chunk of reddish-brown honeyish waxy crystalline-like substance amongst the fluffy white flakes of whatever.

I corrected the recipe to scale as follows:
32g MHRB
8g Calcium Hydroxide
80ml water
100ml d-limonene
8ml white vinegar

When I first poured off the d-limonene there was already separation occurring. As in before I added vinegar I saw two layers. One was pretty much clear, the other was off yellow. What's that about? too much water? too little lime?

Assistance would be much appreciated.
 
I'd recommend taking a look at Q21Q21's tek (link in my signature). It is stemmed from both 69ron's mescaline tek and his instructions which you list above. But I think it could explain a little more in detail what to do to get it right as it is specifically for MHRB.

A couple things I can point out:
1:The small amount of lime you mention using. Too much lime is impossible as far as I know for the extraction. I've used over a 2:1 ratio lime to MHRB and had no problems, in fact exactly the same result just needed more water to make it doughy. But I have had an experience with 0% yield when adding about 1:3 Lime to MHRB which was resolved by adding more lime but ended up as a Lime STB (explained in the tek's troubleshooting section)
2:I'm not too clear on how you would get white crystals from d-limonene because salting produces a red-orange goo and evaporating creates an impure more-orange red-orange goo.
3: The limonene should not have 2 layers because the MHRB-lime-mush should absorb any and all water like a sponge.

Sound like you're a smart guy (I failed 69ron's tek 2 times and did it poorly once) so I'm sure you can pick up any details from my tek that you need and I'm home working on a project so I could help you with anything that I know.
Just know my pet peeve is people posting questions about things mentioned EXPLICITLY in the tek.

Good luck!
 
I took a look at the Q21 tek and I ended up reading it all, but not following it because the part where he adds vinegar BEFORE basification just wasn't something I was comfortable with (I can wait 2 days, and I just feel more at home with STB). Plus Boiling water, etc. I prefer to use as little electrical energy as possible in the whole process, I use fans and a blender thats about it. Sometimes the oven at 100 degrees with the door open to evap, but I avoid it.

In retrospect I probably should of just followed Q21's tek as it is very, very detailed. But I think I'm stuck in a STB extraction as it now stands.

1: I added a couple spoonfulls extra lime, as I read the same thing about it being impossible to use too much. Should of weighed it but I did not.
2: I'm not evapping d-limonene here, I'm evapping vinegar which I have separated after agitation from the d-limonene soaks.
3: Very odd. It didn't happen the second time I poured off d-limo from the MHRB mush. But the first pull had 2 layers BEFORE I added vinegar. Definitely a WTF? moment. I ended up adding the second pull of d-limonene (tinged white from added Calcium Hydroxide) and then shaking it like crazy and it became one layer .. until I added vinegar, but that separation is supposed to occur.

P.S. Thanks! I did fail 69rons tek once, but it was because of shitty materials. I still can't seem to determine what determines if I get beautiful tan mescaline acetate or grungy brown stuff which does the same thing but doesn't looke as nice.
 
Figured I'd get a very intelligent response like that one.

Just a couple things (again):
The boiling water and vinegar 1st step probably could be done without heat at all, haven't tried it yet. The reason for the boiling water is that the initial steps before the solvent are identical with the limonene tek and the naptha tek and since the naptha tek needs warmed solvent then boiling water is added there.
More importantly: The step is actually not just for speediness. My yields without it was 0.5%-0.75% (yellow then brown with more pulls with naptha) whereas my yields with it range from 0.9%-1.65% (White with naptha)

Sorry I actually used jargon that might not even have been proper but by "the salting produces" I meant evaporating vinegar which I have never seen crystals from (with DMT).

Once again, good luck!
 
Okay, so since I've already added lime to the mix is there anything preventing me from pouring off the limonene which is currently soaking then doing the following:

1. Adding 30ml of vinegar to the root bark mush (as much liquid removed as possible). Let sit 2 hours. Maybe Add a little more lime/water for consistency.
2. Do a 4th+6th pull with d-limonene on this? (perhaps reusing the limonene I've already pulled with)

Query: Why do you add water + vinegar during the salting procedure.
 
Well that actually wouldn't work. Tried it myself and it entertainingly went as follows:
Added 20... 30.... 100ml of vinegar to the mush trying to get it to turn from grey to reddish and the section where I was pouring would for a second then it would stop. I then curiosly trying adding drops of 34% HCl to try and really raise the PH. 35 ml later I gave up with still-grey mush.
It may be possible but you'd end up with a bunch of calcium acetate which I don't know the properties of and I dunno if it would work without making a massive soup. You might try and do the chemistry math with moles/g of lime and vinegar noting that vinegar is 5% (most) per volume and mostly water.
.75% is not bad at all and the quality of the DMT will be fine. Me, my brother and his fiancé experienced a lot smoking that extraction!

As for your queery you can looked it up for more details, it is a common chemistry procedure but basically:
The DMT freebase (freebased by the lime) is insoluble in water and very soluble in d-limonene. When you add the vinegar (acetic acid) it bonds with the DMT freebase giving DMT-acetate which is insoluble (or sparingly soluble?) in d-limonene and very soluble in water. The DMT-acetate precipitates out as a fog in the d-limonene then shaking the vinegar around dissolve (most of) the DMT in it.
The water is added because multiple pulls are needed and they don't need to be vinegar because the DMT is already in acetate form and is just as soluble in plain water.
(Pardon any inaccurate terms, chemists. I think the basic concept is right though)
 
Yeah, I guess with what I've done I can't really screw it up. One way or another I'm going to end up with DMT in the limonene, at which point when I add vinegar it's going to migrate to that and when I use my seperatory funnel to seperate the bottom layer I'm going to end up with something that contains DMT acetates once I evap it.

It just doesn't look like it should, lots of flaky white-grey-tan wax-like chunks and then a couple small chunks of brown-red stuff with a texture like frozen honey (no freezer involved).

I was under the impression DMT acetate was going to be so hygroscopic(sp?) that I would have difficulty getting it into gel capsules and I was going to have to sort of soak up the liquid with something, but I guess its dry enough to pick up with a razor blade. No dripping. Hmm.

Thanks
 
What temperature are you evaporating it at. I've had caked red-brown stuff before when I left it one at ~130C for about 5 minutes too long but since I store it in liquid I immediately added dropper-fulls of water and dissolved it. Actually the dish still had some caked on it that won't dissolve in hot vinegar or water.

I would say the most likely cause is overheating and maybe destroying some of the DMT in the process. Personally I'd advise evaporating it down to just a few ml watching carefully and removing from heat when it is close, adding more water if needed as you "wash" the dish to get all of it (don't have to be crazy about that)

Worst case: You drink it with some juice to cover the nasty case
Likely case: you put the liquid in the cap right before swallowing before the vinergar/water dissolves it in a few minutes.
 
I actually evaporated it at room temperature. Which is around 20 degrees celcius I'd guess. It's about 28 outside. The only evaporation aid is a fan which I tilt downwards a little so the air is blowing into a pyrex baking dish.

I'm thinking that at 0.75% the likely yield is 240mg. I haven't weighed the red-brown stuff yet, but I imagine it's about .1 or .05 so maybe that's actually the DMT and the white-grey-amber stuff is just calcium hydroxide/vinegar residue. I'll probablly just collect everything from the evap pan in one pile and decide how to deal with it from there. I only need to split it 2-3 ways and precision isn't that important.
 
DMT acetate is a goo when evaporated at room temp and every experience I've ever had with it and like you mentioned it is hygroscopic.
When jimjam or jungle DMT is vaporized there is usually a little residue, maybe 3-5% of the weigh that is left behind. I think the stuff you've got may be primarily that, maybe just a little DMT.

Or maybe using a fan in room temp the way you did crystallizes DMT acetate... I dunno
 
Yeah, I'm a little doubtful this stuff is going to work/be able to be split into multiple doses. I'll definitely bioassay, but I ordered some Mimosa Hostilis so I can try it over again, probably just using your tek word for word. I honestly can't imagine what I did wrong .. its almost like the Mimosa Bark is just incredibly empty of DMT/jimjam.

My salt pulls are just yielding waxy stuff that looks pretty similar to Mescaline Acetate. There was a whole bunch of random waxiness and like two chunks of that red-honey type stuff that looked like it should, but I have no idea how to actually determine what is and isn't a psychedlic alkaloid in my evap pan.

Bah!
 
GobblinTorch said:
Yeah, I'm a little doubtful this stuff is going to work/be able to be split into multiple doses. I'll definitely bioassay, but I ordered some Mimosa Hostilis so I can try it over again, probably just using your tek word for word. I honestly can't imagine what I did wrong .. its almost like the Mimosa Bark is just incredibly empty of DMT/jimjam.

My salt pulls are just yielding waxy stuff that looks pretty similar to Mescaline Acetate. There was a whole bunch of random waxiness and like two chunks of that red-honey type stuff that looked like it should, but I have no idea how to actually determine what is and isn't a psychedlic alkaloid in my evap pan.

Bah!

All I know is that in my experience once vinegar touches DMT then it is a goo until either basified and pulled with solvent or burnt to a crisp.

One other thing:
I am sort of curious why you are choosing a tek that requires so much work for the main purpose (In my opinion) of creating a smoke-able product but to my understanding this is for pharmahausca right?

With DMT acetate you will get intense nausea and very likely purge but possibly with almost nothing in your stomach which can be extremely un-satisfying and somewhat painful (when it happened to me)

A mimosa brew will get the same results at most likely a higher yield from less steps/work. It should cause similar nausea but having chased the nasty brew with lots of liquid (or made a dilute brew) you'll have a nice gushing purge (much better in my experience)

Just my two cents.
 
It's mostly for the portability aspect. I work at a festival this summer, and won't have much time/don't want to attract attention making a brew on-site. Much easier to just drop a capsule or something that size. Take the MAOI. and fly away.

I've eaten 30g of Peruvian Torch (chewing every piece completely) and did not vomit. It was incredibly difficult to resist the urge to purge, but I succeeded. Can't say I'd repeat that success (hence why I now extract), especially without alot of Cannabis. Something I'd rather avoid on my first DMT trip, to feel Dmitri on his own ...

I'm probably going to smoke the product I created as a bioassay so I can see if it even works. If it works I'll be choked because I'll have to cross my fingers extra hard that my Mimosa comes from Florida ASAP (I live near Vancouver) so that I can create Mimo Hostilis in a pill and be ready to pack it with me for July 27th.

I read all your advice on smoking (I ended up creating an inspirator because I had the ingredients on hand), but I'd like to know what you think about: Considering my product isn't really a goo .. I shouldn't have to evap it on a glass plate/spoon .. if I understand correctly if I just have say really dry DMT acetate then it's just plain ready for smoking ... load it into bowl and smoke it (heeding your advice on smoking, etc.)
 
What I would advise is:
Get a copper kitchen scrubber, burn the varnish thoroughly off it, scrape some of the gunk up and then bring a flame towards it slowly then waft the smoke and watch what the solid does. (Note that DMT acetate often catches fire when burned without suction, Acetic acid is flammable)
If it smells like nasty chemicals and like only 10% of it burns off then it is likely not DMT.
If it produces lots of white smoke, melts into the copper and leaves a unique smell (sure you've read about it) that lingers in the whole room for a while after and a most of it is gone/melted then it is likely (at least partially) DMT.

If it seems like there is some DMT in it but it is not mostly DMT then maybe do a vinegar wash. Just use warm vinegar and mix the gunk around then filter and evaporate.

While I definitely don't recommend smoking anything as a test especially something so suspect. I will admit that personally I probably would...
 
Okay. So I was impatient to just see what's up with this stuff and so I loaded up the substance which was the result of my third pull of the bark. The limonene was always completely clear. It didn't change colour except maybe an increase in cloudiness. I did two pulls with fresh d-limonene and then reused all three pulls to do a final pull on the bark mash—i saved the bark mash in a jar just incase.

I reserved the result of in my first two pulls (using 5% Heinz white vinegar to salt) and the result had all that powdery weird substance in with a couple hard chunks of red-brown crystal (eyeballed at about 20-50mg.. I have a 0.1 scale, and don't feel like purchasing a second scale.

I sandwiched the product of the combined and reused d-limonene pulls (7-8% glacial acetic acid, reagent grade—in solution with water) in my 1 foot glass bong with the following order from bottom to top: marijuana bed, copper mesh pipe screen, marijuana, DMT acetate? (this third pull was blackish-brown-tan with a tar like texture; it also had some minor particles that got through the filter)-rolled up into a ball and squished disk like, marijuana, pipe screen, marijuana

I lit it like you light hash at first (flame quite high above the bowl sucking the flame down with deep breaths but not touching). I took a few small tokes as it heated up, then I got a few large hits once it lit up and I applied a little more direct flame to the top pipe screen and such.

PLASTIC! I swear. Or at least I can understand why people would compare it.

I didn't get very high .. but for about 5 minutes I felt the ground ripple and got attuned to certain little details about the environment (rays of sun, longer blades of grass, lawn) and I kept toking, but I think maybe I burned it a little because inhaling was difficult "all at once" so to speak. But I think I felt something for sure, and the taste was quite distinct .. however I can't confirm if I wasn't just tasting the bong's uncleanliness (only smoke Cannabis/hash in it with emphasis on the Cannabis) and the pipe screens (I burned them red hot before use to make sure they weren't covered in some factory grease or whatever.

So it might of been placebo, but maybe not.

I think the goo factor is completely right. The Heinz vinegar was probably the culprit in the initially bizarre evaporations. The pure acetic acid dilution doesn't seem to leave anything but DMT if my semi-successful bioassay might indicate.

Anyways, it's probably 10 days if not 15 before I get more MHRB-PP from HP. I'll have to give your tek a try you've been so helpful and I'm probably good to give it a try with 100g and that way I'll have some for Changa, some for smoking, some for eating, some for sharing.

Thanks!


P.S. The smoke was very, very thick at a certain point—a point at which the smokes taste was the most distinct coincidentally, but I feel unscientific claiming that to be anything but placebo. I was smoking pot after-all, and that can be mildly psychedelic for me .. not usually, but I hadn't smoked in a few days .. and not in my bong for months .. but nothing was really wrong with my chemistry except that I didn't add vinegar before d-limonene .. so it's pretty failsafe I'm thinking
 
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