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extraction brain teasers

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greymatter

greymatter

Rising Star
I have some general questions about extraction...i have some experience with both cactus and mimosa and have some ideas but would like to test the validiy of them
fist of all...naptha is difficult to procure here(but possible thanks to a couple of tips I already received;THANX)but in a purely educational spirit:
If i can't freeze crystalize with toulene(or can I?)...can i acidify the charged solvent to percipatate the hcl salt?..will it crystalize or is that only for 5meo?
and if i can obtain the hcl salt, would butane be an acceptable polar solvent for rebasification and seperation?
it's that i made an inventoin to purify a crude hash oil made with acetone...i'll have to explain:
First i soak the herb in acetone then evoporate it and it leaves a super dark green but smokable oil that i later purify by putting in this apperatus that i made out of a pvc tube, a valve out of a refillable lighter and an evacuation valve in the bottom and a neck in the middle...fist i put the crude hash oil in water and heat it stirring it and the water tuns green and the oil starts to float then i put it in the pvc pipe and seal it and empty 2 cans of butane and shake vigorusly...then i open the valve below and the green water is pushed out by the pressure of the butane and then i reseal and open in the middle...the temp drops dramaticly and the butane evaporates in like ten minutes leaving the oil looking like honey instead of green face paint and tastes great
I want to aply this to freebasing dmt...instead of freezecrystalizing...i would acid percipitate, form the hcl, desolve in water, basefy, put in the machine, fill with butane , seperate the water, release the pressure and the butane theoretically should contain the freebase and evaporate super quick...no wait dmt, no solvent evaporation
so what do you think? it's my theory:lol:
Another question...i've been told no turpentine...out of pure curisity, Why not?...is it not a polar solvent?...what makes it unacceptable for this use?
Yet another question...when extracting mescaline the final product should be washed in icecold acetone to remove any excess acid and solvent....what would happen to dmt if it were washed in icecold acetone...would the freebase react differently than the hcl salt form?
And on a side note...anybody have any plans for a homemade vacuume system...my buddy's the mexican mcguyver,,,we can weld, cut metal, form it, have tap and dies and the motivation to do it if you could point me in the right direction.
Well i'll let you guys mull over that one for a while...i anxiously await your replys
 
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greymatter said:
I have some general questions about extraction...i have some experience with both cactus and mimosa and have some ideas but would like to test the validiy of them
fist of all...naptha is difficult to procure here
Click to expand...
Lighter Fluid or you can use Heptane or hexane.
If i can't freeze crystalize with toulene(or can I?)
Click to expand...
NO

..can i acidify the charged solvent to percipatate the hcl salt?..will it crystalize or is that only for 5meo?
Click to expand...
DMT HCL will result in a goo, DMT Fumarate is the only solid DMT salt.
I want to aply this to freebasing dmt...instead of freezecrystalizing...i would acid percipitate, form the hcl, desolve in water, basefy, put in the machine, fill with butane , seperate the water, release the pressure and the butane theoretically should contain the freebase and evaporate super quick...no wait dmt, no solvent evaporation
so what do you think? it's my theory:lol:
Click to expand...
How would you separate the water quick enough before the butane evaporated? I think butane would dissolve DMT but I cant see a practical method of use.
Another question...i've been told no turpentine...out of pure curisity, Why not?...is it not a polar solvent?...what makes it unacceptable for this use?
Click to expand...
You could use turpentine but it doesn't freeze precipitate and takes ages to evaporate - there are better solvents to use[/quote]
 
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in the machine, 5psi is mantained inside the tube, keeping the butane liquid...to do this, i turn it upside down, i open the bottom valve(now on top so the liquid doesnt escape) while charging the tube, then close it and empy the two cans into the system where they remain aqueous....later i invert the tube to it's upright position and again open the evacuation valve and the water escapes. finally i open the tube in the middle(it has a female/male/femal neck installed in the middle) and the butane lowers in tempertature to compensate for the instant pressure loss...the cold temp and the disolved oil allow it to evaporate less than instantly...up to ten minutes of freezing cold but boiling butane
 
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what acid would i use to obtain fumerate...i have a real diverse kit...i might have what i need
2...would turpentine be good for only defat as that your going to throw it away anyway?
 
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greymatter said:
in the machine, 5psi is mantained inside the tube, keeping the butane liquid...to do this, i turn it upside down, i open the bottom valve(now on top so the liquid doesnt escape) while charging the tube, then close it and empy the two cans into the system where they remain aqueous....later i invert the tube to it's upright position and again open the evacuation valve and the water escapes. finally i open the tube in the middle(it has a female/male/femal neck installed in the middle) and the butane lowers in tempertature to compensate for the instant pressure loss...the cold temp and the disolved oil allow it to evaporate less than instantly...up to ten minutes of freezing cold but boiling butane
Click to expand...

Got a picture?
 
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i'm sory i dont have a camara...but let me see if i can describe it as that it 's easy to reproduce...in a pvc cap of 1 inch diameter drill a hole slightly smaller than the diameter of a butane valve from a refillable lighter...press it in and seal it w teflon tape
in another cap, install a threaded valve with a nozzle and tap easily available in whatever hardware store...attach a tube to the nozzel
connect two links of coresponding pvc with a neck fixture made with two female to male parts attached with a threaded ring...(a filter can be installed there for doing straight butane hash oil extraction on herb)(instead of purification)
this macine has a couple of uses:
the upper chamber is filled with weed to make a straight butane extraction and the plant material is held in place by a filter...later to be open in the middle and the oil charged butane can be dumped out into a glass bowl
2...because butane is expensive...i extract first with acetone and then mix the oil that cantains cloraphly because it was obtained with a semipolar solvent...i mix it in water and heat it on the stove for a couple of minutes then pour the liquid in the chamber, seal it, turn it fauset side up and open the valve a little and charge, blowing the air out the faucet , then sealing it and emptying the butane inside...shake vigerously and turn so that the water and butane are on the facet side facing down and open the valve and the green water rushes out and a wnen there is no more water and you hear the hissing of the gas you close the valve and open the tube in the middle and pour the charged freezing cold butane in a glass bowl and enjoy super hash oil in a matter of minutes
i was hopeing to use this as a freebaser it is yet to be seen
 
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greymatter said:
still i was wondering what would happen to dmt if it were washed with icecold acetone...like purification of mescaline...or would it disolve
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Yes it would dissolve.

As for the butane 'tube thing' - it might be possible to extract DMT using a drytek method i.e

Mix MHRB with Sodium Carbonate/ Calcium hydroxide etc with a little water to make a paste. let paste dry and fill pvc tube with dried paste (maybe have a filter paper to stop mix falling through). Blast with butane and see if any crystals appear when evaporating. It might even give a full spectrum pull which should leave a reddish goo.

The only problem I forsee is that you could only do small amounts of MHRB plus you would probably need a good bit of butane. Might be a nice quick way of getting enough for a dose though.

If you plan on a pre-extraction then why not just do a full extraction?

Interesting thoughts though - nice post.
 
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Umantis said:
greymatter said:
what acid would i use to obtain fumarate
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fumaric acid - hey i got one!

i know acetate and acetic acid are related, but i wonder if acetone is related to those two as well
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Acetone is related in the sense that it was named using the acet- (vinegar) prefix and the -one (feminine derivative, as in anemone, daughter of the wind [itself as in anemometer]) suffix. Why? Because acetone can be prepared by the dry distillation of calcium acetate (itself made from chalk and vinegar) at about 150C. It is full of impurities when prepared in this manner so it requires redistillation. Fortunately acetone boils at 56C so it's pretty easy, especially if you use a fractionation column.

Nowadays it is known (in chemistry textbooks, at least) as propanone, which is nowhere near as interesting.
 
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downwardsfromzero said:
Umantis said:
greymatter said:
what acid would i use to obtain fumarate
Click to expand...
fumaric acid - hey i got one!

i know acetate and acetic acid are related, but i wonder if acetone is related to those two as well
Click to expand...
Acetone is related in the sense that it was named using the acet- (vinegar) prefix and the -one (feminine derivative, as in anemone, daughter of the wind [itself as in anemometer]) suffix. Why? Because acetone can be prepared by the dry distillation of calcium acetate (itself made from chalk and vinegar) at about 150C. It is full of impurities when prepared in this manner so it requires redistillation. Fortunately acetone boils at 56C so it's pretty easy, especially if you use a fractionation column.

Nowadays it is known (in chemistry textbooks, at least) as propanone, which is nowhere near as interesting.
Click to expand...

that is a tale i don't think i would have ever found on my own. you, my friend, are my organic chemistry history hero of the day! and now knowing this of course I have even more questions, but i'll go do some of my own homework. Thanks for letting me know that there are some answers out there.
 
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KSrainMkEr said:
just for general information, the first of the thread, acetone is not needed for honey oil, just a pvc tube packed with herb and butane then evap what comes out in pyrex
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of this i'm sure also...i have been making hash oil for 15 years...butane is very expensive and acetone is very cheap...making a crude extraction with acetone saves more than 50 bucks on can after can of butane...try it one time...but modify the tube as is mentioned anteriorly
 
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