first time/freeze precipitation questions

[firstTIMER420]

after the naphtha separates the first time, and after I shake/separate the next 4 times for a total of 2 hours in the warm bath, I pull the naptha top layer and put it in the glass to put in the freezer. My question is what method do you guys use to seal the glass container the naphtha pulls go into?

I am going to try and use saran wrap over it, with tape so it completely seals, but im assuming the tape will un-stick when the precipitation forms in the freezer. what do you guys use?

any help is appreciated greatly

-thanks:thumb_up:

 

[wearepeople]

I really want to do this successfully, please if you can link me tek, id really appreciate it.

first time/freeze precipitation questions - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

the point of this was...?

Oooops!

Wrong link, my bad.

ACRB TEK 100g "PICS" (Newbie Friendly) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[firstTIMER420]

thank you lol, I was really confused for a while there.

I found that one but I wanted to make sure I had found the right one.

and as far as using a 2000ml flask, do you use a hot plate stirrer with it?
and as far as the steps where you need to shake it, how do you go about doing that with an ERL flask?

 

[null24]

Okay okay. not shameless self promotion.

Cyb's salt/earthwalker's tek & threads, read thicklight's thread, all of it, and backsalt, my friend. Presto!

Seek & Ye Shall Find. Its all here.

 

[firstTIMER420]

I am confused as to the clean up part, as well as a couple of other parts of earthwalkers tek, when it says:

"Step 2
place into this acidic water you're naphtha pulls that has been pulled from the basic soup

Important
Now rock or swirl this gently for as long as it takes to fully exchange the saturated naps to the acidic water
( roughly 10-15 mins ) Stop important pls read below ... !
When mixing the dmt enriched nps with the acidic water the fat content and some minuet plant dust ( depending on how finely powdered the bark ) will seperate in between the two layers and if shaken violently or roughly it can break up the brown fatty substance into smaller pieces which will then get caught up and form a fatty emulsion which will be very hard to break and can trap valuable dmt enriched liquid so please mix cautiously ! Thumbs up

Step 3
Now pipette or siphon out all the naphtha along with the brown fatty liquid that sits animated in between the two layers and discard this as it contains the plant fats and oils and no longer contains any alkaloids !!

Now the 500ml acidic water solution contains the dmt !"


so basically, we re-make another acidic solution with a pH of 2-3, then we place that into a 1 liter container, and we also place the 4 or 5 naphtha pulls just done into the container as well.
Then, after mixing for about 15 minutes carefully, I siphon out the top two layers, one being naphtha and the layer below that which is brown fatty stuff? the reason for taking those two layers out is that they no longer contain alkaloids, the acidic solution below contains contains the alkaloids now


after we siphon those layers off, we re-mix the acidic solution left over in the bottle with a fresh 50ml(lye)+200mL water mix, then top it off with a little bit more water, leaving a little room for the naphtha. after that we heat up 50mL more of naphtha in a hot water bath( anyone have a good temp to stop heating the napht. at?) and mix carefully again

during this part he says "now do this at least 4-5 times and this shaking wont cause an emulsion" does he mean shake carefully again as to not cause emulsion again or that shaking it hard wont cause any emulsion?

the next step is to mix and separate again just like before, but he says under the naphtha there will be a white fatty layer between the water and the new solvent. I have to make sure to NOT suck any of that up, just the top layer?


during the last part, he does a pre evap, basically he says to leave it to evap till half the liquid is gone, any suggestions for a time frame on that? or should I just skip the pre evap and go str8 to the freezer?

the last part im confused about is: "then once you get it out the freezer tip the naphtha of the top then place dish side on then fan dry
(please do this as quick as possible )" - does he mean to pour the top layer of naphtha off then place them on their sides with a fan blowing on them to dry? or to tip them and place on their sided so the naphtha pools in the bottom and evaps?

at the very end, he says he has been skipping the freezer part and just evapping regurlarly and been getting better crystals, im confused on how that is the case since I thought it has to be frozen to separate the crystals from the naphtha.



If anyone could help me with the answers to my questions it would really help me a lot, I don't want to waste any more of my bark and I really really do appreciate it, this is fun to me, but is very frustrating when It doesn't turn out the way I hope and all my work is for nothing. again, answer as much as possible, and I really do thank and appreciate it.

-THANKS-FT

 

[null24]

I am confused as to the clean up part, as well as a couple of other parts of earthwalkers tek, when it says:

"Step 2
place into this acidic water you're naphtha pulls that has been pulled from the basic soup

Important
Now rock or swirl this gently for as long as it takes to fully exchange the saturated naps to the acidic water
( roughly 10-15 mins ) Stop important pls read below ... !
When mixing the dmt enriched nps with the acidic water the fat content and some minuet plant dust ( depending on how finely powdered the bark ) will seperate in between the two layers and if shaken violently or roughly it can break up the brown fatty substance into smaller pieces which will then get caught up and form a fatty emulsion which will be very hard to break and can trap valuable dmt enriched liquid so please mix cautiously ! Thumbs up

Step 3
Now pipette or siphon out all the naphtha along with the brown fatty liquid that sits animated in between the two layers and discard this as it contains the plant fats and oils and no longer contains any alkaloids !!

Now the 500ml acidic water solution contains the dmt !"


so basically, we re-make another acidic solution with a pH of 2-3, then we place that into a 1 liter container, and we also place the 4 or 5 naphtha pulls just done into the container as well.
Then, after mixing for about 15 minutes carefully, I siphon out the top two layers, one being naphtha and the layer below that which is brown fatty stuff? the reason for taking those two layers out is that they no longer contain alkaloids, the acidic solution below contains contains the alkaloids now

Yup

after we siphon those layers off, we re-mix the acidic solution left over in the bottle with a fresh 50ml(lye)+200mL water mix, then top it off with a little bit more water, leaving a little room for the naphtha. after that we heat up 50mL more of naphtha in a hot water bath( anyone have a good temp to stop heating the napht. at?) and mix carefully again

during this part he says "now do this at least 4-5 times and this shaking wont cause an emulsion" does he mean shake carefully again as to not cause emulsion again or that shaking it hard wont cause any emulsion?

Like a maraca!

the next step is to mix and separate again just like before, but he says under the naphtha there will be a white fatty layer between the water and the new solvent. I have to make sure to NOT suck any of that up, just the top layer?

:thumb_up:

during the last part, he does a pre evap, basically he says to leave it to evap till half the liquid is gone, any suggestions for a time frame on that? or should I just skip the pre evap and go str8 to the freezer?

Just watch your dish. With a fan it can be minutes, without, hours

the last part im confused about is: "then once you get it out the freezer tip the naphtha of the top then place dish side on then fan dry
(please do this as quick as possible )" - does he mean to pour the top layer of naphtha off then place them on their sides with a fan blowing on them to dry? or to tip them and place on their sided so the naphtha pools in the bottom and evaps?

First

at the very end, he says he has been skipping the freezer part and just evapping regurlarly and been getting better crystals, im confused on how that is the case since I thought it has to be frozen to separate the crystals from the naphtha.

Not really.

If anyone could help me with the answers to my questions it would really help me a lot, I don't want to waste any more of my bark and I really really do appreciate it, this is fun to me, but is very frustrating when It doesn't turn out the way I hope and all my work is for nothing. again, answer as much as possible, and I really do thank and appreciate it.

-THANKS-FT

By the way, did you ever try out that miserable goo?

 

[firstTIMER420]

to start off, yes I tried the miserable goo, and believe me, I will be throwing the rest out as got a mild headache after using it and DID NOT breakthrough or even get close. I think part of the reason is that I do not have a good smoking apparatus, I was thinking of trying a crack pipe next time for better vaporization, any tips on good DMT vaping tools?(or giving it to someone I don't like! > )


when you say like a maraca, you mean DONT shake it like that or DO because it WILL NOT cause emulsion like it would have before?( I am interested, if we CAN shake it hard like a maraca now, why wont it cause emulsion like before?)

as far as heating up naphtha and other ingredients in a hot water bath, the temp should only get to 140F max right?

after we get the acidic solution with the 2 top layers taken out, we add the lye/water mix again, then immediately add 50mL of warm naphtha, and shake/separate 4-5 times again, then pull the naphtha off, just like before and place in a container.....SO, do we repeat the naphtha pull process 4 times like before in the beginning or just once?
(also, between adding the lye/water and the next step of adding the warm naphtha, we DO NOT mix it again, just go str8 into adding the naphtha right?)

and when you say first your agreeing with my statement after taking out of the freezer pour the naphtha off and place on side and blow with fan( this is after the pre evap with a fan)


Thank you for taking the time to answer my first round of questions, im just trying to get every angle of this down and understand it so I don't screw this up again, as I only have X amount of the ingredients necessary. If you need me to re-word any of my questions please let me know, because I really want this to work, DMT is an amazing molecule, and if I was able to successfully produce my own it would be the ultimate achievement in my book, and im also a chem major and if I cant do this I might as well change it lol.

(also, ive recently obtained equipment for when I get a little better at this, separatory funnel, Erlenmeyer flasks, etc, so when I get this basic method down I need to learn how to use these pieces of equipment for the process, but that is far ahead and I just need to focus on these questions and answers for now)

 

[firstTIMER420]

also, does anyone have a measurement for the amount of water to add during step 3, the step before adding the naphtha? it says to top it off but leave enough water to have room for 50ml of naphtha. I am going to be using a container that is bigger than 2L because I cannot find a 2L vessel.

If no one has suggestions I guess ill just have to measure the pH and get as close to 12.8 as I can.

also during step 3, he says "gently mixing and turning occasionally" - obviously gently mixing is gently mixing, but by turning does he mean turning end over end slowly and carefully?

sorry for the literal interpretations im just trying to be thorough.

 

[null24]

Okay, since i stepped in it, :roll:


I've only done the backsalt once, simply following ew's/cyb's tek threads as written. Read the entire threads, all your questions will be answered. Really, man, your frustration is unnecessary. Breath, read, relax. There's always more bark and working with it is a learning process. I think everyone here has thrown away a lot of failed extracts ( or not) in the process of learning the process. I'd like to see you "succeed" with your attempts, if for no other reason than to see you come back and grow, but I'm going against the no spoon feeding policy here a bit, idk why. Seriously, it's all here man. If you have trouble with the search function on the site ( and don't feel like the lone ranger if you do, :roll simply type your question into your googler and add the search string "dmt nexus" For instance, in regards to one of your ?'s:dmt nexus, extraction vessel Thhhhaaaat said..

Look up enhanced leaf for a good goo smoalk tek. If your goo is inactive, your bark may be bunk. Goo is good, imo.

Yes, afaik, you can shake the hell out of the backsalt soulution. I shake roll and swirl.

I heat naps til hot to touch.

Do naps pulls on the b/s solution (bss) till no longer cloudy. Maybe you could figure out how much dmt it takes to saturate the nps volume and guesstimate, I don't know, may help may not. (See above)

Yes on the fan, or if you aren't concerned about recovering nps, just full evap.

Other than that, follow the advice of the eternal toad who sits cross legged at the gate of infinity who says....' Ckhyyrooooaaaaalllkkkk'

( trans: ' seek, and ye shall find...)

 

[firstTIMER420]

hmm, I thought the freeze precipitation was necessary, but I guess ill just try full evap this time, I didn't think the crystals would form if I didn't freeze the nap, obviously I was mistaken.

Also, when I poured off my naptha from my last try after the freeze, I filtered it for the hell of it. I was left with this bright orange goo in the filter that I scraped as much as I could off. Im just wondering why it didn't stick to the plate and was floating around in the nap, that's what I thought the point of the freeze was, to precipitate it out of the nap and stick to the glass. Guess im misunderstanding it.

 

[BongWizard]

Freeze precipitation works by reducing the solubility of dmt in your non polar to near zero. Anything floating in your hot nps is likely rogue plant material. And when doing your second acid step, yes you want to mix thoroughly, but not vigorously enough to introduce air to the fat layer as this is the part that will emulsify. Evaporating to completion may not be a good idea either. If youre after really sharp crystals, evaporate to about 10% then freeze. Ime, complete evap always leaves the product somewhat doughy (very clean, but sticky).

Also, I agree with null, goo is good! Just mix with your favourite smokin herb and bong on brother!

 

[firstTIMER420]

thank you for the clarification

I am currently on the lookout for a 2L extraction vessel and think I will be able to get one tomorrow, after I get it I will be attempting my second extraction, I am confident it will go better.

I am using these q and a as references for my questions during the process and also to study so I have it in my mind and likely wont have and doubts or questions during the process.

thank you everyone for the help, will post the results when finished.

as far as the goo, it gave me a headache, and I didn't break thru, guess I just didn't smoke enough. I currently cannot smoke MJ or else it would be great to add to it!

Also, have any advice on smoking vessels? ive always used a regular ol bowl, WBU?

 

[BongWizard]

I usaually use a 2l narrow mouth Erlenmeyer flask for the extract and a roughly 4x8 shallow pyrex dish to evap then freeze precip. The thing to note is that more surface area is better for both evaping and precipitation. As for smoking apparatus, I use a machine I blew from pyrex tube which works really well.

 

[firstTIMER420]

I gotcha, I actually just bought a set of Erlenmeyer flasks but the biggest was 1L

Im thinking about buying a 2L one but im not sure as they can be pricey to get a good quality one.

I have a question, can you use or has anyone used a 2L HDPE jug for their extractions? the reason im asking is because people mostly use glass for their extractions and obviously HDPE isn't glass, just wondering if it was safe, and/or if someone has used with good results

also, do you know what size stopper a 2L Erlenmeyer flask uses?

 

[BongWizard]

I gotcha, I actually just bought a set of Erlenmeyer flasks but the biggest was 1L

Im thinking about buying a 2L one but im not sure as they can be pricey to get a good quality one.

I have a question, can you use or has anyone used a 2L HDPE jug for their extractions? the reason im asking is because people mostly use glass for their extractions and obviously HDPE isn't glass, just wondering if it was safe, and/or if someone has used with good results

also, do you know what size stopper a 2L Erlenmeyer flask uses?

I wouldn't use hdpe. It's not gonna have a great deal of structural integrity when heated in your double boiler.

Stopper size depends on the exact flask. Mine takes a #5. When you buy the flask, the outer diameter of the neck should be specified, go with a stopper whose top is 1-2mm larger than the OD.

Another good option is a volumetric flask. They don't hold that extra 10%, but the long neck makes them great for pulling light phase nps off with a syringe.

 

[firstTIMER420]

I guess ill go with a 2L erlen with a stopper. btw, know a good brand of erlen flask to purchase, I know of pyrex, but I cant get a single 2L one for some reason, just gonna do more digging I guess.

last question before I try this again, the glass baster I use isn't airtight I guess because when I suck liquid up, it immediately shoots it back out a little bit at a time, any way/technique to avoid this happening?( if you need me to explain better ill try, but if you've used one before I think you get the idea)
So from now on ive been using pipettes, im going to get bigger ones though, as the ones I have aren't big enough, I believe 6in like. average size.

 

[BongWizard]

Pyrex is just the material. It's a former brand name of a proprietary borosilicate glass. Almost all lab glassware is boro, so not to worry there. Just found this one one amazon for $25

http://www.amazon.com/Pyrex-Erlenmeyer-Flask-Measuring-000/dp/B005MIPIUM

Or direct from the manufacturer

http://www.seohcorp.com/seoh-pyrex-2l-narrow-mouth-erlenmeyer-flasks-with-heavy-duty-rim-1-pk/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

It doesn't specify the exact neck size, but it is a number 10 stopper.

As for the baster, try putting a rubber band as tightly as possible around the bottom edge of the rubber ball bit to see if you can seal it a bit better. Personally I use a 60mL plastic syringe with a short length of 4mm Teflon tubing on the tip so I can reach down into the flask (plus you can see the heavy phase coming up the tube if you hit it). The plastic syringes can get sticky after a few hot naphtha pulls, so the trick to make them last is to put a bit of anal lube (silicone based, not the water based stuff) down the plunger end before you start. I bought a dozen of them for about $10 a couple years ago and haven't had to reorder yet (I've still got 7 in the sterile wrapping, and that's only because I use 1 for nps, one for aqueous stuff and another one for alcohols and acetone)