DudeMeetTyler
Rising Star
Preface: I understand Harmala freebase is considered relatively stable if stored properaly and that freebase is acceptable for use in pharma preperations but humour me for a moment still, if you will.
So I have been thinking lately about the conversion of Harmala freebase (extracted from syrian rue, using Gibrans Easy Caapi extraction found here )to Harmala fumarate using a FASW technique.
I have read Trav's post about this conversion using a FASA methond here . However, given the relative insolubility of Harmala Fb in (presumably) anhydrous acetone (200 mg / 30 ml) I figured why bother with acetone, when Harmala Fb is practically insoluble in water too.
Here are my thoughts about this conversion:
I would like to add a relatively accurate amount of fumaric acid for a set amount of harmala freebase, for example as we do in the FB to Fum conversion of dmt (where we add ~ 309 mg of fumaric acid per gram of dmt). Though I understand it would be difficult to determine exactly, given variances in the constitutions of our Syrian Rue/ Caapi (Harmala Extracts - this would be easier if we seperated the harmalas first) the reason for this would to avoid needing to do a wash to rid ourselves of any left over fumaric acid.
To do this we would need an estimated avg of the molecular weight of our extract. I have calculated a rough estimate ignoring the fact that Harmine, Harmaline, and Tetrahydroharmine occuring in different rations (and assumed equal proportions).
Given
Harmine FB = 212.25 g / mol
Harmaline FB = 216.279 g / mol
THH 216.279 g / mol ( this has to be incorrect but it is taken from erowid )
Given, the avg would be 214.936 and using some simple math we would need .54g of Fumaric Acid to convert 1 g of Harmala Freebase.
Here are my thoughts on the procedure:
1 - Create solution using .54g of F. A in a minimal amount of water (dont remember the amount I used in my trial but my notes say I had to warm the solution to get it all dissolved)
2 - Add 1 g of Harmala Ext to FASW solution. Stir well, filter if necessary ( I thought I had relatively clean extract but upon conversion back to an acid some sediment was apparent).
3 - Reduce the solution, which should now contain your Harmala Fumarate, completely (I used a fan).
4 - Wash (here I had 2 thoughts on this)
i) Using water ala Burnts FASa alteration of final product. Where we would attempt to dissolve our Harmala fumarate in a minimal amount of water, leaving any extra FA on the bottom. However when I tried this I needed > 100 ml of dH20, which would mean any FA would be dissolved in the water as FA is soluble in water at a ratio of .63 g/100ml
ii) Using anhydrous Acetone given that Fa is soluble in acetone @ 7 mg / ml (info found here )..
However, if we could determine a relatively precise amount of FA needed this whole wash business could be avoided for the sake of FA removal (might be useful for removing other impurities - though I am not sure)
Please let me know your thoughts about all of this, all comments welcome.
Thanks for reading and critiquing.
The Dude
So I have been thinking lately about the conversion of Harmala freebase (extracted from syrian rue, using Gibrans Easy Caapi extraction found here )to Harmala fumarate using a FASW technique.
I have read Trav's post about this conversion using a FASA methond here . However, given the relative insolubility of Harmala Fb in (presumably) anhydrous acetone (200 mg / 30 ml) I figured why bother with acetone, when Harmala Fb is practically insoluble in water too.
Here are my thoughts about this conversion:
I would like to add a relatively accurate amount of fumaric acid for a set amount of harmala freebase, for example as we do in the FB to Fum conversion of dmt (where we add ~ 309 mg of fumaric acid per gram of dmt). Though I understand it would be difficult to determine exactly, given variances in the constitutions of our Syrian Rue/ Caapi (Harmala Extracts - this would be easier if we seperated the harmalas first) the reason for this would to avoid needing to do a wash to rid ourselves of any left over fumaric acid.
To do this we would need an estimated avg of the molecular weight of our extract. I have calculated a rough estimate ignoring the fact that Harmine, Harmaline, and Tetrahydroharmine occuring in different rations (and assumed equal proportions).
Given
Harmine FB = 212.25 g / mol
Harmaline FB = 216.279 g / mol
THH 216.279 g / mol ( this has to be incorrect but it is taken from erowid )
Given, the avg would be 214.936 and using some simple math we would need .54g of Fumaric Acid to convert 1 g of Harmala Freebase.
Here are my thoughts on the procedure:
1 - Create solution using .54g of F. A in a minimal amount of water (dont remember the amount I used in my trial but my notes say I had to warm the solution to get it all dissolved)
2 - Add 1 g of Harmala Ext to FASW solution. Stir well, filter if necessary ( I thought I had relatively clean extract but upon conversion back to an acid some sediment was apparent).
3 - Reduce the solution, which should now contain your Harmala Fumarate, completely (I used a fan).
4 - Wash (here I had 2 thoughts on this)
i) Using water ala Burnts FASa alteration of final product. Where we would attempt to dissolve our Harmala fumarate in a minimal amount of water, leaving any extra FA on the bottom. However when I tried this I needed > 100 ml of dH20, which would mean any FA would be dissolved in the water as FA is soluble in water at a ratio of .63 g/100ml
ii) Using anhydrous Acetone given that Fa is soluble in acetone @ 7 mg / ml (info found here )..
However, if we could determine a relatively precise amount of FA needed this whole wash business could be avoided for the sake of FA removal (might be useful for removing other impurities - though I am not sure)
Please let me know your thoughts about all of this, all comments welcome.
Thanks for reading and critiquing.
The Dude
