First aya experience incoming, Chali/Rue Brew tips?

[Argyreius]

I searched quite a lot on chali with rue brews, and there's some material here and another pages but the fact is that I'm still not quite sure about some matters clearly, maybe there's no way to explain properly or definitely. So well, in about some weeks I'll do a rue/chali brew, I have 4g of Rue which I expect to use 2.5-3 not to be too strong cause is my first time aya experience.

I know that would be much easier with good vine and chacruna but even respecting a lot the plants spirits I will try with this materials that I have in hand. I have 20g of chaliponga, it seems the real stuff, quite dark (not black-dark as some say...), and the leaves has all the common shapes. My plan is to simmer chali, post-crush in mortar, about 30min x 3 boils with some acidic (i prefer lemon than vinegar to be honest) solution. And then in the last boil I'll simmer the rue seeds, non-crushed for some 30 mins and then reduce all that I have. Consume the rue tea first and then 20-30 mins after the chali reduction. Is all that ok??
My questions are:
1- is 3g Rue, 7g chali enough? And if it is, what could I expect in terms of duration, visionary state etc.
2- If chali is known for being psychologically mind-bending but not very visual, what really happens? in which way my psychology will change? Only emotionally? Changes in type and depth of thoughts?
3- I could be physically impaired for hours? like not being able to go to the toilet?
4- Are the first experiences difficult to catch (their meaning, the effects) compared to fairly experienced ones? It is worse in that way with Chali/Rue or it will be impossible to miss the effects?

That's all, sorry if it is too much askings , I thought that there's not so many Chali brew discussions out there. Thanks for your attention and responses.

 

[sarek]

FYI, this brew you are making is not Ayahuasca, because well, it does not contain any Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is the vine of a plant, Banisteriopsis Caapi. Brews containing this plant, with various admixtures (sometimes Chaliponga), are also referred to as Ayahuasca.

1: I think your plan is fine, and seems like a reasonable dose to try. You might need more Rue, but nobody can say for sure, and I generally boil the leaves longer than that, but I can't say with certainty that it is required. 3x 1 hour boils is what I have done with Chaliponga. If you don't receive the desired effects, keep these things in mind as possible areas of refinement in your process.

Nobody can tell you what is "enough", as it's different for everybody. Oral DMT doses are not quite like smoking; different people require significantly different amounts. The only way is for you to find the right dose for you, experimentally. Having an optimal experience can take a few tries, so don't have too strong of an expectation of having the perfect oral DMT trip. Just try it and see. If anything, I would start with slightly less Chaliponga, but you're probably fine. I generally allow at least 6 hours of time for the effects, but really, if things are that strict in your scheduling, you're probably not going to have a great time.

2: In my experience, Chaliponga is a little too weird, even by oral DMT standards. Dark, primal jungle ju-ju, bloody Aztec jade skulls, vines, fangs, leopard spots, shadow people, etc. The primal brutality of survival in the jungle, deep hard truths of what it means to be physical. I personally don't really enjoy it much, but some people certainly do. It's certainly profound, and I have great respect for the plant. You could very well have a completely different experience.

3: It is extremely unlikely that on that dose you will be physically unable to use the bathroom. I have personally never had that become a problem for me, even with pretty large oral doses.

4: Don't worry about it so much. Just pay attention and see what happens. Once you get your preparation and dose right, I would say there is not a chance that you will miss the effects.

 

[Argyreius]

Thanks Sarek for your advice and kind words. In response to your correction, yeh, I know that Aya is the vine and anahuasca any analogue with maoi's like rue, but well, I don't know if the harmalas in Rue are so different than on the vine, I've only tried rue only tea's with the same seeds at 2.5-3 and is noticeable but very light effect, something like happy, medidative, slow-paced sense of mind /body response. I hope That is maois on my mind.

Is my first anahuasca experience but I tried other entheogens in quite strong experiences so I prefer not to fall short with the dosage specially since I feel I have a bit of a hardhead for triptamines (not so lisergamides or PEAs). I'll take your advice and will do 3x1hour simmers for cabrerana.
Much more calm knowing your answer to my points 3 and 4. Point 2 sound really weird, really, I mean, you feel those spirits, even without seeing defined shapes or entitites? Well, I like to try whatever the case will be.

 

[KarmicSloth]

You may need more chali than that. Depends on trip you want and such but making tea often gives wildly different results. I'd prepare some extra and keep it handy since you'll know if you need more after about an hour. As for chali versus psychotria? Psychotria is the smoother option IMO, it sort of rounds out the rough edges compared to chali or mimosa. Chali is a bit darker, a bit more out there for a lack of a better term.

 

[Argyreius]

If I make a 3x1hour boil of 10 g of chali... When it would make sense to drink more than let's say half or 3/4 of the cup? When would I know if the peak could be weak? Considering that I never tried I think is difficult to tell the onset, peak effects and so...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

It would seem sensible if you were prepared to work your way up to the dose you want over the course of several experiences. By various accounts, having too much chali in your brew could be excessively intense and you might want to avoid that.

Are you familiar with the effects of rue alkaloids by themselves? Adding a little 'light' to that can be effective with a surprisingly small amount of admixture plant - in your case, of course, chali, although I've used [for its own particular reasons, very cautiously!!] Phalaris extract.


You really only have 4g of rue? You surely want to get more than that, the stuff is dirt cheap.

 

[Argyreius]

Yeah, rue is dirt cheap, truly it is. My problem is that I need to stay in a place where international packages (and many times national ones) don't reach, I don't know the reason exactly but is really apart. So I should have bought many things before coming here but I hadn't the time. I will get a big batch of rue and "light leaves" whenever I can, also mhrb for my first extraction.

I tried rue alone 3 times, and it was noticeable but more like a meditative state, happy feeling, a bit similar to kratom's second phase. It was with 2.5-3 grams. So that was the reason I want to try a good chance for good effects. Could I save the brew in the fridge for some days just to retake it some days after the first test dips?

 

[Argyreius]

I´m at the moment doing the first boil/simmer of chali, I will finish it in about an hour, strain, save, and then again 2 times with half a lemon and 2 lemon essential oil drops in each simmer. I'm using about a pint of water. I won't consume it until tuesday, but is better for my schedule to do the simmers today.