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Failed BLAB Step 6 Fumarate Conversion... :(

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quetzalcoatl42

Rising Star
pooh,

dont really know where to start. Well, maybe by mentioning that it wasted about 1g of dmt fumarate and just threw away the stuff that came out of conversion... it wouldn't call it freebase, its lungs are actually burning a bit as it writes.
It guesses some things must have gone wrong, maybe some being can help identify what.

First of all its limo is yellow, it's probably more than 90% d-Limonene but technically its called orange-terpene. it is not really sure if that matters, but it called the guy from ebay today asking if it were possible to exchange it to some clear limo, which ebay also has. Should it ?

Well, it did the Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime A/B until it pulled all the limo of the dry goo and then proceeded with step 4a of BLAB, using FASI 5ml every 5 minutes and precipitated about 4g of dmt fumarate, which was brownish powdery but a little bit granular and smelled of oranges nearly as much as limo. All looked good. It then washed the dried fumarate with ice cold IPA. The orange smell was gone but the bitter smell of denatured IPA remained and the consistency changed to super fine powder. So it washed the fumarate again this time with hot water, which it evapped on a casserole dish using a hotplate. The consistency then turned out to be super hard and crystalline (had to use a spatula to scrape it off the casserole dish).
By then it lost about 1g during the two washes. It doesn't think it lost to much unreacted fumaric acid, its more the remains in the coffee filter from IPA washing and on the casserole dish after water evapping, and of course some unreacted fuamric acid.
It could live with that.

One thing it noticed however is the color of the fumarate dissolved in water, which was cloudy brownish, in the BLAB tek it looks clear and brown but more red than its own. So whatever, it decided to to take a gramm and try freebase conversion. So it made some sodium carbonate solution (using hot water, maybe it should have used cold) and dripped that into the hot water dissolved fumarate, which already looked cloudy even after 2 washes, as mentioned before. Because the fumarate was already cloudy it could hardly see the the clouds forming, but it saw some, because its really white, and it smelled the freebase when dripping. So it put that into the fridge for one day (It knows it should have waited longer, but it was a bit impatient and eager to try), and checked this morning to see some crystals forming, which unfortunately didnt stick to the glass, but floated around, it carefully decanted, the still cloudy brown liquid away from the crystals which had about the same color and put it in the fridge again. It then waited ages to dry the watery freebase, at which point it had collected all kinds of dust and dirt, but eventually it did dry.

It then did the first test, with some aluminum foil to check for residue, which was massive and black. It sizzled and black stains remained. At about evening more crystals had formed in the fridge so It dried those with the help of some heat below 100° C (trying to avoid dust and dirt, this time) and combined the two. It then smoked some, which was just now, before it threw it all it the trash, because it was extremely harsh and ineffective.

It would love to get some some full spectrum brownish smokeable stuff using limo, but the described method didnt seem to work at all, maybe its ingredients, maybe its impatience, just didnt work well at all.

:(

any comments are welcome...
 
Hmm,

Someone read quite a bit in the Fumaric Acid and Salt-precipitation forum. Well first of all, maybe it felt it should mention, that it was probably stupid to throw the remains away, because as Endlessness keeps on reminding ppl its always possible to rescue some. Then again, it was probably a bit lazy and sitting on a fair amount of freebase already plus another fair amount of fumarate and MHRB it felt it wasn't worth the stress for, if lucky, 0.6 g of green freebase.

However, someone learnt a few lessons. First of all it should have most probably made cold water sodium carbonate solution, taking care to wait a proper amount of time to settle the particles and same time taking care to decant (it usually does that with a 30 ml syringe, keeping the flat bend needle just under the surface), this way it would avoid excess sodium carbonate in the product.

Still, it read a few reports of other beings making similar mistakes. It then looked at this:
and this

and it felt even more strongly that nothing but itself was the cause of the problems it experienced, and at the same time it felt that it was most probably very possible to make it all work in a satisfiable/green way.

So, in the end it felt like saying, any further advice and some answers on the questions asked above (yellow limo) + where would one get undenatured IPA, (could it distill the bitter away ?) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
I dont see what you did wrong there during the extraction to be honest, except the non-denatured IPA, and the limo.. The thing is, even if it wasnt really 100% limonene, the other terpenes in orange shouldnt really be a problem, they should be removed during the wash steps and the conversion. Also adding sodium carbonate to hot water shouldnt really be a problem, at most you'll have some sodium carb remains in your final product but it wont vaporize at lighter temperatures.

Now, what I find weird is what you made an alu foil test? Maybe it became black because you burned the dmt ? Or maybe it was some denatured IPA residue but im not sure... Do you know what the IPA is denatured with?

Also, you say you threw it away, so yeah as I always say dont throw away :D How are you smoking? Is it possible you are just smoking it bad and thats why its innefective? That would be my main suspicion I think..
 
well, the "it" thing is tedious. SWIM actually sits on a fair amount of Naphtha freebase and it always does the aluminium foil test with a small small amount, not actually smoking, just checking for residue or clean burn. The petro chemical stuff, burns absolutely clean, with NO remains at all, the water percipitated freebase left some black stuff.
SWIM used to smoke simple joints with Tussilago farfara and red clover, but SWIM now actually bought a vapor genie, and had both ways, beautiful under eyelid space aswell as 2 breakthroughs, both in a perculiar cartoonish world. So SWIM thinks the smoking isn't the issue, and the alu foil is more of a tester.

However SWIM remembers to read someone else writing that hot water can absorb more sod. carb thus resulting in an excess amount. SWIM also remembers to read ppl reporting well more crystals (made from excess sodium carb) than even possible from the amount of fumarate they put, alongside sand brownish not sticking to the glass floating percipitate which actually felt to them like freebase.
SWIM feels like he is in that situation too. SWIMs fumarate is also sand brownisch, and SWIMs percipitate was the same color, just a different smell and less hard than fumarate.
Well, the only thing SWIM can do is try again, maybe not fridging at all this time and using less sodium carb, aswell as washing my fumarate again a couple of times. Could SWIM distill his IPA ?

Thx for the answer.
 
hmm,

SWIM just read that the 2-propanol it was using was 70%. Its guesses for denaturation agents are Butanon or Denatonium...

hmm, hmm, hmm

EDIT: The green spirit from the hardware store (which SWIM didnt use) is 94% but surely by law, also denatured...
EDIT 2: Misleading information. The shop says 99%, the MSDS, says 70%, not sure what SWIM got. Seems to hard to be sure. Picked a few brands that ppl seem to be using for cleaning DLSR Camera sensors, making sure its un-denatured, trying to get one of those at a pharmacy for next time... :/
 
I dont know butanon, but denatonium benzoate aka bitrex could potentially be responsible for both the bad taste as well as for the black stuff left when you heat it up. It says it has a boiling point of 163c. I guess you could potentially distill it

But here's an easier and safer solution: Why dont you do FASW instead?

In any case can you do an evap test in your IPA and tell us if it leaves any residue?

By the way can you get clean acetone?

If you can get clean acetone, you can use it to clean your FASW fumarates.. Or anyways you can just do the conversion to freebase with the FASW fumarates even if you dont clean them up, but you might have a bit of limo smell with them.. Filter the water in a funnel with tight cotton on the bottom to help removing some more limo from the water (run a bit of warm water after you filter, so you dont lose the FASW water that is soaking the cotton). Also you can later do bufoman's water clean up of fumarates to clean a bit further.
 
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