FASA Tek - Acetone used as solvent?

[Psychogardener]

Hi,

I came across this post and read something here which is quite interesting.
This thread is originally for Mimosa CWE thread but somehow the OP also mentioned his FASA tek.
Below is quoted from part of the writing;

Also, an easy way to get pure mhrb fumarate alkaloids, is to do a standard acid base acid cook/reduction, evap that to a resin. Mix it 2:1 lime (caoh:mhrb), add enough water to make a watery paste. Dry it overnight, but keep it out of light/high temps.

Take your dried basified resin, pull 3x with DRY acetone, decanting or filtering out any sediment, and add fumaric acid saturated acetone to the combined 3 acetone pulls you now have. You'll instantly notice clouding, then precipitation of fairly pure dmt fumarate crystals.

Once it stops clouding let it sit in a sealed container for a few hours, then add more fasa (fumaric acid saturated acetone) until it no longer clouds. Waiting a few hours between each addition of the fasa. You can't add too much fasa, since any fumaric acid will be soluble in the acetone you pulled with, but its best to be as efficient and frugal with your extraction supply's, so try and conserve your fasa/acetone. No need for waste here Thumbs up

Can you really use Acetone as replacement for NPS (Xylene/Toluence or Naphtha) in FASA tek?
If this really can, it is very good news for me (or all) since Xylene/Toluence (or even Naphtha) is almost no where to find where I live.
Hope some expert can enlighten me.

The full thread can be found in post #2 here;

Cold water Ayhuasca brewing? - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Psychogardener]

Ok, I think I got a little bit confuse... I think it's cause by too much new info and too much teks, lol...

I think I now understand better, after another careful reading (I may get confuse again, after reading too much here..) here
The FASA Method: DMT Fumarate and Beyond very good thread by Entropymancer

The FASA Method: A Summary - DMT Fumarate and Beyond - FASA/FASI/FASW - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

It says here, one of Infundibulum TEKS mention using Citric Acid Saturated Acetone, as some kind of solvent. Using it to soak MHRB and filtered. After that, add FASA to get DMT Fumarate precipitate. So no need any NPS. Am i understand correctly?

In the other teks also by Infundibulum; SPICE EXTRACTION – The FASA approach
it mention the need of NPS - Xylene or Toluene.

So, if I understand correctly, I can choose to use citric acid saturated acetone or using Xylene or Toluene as solvent right?

 

[DansMaTete]

You can use acetone to pull spice but it has to be dry because acetone is miscible with water so you can't separate them.
And if there is water in your acetone you can't precitate salts as they are soluble in this water.




[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]

 

[DreaMTripper]

Im no expert but the theory in the OP seems legit no reason I can see that it wouldnt work its a tweaking of the BLAB tek but its unlikely to be very pure as there has been no separation from the polar impurities and then when using acetone to paste and pull will pull all the impurities with it, some will stay in the acetone after doing the FASA but some will no doubt precipitate with the full spec fumarates and may stop some of the fumarates precipitating in the first place.

Infundibulums tek looks really neat but he said himself the effectiveness may depend on using lab grade chemicals. It also renders the acetone unuseable after meaning a great deal of waste is generated.

Can you get limonene? Must be able to sunflower oil, for sunflower/vege oil you could do an a/b and salt out using FASW evaporate the water off then wash with anhydrous acetone to remove excess fumaric acid.
Or if you can get ethanol you could follow endlessnesses
tek here Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate - Eco friendly extraction teks - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
then once youve got the extract after the cleanup steps you could dissolve it in acetone and FASA it.

 

[Psychogardener]

You can use acetone to pull spice but it has to be dry because acetone is miscible with water so you can't separate them.
And if there is water in your acetone you can't precitate salts as they are soluble in this water.




[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]

So I read that, one can convert Acetone into anhydrous acetone with following method;

You can easily turn hardware store acetone into anhydrous acetone with the simple process I've outlined below. To do this, you'll need to go to Home Depot or Lowes and get the following items: a 1 liter can of acetone and a bag of epsom salts.

Heat some epsom salts on an aluminum foil covered baking sheet in the oven for 2 hours at 400 degrees F. After 2 hours of heating, the epsom salts have now been turned into anhydrous magnesium sulphate. Crazy huh?

Take 10-20 grams of your greyish ash looking anhydrous magnesium sulphate and pour it directly into your can of hardware store acetone. Shake the can vigorously for a few minutes to circulate the magnesium sulphate and then let it settle for 24 hours. The magnesium sulphate will absorb all of the water and/or alcohol from the hardware store acetone and sink it to the bottom of the can where it shall remain forever.

Therefore from now on, never pour from the can, instead use a glass eye dropper or glass pipette (glass straw) to reach down inside of the can to extract however much anhydrous acetone you'll be requiring. Always stay away from the bottom of the can. Once the can get's about half way down, discard and repeat the process with a fresh can of acetone. Always use glass hardware when using acetone. Acetone will melt plastic.

it mention Heating some epsom salts on an aluminum foil in an oven to convert to anhydrous magnesium sulphate. If I only get magnesium sulphate and mix it in acetone, will it create anhydrous acetone? if not how do I make anhydrous magnesium sulphate, from normal magnesium sulphate?

And also, by the way, I can get 99.7% acetone, that's what my supplier says. Is it enough "anhydrous" already?

Thank you.

 

[Psychogardener]

Im no expert but the theory in the OP seems legit no reason I can see that it wouldnt work its a tweaking of the BLAB tek but its unlikely to be very pure as there has been no separation from the polar impurities and then when using acetone to paste and pull will pull all the impurities with it, some will stay in the acetone after doing the FASA but some will no doubt precipitate with the full spec fumarates and may stop some of the fumarates precipitating in the first place.

Infundibulums tek looks really neat but he said himself the effectiveness may depend on using lab grade chemicals. It also renders the acetone unuseable after meaning a great deal of waste is generated.

Can you get limonene? Must be able to sunflower oil, for sunflower/vege oil you could do an a/b and salt out using FASW evaporate the water off then wash with anhydrous acetone to remove excess fumaric acid.
Or if you can get ethanol you could follow endlessnesses
tek here Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate - Eco friendly extraction teks - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
then once youve got the extract after the cleanup steps you could dissolve it in acetone and FASA it.

Hi,
Thank you for the advice.
Yes I think I can get limonene, I found a supplier for 100% Orange/Lemon Essential oil. Is that limonene? I think so? But its damn expensive.
Sure I can get sunflower oil, its everywhere! So you mean, sunflower oil actually can be used as a solvent to replace xylene/toluence?!?! really!? I mean those sunflower cooking oil that is sold and found in local supermarket? That another good news and knowledge learned. Thank you for telling me this.
By the way, is FASW = fumaric acid saturated water?
So, normal a/b, pull with sunflower oil. (can do STB-lazyman tek, then pull with sunflower oil?)
then salt out with FASW,then evap the water, then wash with anhy acetone, then evap acetone again, i get DMT Fumarate right
So, if using sunflower oil, i have to use FASW, not FASA?
Am I understand all correctly?

Thank you.

 

[DansMaTete]

it mention Heating some epsom salts on an aluminum foil in an oven to convert to anhydrous magnesium sulphate. If I only get magnesium sulphate and mix it in acetone, will it create anhydrous acetone? if not how do I make anhydrous magnesium sulphate, from normal magnesium sulphate?

And also, by the way, I can get 99.7% acetone, that's what my supplier says. Is it enough "anhydrous" already?

Thank you.

Epsom salts = magnesium sulfate

About acetone : i don't know if 99,7% is enough. Anyway, acetone is prone to suck moiture from air so i prefer to add anhydrous magnesium sulfate in my acetone can. Like this i'm sure it stays anhydrous.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Yeah I think best doing vigorous multiple FASW with sunf oil, but afaik FASA hasnt been tried with it so Im unsure of the suitability.
FASW water can be evapped over a 24hr period using a cheap rice cooker on the 'warm' setting. May take less time depending on volume of liquid of course.

Limonene is great and pulls like a champ and can be used over and over again if its rinsed after so its good value for money. Good surface cleaner too. Check msds for purity.

Dmt/jungle fumarate isnt soluble in acetone so you dont evap it at after fasw you just remove the excess fumaric acid from it to leave spice fumarates. This acetone can then be used again for a mini fasa another time.

Best doing an a/b to get a cleaner product and less solvent to use as you can reduce the solution at the acid stage but stb would work.

 

[Psychogardener]

Thank you so much DansMaTete & DreaMTripper. You are so kind. I have become more clear now. I think I know what to do now

One more thing though, with the magnesium sulfate, can I do the heating like everything described in the method but with stove fire(not microwave oven). And I may not know the temp of fire though. Can I over heat it and end up turning it into something else other than anhydrous magnesium sulfate?

Thank you.

 

[wearepeople]

One more thing though, with the magnesium sulfate, can I do the heating like everything described in the method but with stove fire(not microwave oven). And I may not know the temp of fire though. Can I over heat it and end up turning it into something else other than anhydrous magnesium sulfate?

Thank you.

Magnesium sulfate changes form/color when anhydrous. It goes from being a translucent, square crystal to a white, chunky crystal.

As far as making anhydrous MgSO4 over an open flame, I have no idea.

 

[pitubo]

Can I over heat it and end up turning it into something else other than anhydrous magnesium sulfate?

Nope, certainly not with a conventional cooking oven. Don't worry.

I find it annoying how it melts in its water of hydration when you heat it and then turns into a hard crust when the water is driven off. If you can find one of those silicone baking trays, they are ideal for dehydrating magnesium sulfate, because then you don't need to chisel the crust out of the tray.

 

[Psychogardener]

Thanks so much guys :thumb_up:

 

[Psychogardener]

I have found a video here on how to dry epsom salt and its so easy, just like converting sodium bicarbonate into sodium carbonate.

 

[Pickledpossum]

CAN YOU PLEASE tell me how it is you managed to GET Fumaric Acid saturated ACETONE??

 

[Pickledpossum]

i understand that you "dissolve" fumaric into acetone, but through a few years of organic chem, ive never EVER seen it done. its "insoluble" so how could it dissolve??

 

[DansMaTete]

From the wiki (here)

Rendering Crystalline DMT Fumarate

Dissolve about 7mg fumaric acid per mL of fresh anhydrous acetone to prepare a FASA solution, allotting adequate time and stirring for complete saturation, and allowing any excess to settle to the bottom.
It is recommended that the solution be prepared in slight excess of fumaric acid rather than an excess of acetone for the procedure to be most effective.

 

[Pickledpossum]

From the wiki (here)

Rendering Crystalline DMT Fumarate

Dissolve about 7mg fumaric acid per mL of fresh anhydrous acetone to prepare a FASA solution, allotting adequate time and stirring for complete saturation, and allowing any excess to settle to the bottom.
It is recommended that the solution be prepared in slight excess of fumaric acid rather than an excess of acetone for the procedure to be most effective.

Oh um, that's was the very very first page I viewed on the subject. Helpful, but not helpful for me.
I'll link you to a thread I have posted some pictures on. These pictures I have shown 280mg fumaric acid re fluxing in anhydrous acetone for over 50mins.

For FAQ's Sake... - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus. POST: #514

Those pictures show the end result. And show no apparent dissolving of the acid.