Hello to everyone. I am performing my first manske extraction right now. Dissolved the alkaloids in 230 ml of hot distilled water with vinegar and added 23 grams of sea salt without iodine while it was still hot. I then procedded to "swirl" the salt i added inside the solution, to give it a good mix. Should i have just left the salt to settle on the bottom of the jar i used instead when i dropped it in the water? Does it even matter? Thank you.
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First manske extraction, some help please?
- Thread starter Locoboy
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- Merits
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the salt should be fully dissolved into the hot solution, then as it cools down the crystals will crash out.. you can reheat the solution while stirring until all the salt dissolves and the solution boils.. then leave it to cool slowly
blue.magic
Esteemed member
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The salt must be fully dissolved as it can react only in solution.
If your crystals crash out too squickly, you can always reheat the solution (I use microwave) to dissolve everything, dilute the solution a bit with fresh water and leave to cool down slowly.
Harmala hydrochlorides are freely soluble in water solution but only slightly soluble in cold. This is what drives the precipitation reaction.
If your crystals crash out too squickly, you can always reheat the solution (I use microwave) to dissolve everything, dilute the solution a bit with fresh water and leave to cool down slowly.
Harmala hydrochlorides are freely soluble in water solution but only slightly soluble in cold. This is what drives the precipitation reaction.
Thanks a lot for the pointers guys! I did not bring the water to a boil when i dissolved the harmalas and the salt in. It was about 80C, i counted the temperature with a thermometer. I then put it in a bigger pot with how water to cool more slowly. I left it there for about 1,5 hour.
Then I left it at room temperature. After about 3 hours i saw the first crystals started forming on the bottom of the jar. I leave them like that for about 24 hours to be sure that all crystals have formed right?
Then I left it at room temperature. After about 3 hours i saw the first crystals started forming on the bottom of the jar. I leave them like that for about 24 hours to be sure that all crystals have formed right?
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No need to let it boil, i let it boil just to be sure, what matters is that the solution is hot and the salt is fully dissolved
After that you leave it undisturbed to cool to room temp, you can put it in the fridge for few more hours to be sure most of the harmalas crashed out..
You can put the jar in hot water as you did, this way it cools more slowly and you get bigger crystals, but you should not remove it from it until it all reaches room temp
After that you leave it undisturbed to cool to room temp, you can put it in the fridge for few more hours to be sure most of the harmalas crashed out..
You can put the jar in hot water as you did, this way it cools more slowly and you get bigger crystals, but you should not remove it from it until it all reaches room temp
Yes my friend, later i found out that i had removed the jar too early from the hot water in the pot. I will put the jar in the fridge like you suggested. And I am gonna keep the water from the first manske after I filter it, boil it and let salt dissolve again in case i missed some crystals. Thanks a lot for your help!
- Merits
- 135
You're welcome friend 
Even if the manske was done properly there's some harmala salt left dissolved in solution, around 5%, you might have more, the way to recover it is by reducing the leftover solution by half, then let it cool to room temp. If you think it's worth it then you can try it
Even if the manske was done properly there's some harmala salt left dissolved in solution, around 5%, you might have more, the way to recover it is by reducing the leftover solution by half, then let it cool to room temp. If you think it's worth it then you can try it
Sakkadelic, i did as you said with the leftover solution!
Considering the second manske, I did the same procedure the second time, after i dissolved the crystals that had formed in the bottom of the jar with how water and a little bit of vinegar. A nice almost transparent red liquid formed like that shown on the Tao of Rue extraction. I then proceeded to boil again the transparent red liquid (it is about 100 ml) and add 10g of sea salt and...Uh-oh, something seemed to go wrong from the beginning.
The transparent red liquid turned to yellow-gold like the one shown in the pictures i posted. Any idea on what is wrong and how i could proceed? Thank you very much!
Considering the second manske, I did the same procedure the second time, after i dissolved the crystals that had formed in the bottom of the jar with how water and a little bit of vinegar. A nice almost transparent red liquid formed like that shown on the Tao of Rue extraction. I then proceeded to boil again the transparent red liquid (it is about 100 ml) and add 10g of sea salt and...Uh-oh, something seemed to go wrong from the beginning.
The transparent red liquid turned to yellow-gold like the one shown in the pictures i posted. Any idea on what is wrong and how i could proceed? Thank you very much!
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It seems like the solution was concentrated and the crystals crashed out too fast, if all the salt you added had dissolved before this happened then you can collect the crystals.. it's better to do as blue.magic said above, add a bit more water, reheat until everything dissolves and let it cool, like this you know there's no undissolved salt left
And there's no need to add vinegar when doing this
And there's no need to add vinegar when doing this
I think it started happening the moment i started stirring the salt inside the solution but i am not sure. When you say "collect the crystals" you mean to pass them through a coffee filter even now? I missed blue.magic's response :O.
So i add a little bit more of distilled water, bring it near boiling, then let it cool slowly and that's it. I am doing all that to get harmaline and convet it to THH. Do you think it is absolutely nescessary that i do the manske extraction as well after A/B? Elrik had answered me in another thread i had opened about the conversion and had suggested manske after A/B.
Thanks to both of you for solving my newbie questions!
So i add a little bit more of distilled water, bring it near boiling, then let it cool slowly and that's it. I am doing all that to get harmaline and convet it to THH. Do you think it is absolutely nescessary that i do the manske extraction as well after A/B? Elrik had answered me in another thread i had opened about the conversion and had suggested manske after A/B.
Thanks to both of you for solving my newbie questions!
- Merits
- 135
yeah you want to make sure everything is dissolved before you leave the solution to cool. and yes by collecting i mean filtering and drying the crystals, but since it happened as you started stirring the salt into solution then most likely some of the slat was not dissolved.. so yes you have to reheat it and add water just until everything dissolves, then even if the crystals crash out fast again you'd be sure there is no undissolved salt..
i never did the conversion so i don't know if it will make a difference or not but it sure seems better to work with a cleaner manske product
i never did the conversion so i don't know if it will make a difference or not but it sure seems better to work with a cleaner manske product
I did it again per yours and blue.magic's instructions and everything was ok, crystals finally formed, i finished my second manske today, alkaloids seems much purer compared to the first round! I have two other solutions for which i am doing the same.
Have you guys tried this procedure for alkaloids of other plants as well? I have some Catuaba and Bobinsana for which i am interested in doing some A/Bs. Sakkadelic, if you don't mind me asking how come that you never did the conversion to THH? It is a substance that seems to have interesting qualities.
And I am wondering how THH is so prevalent in brews of various Amazonian Tribes, the other day I was reading some info from the Nexus considering this subject but i don't remember where I found it.
Have you guys tried this procedure for alkaloids of other plants as well? I have some Catuaba and Bobinsana for which i am interested in doing some A/Bs. Sakkadelic, if you don't mind me asking how come that you never did the conversion to THH? It is a substance that seems to have interesting qualities.
And I am wondering how THH is so prevalent in brews of various Amazonian Tribes, the other day I was reading some info from the Nexus considering this subject but i don't remember where I found it.
- Merits
- 135
I have read interesting things about THH and i would love to try the reduction even just as an experiment it would be amazing.. i am not sure why i haven't done it yet, i will try it one day maybe after trying the vine i would be more drawn to it, i am still just few years into all this so it will come..
It would be awesome to do it as well, sounds like a very promising substance considering its effects . I am now in the process of separating Harmine from Harmaline in the first batch after 3 Manskes. In step 17 of Tao Rue Extraction it states " If one really wants mostly pure harmaline, one can redissolve the harmaline and again precipitate with same selective pH, and the first precipitation will be most of the harmine and the second will be purer harmine. Dry and enjoy ".
Obviously this is a typo? In my understanding, the first precipitation will yield mostly harmaline with harmine and the second one will yield even purer harmaline?
. I am now in the process of separating Harmine from Harmaline in the first batch after 3 Manskes. In step 17 of Tao Rue Extraction it states " If one really wants mostly pure harmaline, one can redissolve the harmaline and again precipitate with same selective pH, and the first precipitation will be most of the harmine and the second will be purer harmine. Dry and enjoy ".Obviously this is a typo? In my understanding, the first precipitation will yield mostly harmaline with harmine and the second one will yield even purer harmaline?
- Merits
- 135
yeah they surely meant harmaline at the end. i never done the separation too but i also think it would be amazing and i will do it one day.. i believe it happened by itself once though i don't know how, it is the only logical explanation i found.
THH does seem like a promising substance from many things i read or simply bcz as you said it is in the brews of amazonian tribes and makes them special, or maybe it's the harmaline that makes the rue brew different?.. but THH on its own, i also read it's not that special, first it is a weak MAOI or doesn't have MAOI activity at all, and i haven't read anything astounding about it on its own.. but i do believe the synergy between the different harmala alakloids in each plant is what makes them special in their own way, just like how the "inactive" cannabinoids in the cannabis plant makes it much better and healing than pure THC.. so yeah i'd attribute the specialness of ayahuasca or rue to THH or harmaline but not on its own. these are just ideas, i don't know how true they are, and i don't have any experience with THH or ayahuasca.
THH does seem like a promising substance from many things i read or simply bcz as you said it is in the brews of amazonian tribes and makes them special, or maybe it's the harmaline that makes the rue brew different?.. but THH on its own, i also read it's not that special, first it is a weak MAOI or doesn't have MAOI activity at all, and i haven't read anything astounding about it on its own.. but i do believe the synergy between the different harmala alakloids in each plant is what makes them special in their own way, just like how the "inactive" cannabinoids in the cannabis plant makes it much better and healing than pure THC.. so yeah i'd attribute the specialness of ayahuasca or rue to THH or harmaline but not on its own. these are just ideas, i don't know how true they are, and i don't have any experience with THH or ayahuasca.
I have read reports that THH alone does produce a calming, zen like effect without the body load of other Harmala alkaloids. And that it's also a weak SRI. I am eager to test its synergy with other harmaloids, i would start with a ratio of 1:1:0,3 Harmine:THH:Harmaline respectively.
I brought the water to Pk 8,7 after the last Manske. Alkaloids started precipitating, mostly Harmine i guess. I waited for them to settle and i passed the water through a coffee filter collecting the Harmine.
Then, in the water that had passed through the filter, i proceeded to raise its PH with sodium carbonate, but instead i accidentally used water with vinegar!! I realised my mistake almost immediately and i proceeded to add sodium carbonate to the solution until Ph reached 10,4. Unfortunately i saw very little precipitation. Only 15 minutes have passed but i thought i would see immediate precipitation like with Harmine. Isn't that the case? Hope i did not screw up.
I brought the water to Pk 8,7 after the last Manske. Alkaloids started precipitating, mostly Harmine i guess. I waited for them to settle and i passed the water through a coffee filter collecting the Harmine.
Then, in the water that had passed through the filter, i proceeded to raise its PH with sodium carbonate, but instead i accidentally used water with vinegar!! I realised my mistake almost immediately and i proceeded to add sodium carbonate to the solution until Ph reached 10,4. Unfortunately i saw very little precipitation. Only 15 minutes have passed but i thought i would see immediate precipitation like with Harmine. Isn't that the case? Hope i did not screw up.
- Merits
- 135
yeah they usually crash out immediately when raising the PH high in a normal extraction.. though in phlux's tek the harmine takes hours to fully crash out and precipitate.. but he doesn't mention that when at the end adds more soda carb to precipitate the harmaline, your case seems to be the opposite.. did your harmine crash out immediately or did it take time like in phlux's tek? maybe you are getting wrong readings on the PH meter
PH meter seems ok, i tested it with Buffer PH 7 solution and calibrated it. I don't know if any kind of strange reaction took place with adding vinegar and then immediately after adding sodium. I will put the jar for a few hours in the fridge and see if i have any precipitation. After that, i will add lye to be certain that the solution is basic. If that does not work i don't know what i am going to do 
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- Merits
- 135
if nothing happens just collect everything and try to do the separation again.. nothing wasted
By collecting everything you mean passing the solution with the Harmaline in it through a coffee filter? And then try to dissolve it and basify it again? I added lye as well to the solution with the Harmaline and i see alkaloids looking like harmaline floating in the water but not precipitating.
