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First breakthrough, super confused.

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expandinguniverse

expandinguniverse

Rising Star
Hey guys,

After finishing my first extraction 3 weeks ago and having a few sub breakthrough experiences, I finally worked up the courage to take a breakthrough dose. After meditating for a bit, I smoked 110mg of changa ( 55mg of DMT ). I had the typical ringing in the ears for the first couple of hits and after the third hit is where nothing really describes how I felt. While I vaguely remember seeing intricate geometric visuals and spiralling down tunnels, what I remember most clearly was being immensely confused. I didn't have any of the typical entity contact/ visiting other dimensions as some people describe, all I can remember was being utterly bewildered. During the trip, I had no clue where I was, who I was, or what I was doing... It was almost like an extreme case of amnesia that only lasted for 5 minutes. Overall, the experience was interesting although it was rather uneasy due to the lack of any sort of clarity during the trip.

Post-trip I just felt happy to be alive and have a new appreciation for my life and what it means to be alive.

I was wondering if any of you have had the same experience with this level of confusion during a trip. Are there any measures I can take to have a more lucid trip?

Thanks for reading
 
expandinguniverse said:
...Post-trip I just felt happy to be alive and have a new appreciation for my life and what it means to be alive.

I was wondering if any of you have had the same experience with this level of confusion during a trip. Are there any measures I can take to have a more lucid trip? ...
Click to expand...
A thorough perspective shift, just that on its own without a tale to tell, can have life altering insights as you did. The insight(s) does not necessarily has to be produced inside the trip, it can come afterwards which people often consider an act of integration. It can work like a slap in the face to wake up, the slap itself is a strange case to study and talk about, but its effects are nevertheless products of high interest.

So I suggest to not focus on the trip alone, but to contemplate the whole package. In that regard I think you did well.

But I do understand your lean for a more comprehensible glide. You could have more harmalas in the changa (I've no idea how much harmalas were already in that 50%) but another take-on that I favor is to have harmalas only like oral 1 hour in advance on a not stuffed stomach. Or consider a full oral pharmahuasca session. The pace goes down tremendously and all become more psychological therapy, yet it will be less visual. There will be specific body load though in the come up to deal with, but once over that point comes the good part :thumb_up:
 
Hi I've never done DMT before but am just wondering myself you said that you don't really remember much or that you were just confused the whole time. So what was it exactly that changed your perspective?
 
Thanks for your input Jees. I 100% agree with what you've said about the necessity to integrate experiences. I might try experimenting with varying harmalas mixture in the future.
 
MountainTraveler said:
Hi I've never done DMT before but am just wondering myself you said that you don't really remember much or that you were just confused the whole time. So what was it exactly that changed your perspective?
Click to expand...

Hi Mountain Traveler,

To pin down my change in perspective down to a single cause is pretty hard. As I said before, during the trip I was in a state of utter confusion and had no idea of who I was or what a human body even meant. Soon as the trip started to subside, bits of my psyche slowly came back together. I guess at this stage realising that I was actually a human with the ability to lead a conscious life really made me appreciate the value of my life.

This was also my first time experiencing ego-death and I think it's important to factor that in. I think ego-death, through whatever means it is achieved, has the ability to change one's perspective on many matters. Until today, I had no clue what people mean when they talk about "ego-death" and could have never imagined that such an experience could be possible.
 
:) hello...we was just reading a book called 'Highest Yoga Tantra' (Anuttarayogatantra) which is not written by a monk, but by a western scholar (we think) so it (can) shed some moar light into (classified) matters that may/or may not have relevance for the entheogenic psychonaut.

It does so by comparing the traditional monastic tantras (guhyasamaja, chakrasamvara, yamantaka...etc) with the kalachakra and by pointing out the differences and similarities, one (can) learn a lot.

Stuff that other books typically omit....here is a google preview
 
expandinguniverse said:
...I was in a state of utter confusion and had no idea of who I was or what a human body even meant...
Click to expand...
I recognize this a bit, maybe not the same but once both I and existence got chopped up in little fragments and all those splinters got randomly re-arranged like a deck of cards shuffled and then as a complete utter nonsense result fired on me. 😁
Direct what/how/why investigations crash soon.
Yet the movement, the ability to move/relax between perspectives, creates a plasticity for bending with winds of existence, its almost mechanical :twisted: Soul Yoga taking on asanas.
 
Oh thank you so much for this post. I thought I was the only one not to see the DMT elves or have an experience that had any resemblance of narrative.

I was actually a very tiny bit disappointed by it to begin with, whilst it was still absolutely incredible - I really wanted something utterly profound to occur. Some instant revelation. It was not to be.

Confused is DEFINITELY the best descriptor of my experience too. I did not know and could not fathom whether I was upside down, inside out, back to front, where I was, who I was, if I existed, if I was alive still... I felt quite anxious, disorientated, and I felt as though I hadn't taken a breath throughout the entire trip. It's like I forgot to exhale or something... I don't know. When I did exhale, the room began to return, the couch I was sitting on returned, I myself returned from 'elsewhere' (sort of... It was like an out of body feeling. Again I wondered if I had died). I enjoyed some cool neon like visuals for the next 5 mins or so. And eventually some mild euphoria at the fact I was indeed still alive.

The experience was neither entirely positive nor negative. I had expectations that weren't met (as is usual with expectations of the preconceived variety). However it has sent me on a mission to learn. I have been reading voraciously... Sacred geometry, psionics, time, consciousness, quantum physics, the pineal gland, you name it. I figure that is where 'it' wants me to go. Knowledge.

I am going back tonight. I will be in my own home this time, with a very close friend. I am such a homebody, and being at someone else's house who I haven't known for an overly long amount of time probably had something to do with my experience, I don't know whether I am describing some sort of resistance or something? Either that or I had considered the possibility my dose was too high.

I am so glad I am not alone, and you are not alone. I am fairly sure our experiences are in alignment. I'd love to discuss more with you. Where are you going to go with it next?
 
Who are we? What are we? Are we remembering or forgetting?

The shock of not having a body can bring about an odd confusion. We grasp for something, like falling from a ladder. The reaction is automatic. But when you jump out of a plane and are falling through the sky there is nothing to grasp onto. Your mind still wants to grasp and goes into a sensory overload of sorts. Grasping and not understanding why the ground does not come. Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
 
DmnStr8 said:
Who are we? What are we? Are we remembering or forgetting?

The shock of not having a body can bring about an odd confusion. We grasp for something, like falling from a ladder. The reaction is automatic. But when you jump out of a plane and are falling through the sky there is nothing to grasp onto. Your mind still wants to grasp and goes into a sensory overload of sorts. Grasping and not understanding why the ground does not come. Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
Click to expand...



It couldn't have been said more eloquently... Thank you.
 
Skyhighatrist, it seems like we had almost identical experiences. Personally, I'm an extremely analytic person. Much of the joy I get out of this life is through a scientific understanding of the world around me. Reflecting back, I think I had a natural tendency to analyse the trip as it was underway and I think this was the root of the confusion and anxiety. In such an altered state of mind, any attempt to rationally justify what i was seeing during the experience was utterly futile.

DmnStr8 said:
Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
Click to expand...

DmnStr8 puts this really well. For me, I think the next step is letting my mind relax. Previously, I viewed meditation as just a thing I did everyday for 10 mins and would be good for me in the long run. But now I feel that in order to further explore the DMT realm, a clear mind is an absolute necessity. I will be taking my mediation practice a lot more seriously.

Going forward, I think I might experiment with a few more sub-breakthrough doses just to get my mind and body used to the feeling of letting go. As I learnt from my trip it's easy tell yourself you're going to let go in the days prior to a trip. But during the trip, letting go of everything that makes you - 'you' and gives you identity, purpose and meaning in life is easier said than done.

Skyhighatrist, I'm assuming this was your first breakthrough as well. Did you experiment with sub-breakthrough doses before or did you just take the leap for the first time?
 
expandinguniverse said:
MountainTraveler said:
This was also my first time experiencing ego-death and I think it's important to factor that in. I think ego-death, through whatever means it is achieved, has the ability to change one's perspective on many matters. Until today, I had no clue what people mean when they talk about "ego-death" and could have never imagined that such an experience could be possible.
Click to expand...

That sounds like quite the experienced and ego death is something that I haven't experienced in years. I wonder how it will be experiencing it now or in the near future. Thanks of the insight.
Click to expand...
 
DmnStr8 said:
Who are we? What are we? Are we remembering or forgetting?
The shock of not having a body can bring about an odd confusion. We grasp for something, like falling from a ladder. The reaction is automatic. But when you jump out of a plane and are falling through the sky there is nothing to grasp onto. Your mind still wants to grasp and goes into a sensory overload of sorts. Grasping and not understanding why the ground does not come. Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
Click to expand...
:thumb_up:
[YOUTUBE]
...having wings is followed by flight....
 
expandinguniverse said:
Skyhighatrist, it seems like we had almost identical experiences. Personally, I'm an extremely analytic person. Much of the joy I get out of this life is through a scientific understanding of the world around me. Reflecting back, I think I had a natural tendency to analyse the trip as it was underway and I think this was the root of the confusion and anxiety. In such an altered state of mind, any attempt to rationally justify what i was seeing during the experience was utterly futile.

DmnStr8 said:
Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
Click to expand...

DmnStr8 puts this really well. For me, I think the next step is letting my mind relax. Previously, I viewed meditation as just a thing I did everyday for 10 mins and would be good for me in the long run. But now I feel that in order to further explore the DMT realm, a clear mind is an absolute necessity. I will be taking my mediation practice a lot more seriously.

Going forward, I think I might experiment with a few more sub-breakthrough doses just to get my mind and body used to the feeling of letting go. As I learnt from my trip it's easy tell yourself you're going to let go in the days prior to a trip. But during the trip, letting go of everything that makes you - 'you' and gives you identity, purpose and meaning in life is easier said than done.

Skyhighatrist, I'm assuming this was your first breakthrough as well. Did you experiment with sub-breakthrough doses before or did you just take the leap for the first time?
Click to expand...


Oh I jumped right in on breakthrough doses and have broken through twice and been just as confused twice. I don't know where I found the lady-balls for it really, I've always had a very, very healthy level of respect (fear!) for anything hallucinogenic. So much so I had completely stayed away from any other hallucinogen until my birthday a couple of months ago where Dimitri and I started our affair. Besides a couple of pingers back in the day which were mildly trippy. Dimitri is not quite in the same ballpark, playing the same game, or on the same team. I had done a pretty good deal of research over the last couple of years though, and that part is definitely ongoing. Sometimes though I think it would've helped not to read so much beforehand. Knowledge is power but it also sets up expectations.

Last nights trip I decided to rain check. I was in a weird mood with lots of conflicts going on around me at the moment. That sends me into a bit of turmoil at the best of times and I thought it best not to exacerbate that. I'm a very emotionally sensitive person, as in other people's energies really affect me, and I take on people's issues as if they're my own. Im also very analytical and reflective though.

Thank you all for hitting the nail on the head... LET GO is the answer. I like control, but want to surrender it. Im coming to realise it's one of few (if not the only) ways to truly evolve as a person.

I've never posted on forums before. This thread is the first time I've responded to anything and it's been beyond helpful. Love that this place exists. And love that people like all of you exist. Cannot imagine going into this journey completely blind! But hey I guess that's what you do when you let go. Cosmic.

Peace X
 
So I had an experience last night that resonates a lot with some of the things said in this thread.
I can honestly say that it was one of the most powerful experiences of my life. I'm absolutely astounded by the intensity of it.
So I've been trying for a while now to have a 'breakthrough' experience. It seems like my body isn't very sensitive to dmt as I need to smoke quite a bit more than others to get similar effects. So last night I loaded up a bong with just over 50mg of yellowish dmt crystals (sandwich method) and to the best of my abilities, tried to get it all in with 2 big hits from a large glass bong. I think I got most of it down and then.... Nothing. Well, nothing major.
Feeling pretty disappointed as i go through quite a process of preparation before smoking dmt (setting up a good space, meditation,yoga etc.) and still feeling like I'm ready for something big, I decided to load up the bong with some jungle spice changa I have. This was by far the most changa I'd smoked in one go. I got down two big hits and then shortly after that things went completely off the rails. The first thing that happened was I got a strong sensation of needing to vomit. Now, the ideal here would be for a sitter to bring me something to vomit into. I didn't have one of those, sitter or vomit receptacle. I was home alone, sitting in the lounge on the couch and I decided I needed to find something to puke into. The issue at this point was, I could barely see my lounge any more. It was a swirling mess of patters, furniture and objects. I remembered that I had a plastic bowl in one of my kitchen cupboards (right next to the lounge, it's open plan) so I got up and stumbled over to the kitchen. By the time I reached the cupboard, it was no longer recognisable as my cupboard and even opening it took all my willpower. Inside was a completely bewildering space filled with strange objects and I didn't even know what I was looking for at this point. I decided to give up searching for this elusive object, partly because I had no idea what it looked like and partly because I could no longer tell my hands apart from the things I was touching. Reality was beginning to come apart.
So here's where things really took a turn for the bizarre and terrifying. The next few minutes are extremely hard to recall but this is where the real experience happened. I stepped away from the cupboard and it was like everything around me as well as myself were ripped apart and thrown into a hurricane. Both me and my kitchen were broken into many different pieces and as I was swirling around in the chaos of what seemed like a metaphysical hurricane, I would come together in all sorts of strange configurations. I would then be ripped apart again and thrown back into the chaos. It was like trying to put back together a puzzle that was me and my surroundings, except the pieces were made of smoke and as soon as I grabbed onto something, it would fly apart again. Looking back, this probably only went on for a few minutes but to me, that hurricane raged on for ages. I can distincly remember at one point trying to grab onto something and realizing that I didn't have an arm just then and my whole lower half was missing too. I would say it was terrifying but that doesn't quite cut it. So after a while, I managed to grab onto the kitchen counter closest to the lounge and realised that I was mostly together at that point. Well, I was back in my body but still standing in a hurricane. I had the idea that I needed to get back to the couch and I set this as my goal. Even though the couch is literally 5 feet from the counter, I still couldn't see it at all and it felt like I was setting out on a perilous journey. I eventually made my way back to the couch and I can't even describe the relief I felt. I was safe. For the next half an hour or so, the visuals were still extremely intense but to me, It was such a contrast to what I'd just experienced that it felt like I was down. I sat on the couch literally with my mouth hanging open at the profound intensity of what I had just experienced.
So something that left a strong impression on me was a moment just as I sat back down on the couch. I could feel that the most intense part of the experience was beginning to fade and instead of turning away from it, I grabbed hold of the thing and focused my awareness on it to the fullest that I could. I blazed back into the peak of the experience momentarily, just to be able to remember where I had been. I feel like in that moment, I showed myself the strength that I have within me.
I'm still coming to terms with what happened last night but this experience has definitely given me a new level of respect for this substance. Powerful is an understatement. I also now see why a sitter is so important for high dose experiences.
 
What dose did you use in your previous, sub-breakthrough, trips?

In my experience, 55 mg of DMT is possibly a lot more than you'd need for a breakthrough. Maybe if you toned it down a bit to 35-40, things might be a little less chaotic.

What you're describing, to me, is more like how salvia feels. Confused, shapes and colors, not really knowing whats happening, chaotic and seemingly meaningless.

I haven't felt like that with DMT, and I've broken through on quite a bit less than 55 mg.
 
In experimenting with sub-breakthrough doses, I tried doses of 20,30,40 mg dmt. While those experiences were interesting in their own right, I required ~ 55mg to feel a complete loss of reality. It may be that i've got a naturally high tolerance for dmt..?

Thevoidwithin, sounds like an extremely powerful experience. One thing that I might suggest is using changa containing less MAOI's . that's probably where your nasuea and desire to vomit is coming from.
 
On one day a 20 is really doing nothing more than a tryptamine body feeling, other day it slams me out of this realm for a very short phase. Same product & style of conduct, each time GVG was clear thus no remainders waiting to add to the next. Unpredictable here.
 
DmnStr8 said:
Who are we? What are we? Are we remembering or forgetting?

The shock of not having a body can bring about an odd confusion. We grasp for something, like falling from a ladder. The reaction is automatic. But when you jump out of a plane and are falling through the sky there is nothing to grasp onto. Your mind still wants to grasp and goes into a sensory overload of sorts. Grasping and not understanding why the ground does not come. Once the mind accepts the freefall, that the ground is not coming, then it can begin to relax and observe. Let your mind soar through the skies. Use your wings.
Click to expand...

This whole thread is very helpful for me, but especially this comment. I'd describe my first breakthrough very similarly to the OP. It's as if I have no idea what happened. It was exhilarating, but I've yet to have an experience that could be described like those I read on here. No change of scenery or entity contact, Just patterns, colors and white light. It's as if I either go way too deep or not deep enough. I think I have spent too much time reading about the molecule instead of soul searching and meditating. My preconceived notions seem to be anchoring me rather than just taking the journey for what it is.
 
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