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For those who believe that they are god

Migrated topic.
^^ if you're right warrensaged, which I'm pretty sure you are, I have pretty limited knowledge of DNA, then that is a pretty awe inspiring fact. To me, music is the essence of creativity. It astounds me how music can be so uninterpretable to animals, like your dog, yet it can have profound effects on our conscious waking state. I feel VERY God-like when I'm tripping and music produces synesthetic effects. Music has a way of spawning hallucinations that is just incredible.

If we use a simple definition of God, like a God is something that has the ability to create, then look no further, you are GOD!
 
I know very little about music; but I think the standard "diatonic" scale is only one of several possible "scale" structures--and one that sounds good especially to "western" ears. I don't know that there's any great underlying significance to that. Certainly, our feelings and perceptions about music are intriguing and mysterious. It has lately been shown that animals with an innate ability to mimic vocal patterns (some birds, like parrots, and also elephants--strangely) ALSO have a sense of rhythm/dance. The implication is that a sense of rhythm is necessary for learning speech. Here's an AMAZING VIDEO of a dancing cockatoo.

I know much more about DNA than I know about music--and there's no musical-scale-like patterning in DNA that I'm aware of.
 
burnt said:
The double helix of the Human DNA strand follows this same exact pattern (although I'm not gonna be able to explain this part as well).
The two outer strands called nucleotides, are connected together with the horizontal bars, called bases.
The bases that form the steps of the "DNA ladder", work the same way as the musical tone steps, repeating the same order of whole steps & half steps.

a full step (D/E)
a full step (E/F)
a half step (F/G)
a full step (G/A)
a half step (A/B)
a full step (B/C)
a full step (C/D)

Can someone more familiar with DNA explain that better?
What exactly is a half step, versus a whole step in DNA?

Or was I taught something totally wrong here?
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DNA is made up of 4 nucleotides. adenosine, guanine, cytosine and thymine. They are the bases.

They are each connected to on the outside part to a phosphate deoxyribose group. This phosphate group gives DNA a negative charge.

DNA takes the structure that it does because the bases complement each other. They hydrogen bond. A bonds to T and C to G. So each strands base pairs complement each other. The double helix is formed from this base pair bonding as well as the phosphate deoxyribose backbone.

I don't see how DNA repeats like musical tones. DNA doesn't repeat over and over and over. There are differences between different parts of the chain but they all still have the same double helix shape because of the backbone. I don't understand anything about music but if whoever explained this to you meant to imply that DNA continues to repeat itself from the very beginning to the very end (on a given chromosome) they are wrong.
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Ok..so you seem to know what you are talking about...now, in you're opinion, is there any possability of harmine somehow occupying the adenine bond site??..if I understand correctly I believe that was the simlified result of Dennis mckenna's theyory of hypercarbolation, resulting in some sort of broad-band signal from the DNA being broadcasted and picked up on a concious level...I read it a few years ago and am no expert biologist so...

I cant remember how the process was sopposed to happen..gunna go re-read it later..
 
Ok..so you seem to know what you are talking about...now, in you're opinion, is there any possability of harmine somehow occupying the adenine bond site??..if I understand correctly I believe that was the simlified result of Dennis mckenna's theyory of hypercarbolation, resulting in some sort of broad-band signal from the DNA being broadcasted and picked up on a concious level...I read it a few years ago and am no expert biologist so...
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If harmine binded to DNA in such a way in vivo it would be more likely to be a carcinogen. D McKennas ideas in the invisible landscape about this brain stuff and beta carbolines is mostly nonsense. I think the same about T McKennas ideas in the book but thats for other reasons.
 
fractal enchantment said:
...is there any possability of harmine somehow occupying the adenine bond site??...
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I certainly hope not. Intercalation of molecules within DNA is considered mutagenic. The best known example is the molecule benzene.

In any case, molecules that could bind to DNA wouldn't be expected to have "trip-like" short term effects. A molecule binding to DNA might be expected to alter (typically negatively) rates of transcription of one or a few genes (and thus change gene expression) in the short term--but that would take a little time to manifest (I would think at LEAST a few hours to see an observable systemic effect).
 
skippyluvs said:
Here are the questions -

For those of you who believe you are god and/or believe we/all of us are god how do you explain the following:

1) Why does/How come an event like Salvia entities battling DMT entitites when both are taken at roughly the same time (according to various trip reports out there) occurs in retrospect to the notion that you are god due to DMT?

2) How do you explain the multiverse/multidimensional theory in retrospect to these beliefs?

3) Do any of you have any quantum mechanic mathematics to support your position? If so could you write them down?
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My own current personal opinions, subject to change as new information comes in! :d


1) There is polarity in everything in life. Male/female, positive/negative, etc...I believe it possible to encounter these two polarities in any circumstance. Could be noticing the different chemicals as someone mentioned, could be something else. Duality is the essense of the life we live, not suprising that you would encounter opposition. I have encountered this duality/different factions on DMT only, so it is not unique to a combination of chemicals.

2) Everything in existence is Conscious, it is the backbone of reality.

The premise (taken from someone on Youtube) is to imagine the cells in your body. In some senses, a cell is a microcosm for the body as a whole. They take in nutrients, expose of waste, have organs, communicate with eachother, and can replicate, just to name a few. They make you a greater whole, while at the same time keeping thier individuality. Do they work in harmony with you? Or are they your slaves?

In addition to this, think of fractal geometry, which is ubiquitious thoughout nature.

Let us call this cell..."I" the cell.

So we have "I" the cell, and "I" the cell who combine to make "I" the tissue. They are still individual components with their own processes and needs, but have combined to make something greater...

I the tissue + I the tissue = I the organ
I the organ + I the organ = I the body
I the body + I the body = I the species (Collective Unconscious?)
I the species + I the species = I the planet (Gaia?)
I the planet + I the planet = I the solar system
I the solar system + I the solar system = I the galaxy
I the galaxy + I the galaxy = I the local cluster
I the cluster + I the cluster = I the universe
I the universe + I the universe = I the multiverse

We can go downwards as well...

I the atom + I the atom = I the molecule
I the molecule + I the molecule = I the amino acid
I the amino acid + I the amino acid = I the DNA
I the DNA + I the DNA = I the cell
I the cell + I the cell = I the tissue

Fractal sprirals (proven to exist everywhere in nature) going up and down in complexity and organization, yet each keeping its own individual characteristics and identity, while at the same time being a part of a greater whole, and working in perfect harmony with one another.

There is no first cause, there is an infinity of first causes. A blade of grass is a universe unto itself. A quark is a universe unto itself. Everything that was, is, or will be are all a universe unto itself. We are all creation, we are all a dream that's dreaming itself, that is dreaming itself... All inextricably linked thoughout time and space. It is conscsiousness. There is no beginning, and there is no end. All just is.

3) Membrane Theory, or Holographic Universe theory would be the ones to look into for this question.
 
I don't see how DNA repeats like musical tones. DNA doesn't repeat over and over and over. There are differences between different parts of the chain but they all still have the same double helix shape because of the backbone. I don't understand anything about music but if whoever explained this to you meant to imply that DNA continues to repeat itself from the very beginning to the very end (on a given chromosome) they are wrong.
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Like I said, I'm no expert in DNA, so I don't think I explained that very well at all.
Not only that it was a while ago that I heard about this & looked into it, what I learned, seemed to back this up, but it was years ago since I've read about it, so I could be a ways off here...

I was only talking about the "rungs" in the DNA "ladder", not necessarily that they repeat, but that some of them reach all the way between the two outer strands (whole step) & others only reach half way across (half step) and that they do this in a patten very similar to the pattern of musical notes & their sharps & flats.

Please Let me know if this is wrong!!

I know very little about music; but I think the standard "diatonic" scale is only one of several possible "scale" structures--and one that sounds good especially to "western" ears
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That is true, but I'm not talking about scales. all of those scales, still use the same 7 notes, & 5 sharps/flat.
How they fit together into chords, etc... is where the scales come in.

One exception is Indian music, like Sitar & Tabla music, from India.
They kind of have many, many more notes, but it's actually the same 7 notes, & 5 sharps/flats.
Then they have instruments, that are sophisticated enough to detail tone (frequency's) that exists in between the standard notes!!
Not truly creating new notes, but using the space between them.

Damn, that is so hard to explain in type!! Oof!:?

WS
 
warrensaged said:
...I was only talking about the "rungs" in the DNA "ladder", not necessarily that they repeat, but that some of them reach all the way between the two outer strands (whole step) & others only reach half way across (half step) and that they do this in a patten very similar to the pattern of musical notes & their sharps & flats.

Please Let me know if this is wrong!!
Click to expand...

Sorry. Wrong. Maybe you're thinking of something else and not describing it right. I'm interested in this idea if you can dig it up and point me toward it. All basepair combinations span the entire distance of the DNA "ladder." They have to.

warrensaged said:
...all of those scales, still use the same 7 notes, & 5 sharps/flat...
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I'm a bit out of my depth, but there are actually different scales than the diatonic (which has the pattern of full and half steps you note): The chromatic scale, for example, has 12 steps (where the diatonic has only 7), and they're all half steps (where the diatonic uses 2 half steps and 5 whole steps)
 
Yeah, Now I'm gonna have to remember & dig out what the hell I read about that, it did seem to make sense...then.:)

I'm a bit out of my depth, but there are actually different scales than the diatonic (which has the pattern of full and half steps you note): The chromatic scale, for example, has 12 steps (where the diatonic has only 7), and they're all half steps (where the diatonic uses 2 half steps and 5 whole steps)
Click to expand...

Right, that particular "scale" of measuring the notes, is counting the half stepped sharps & flats, as singular notes.
It's still the same amount of tones though, just looked at, or "scaled" a different way.

2 half steps and 5 whole steps, plus their 5 related sharps/flats on the diatonic scale, equals 12 singular notes on the chromatic scale.
Two different ways of using the available tones. And there's many, many more.

These notes also relate to the frequency scale of sound waves, or an equalizer, 440Hz is the exact same tone as the A note, below middle C on a piano. A symphony will usually tune to, A-440. Where all instruments play an A in the first octave which is a 440Hz tone to get, "in tune".
You can use a tone generator to tune your guitar if you know which exact frequency equals which note.
(or just tune the A string to 440Hz, & tune the other strings to it...😉 )
All notes, or tones are just varying lengths of sound waves, frequency measure on a much finer scale though, by the length of the sound wave.

But this is getting way off topic ah...:oops:

WS
 
Also in the topic of perceiving music, I believe it was recently proven that we, and every other species that vocalize (including fish and crocodiles) use the same part of the brain to vocalize, no matter how our vocalizations come out (most are nothing like us human's and our wacky and wild jibberish). This, coupled with them dancing, and just most every animal I've ever been around's keen sense of atmosphere - I believe they perceive it just as much as we do. They weren't taught to dance to a beat around a drum like we were, so they may express their joy of music in other ways. I have definitely heard animals barking and cawing along with things as if they were singing - or at least enraptured in the same vibe.

Of course it could all be written off as coincidence or anything else, but I definitely believe there's a lot we can learn from animals - at least according to the belief in question they are part of god too, so why shouldn't they be just as mysterious and infinite?
 
warrensaged said:
fractal enchantment said:
God is such a thrown around, permiscuous word, and prob alwasy has been...things just are..look at science, look at music, look at mathematics, the connections are there..and it doesnt take DMT or salvia to realise that.
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Well put man!!

As far as the music connection, do you realize that human DNA & the musical notes we use follow the same pattern?
As the tones step up & down to the next note, some have flat's and/or sharp's, which are 1/2 stepped tones, in between the notes.
Here is a visual of how the scale of notes goes:

A
B
B-sharp/C-flat (same note)
C
C-sharp/D-flat
D
D-sharp/E-flat
E
E-sharp/F-flat
F
G
G-sharp/A-flat
A

There is no sharp or flat (half step) between A & B, or F & G.
They are a half step
A-sharp, is B.
B-flat, is A.
F-sharp, is G.
G-flat, is F.
All others are full steps, with half steps in between.


The double helix of the Human DNA strand follows this same exact pattern (although I'm not gonna be able to explain this part as well).
The two outer strands called nucleotides, are connected together with the horizontal bars, called bases.
The bases that form the steps of the "DNA ladder", work the same way as the musical tone steps, repeating the same order of whole steps & half steps.

a full step (D/E)
a full step (E/F)
a half step (F/G)
a full step (G/A)
a half step (A/B)
a full step (B/C)
a full step (C/D)

Can someone more familiar with DNA explain that better?
What exactly is a half step, versus a whole step in DNA?

Or was I taught something totally wrong here?

WS
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I also disagree with warren (and agree with burnt that the double helix of human DNA follows the same pattern as musical notes. This whole argument is flawed for various reasons:

1) There is no such patterning of the steps of the ladder of B-DNA (the type of DNA people are more familiar with). There is not such thing as half-step, either in human or other creatures' DNA. There is no such patterning on the other forms of DNA also commonly found in nature, like A-DNA, Z-DNA, cruciforms, palindromes, etc.etc.

2) The stepping of musical notes is the kind of stepping the european adopted. Other types of music use different "steps" like oriental and eastern music (like they can have 1/4 steps as well or even 1/3). We shouldn't suppose that the DNA of people who created these steps has the same patterning!

Hope that clarifies it!
 
Saidin said:
Interesting, there are definatel correlations between harmonics and the structure of matter...
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This is an interesting post.
Have any of you seen this clip which shows the relationship between different sound frquencies and the organisation of matter. The higher the frequency the more complex the pattern!!


Its fascinating
 
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Alright, I'm pretty sure I remembered this incorrectly now.
I can't find the exact thing I read about this after hearing about it years ago, but I did find something that is more than likely, very similar to what I saw back then & I either misread it, or just forgot (or meshed) the details over time.

protein_music

I think what I read years ago, got more into describing how they where relating the steps in music to DNA, to do this kind of xperiment though.

Thanks for correcting me on this guys! I hate being full of shit!!:oops:
I think what this article is saying though, is just as fascinating!!


BTW like I mentioned before, Eastern music does have more notes, but they are not truly any more tones, just smaller divisions of the sharps & flats. Their sharps & flats, have sharps & flats of their own & their instruments & music detail it.
Plus, where Western music uses octaves to "scale down" the amount of musical notes needed to represent the tones, Some eastern music does not.
Instead, they see each tone as it's own note, where we use octaves to break up the tones into only 12 individual notes, in levels called octaves.
It's a bit more more like the frequency scale I was talking about. But still the same exact tones are used, just looked at differently.
BTW, frequency follows these octaves as well, a 440Hz waveform, giving off an A-note, will have an octave that is half the wave length at 880Hz, giving off an A-note one octave up, but perfectly in tune.
Lets say that one cycle of that 440Hz sound wave (A in the first octave) is 2 inches long, the 880Hz sound wave (A in the second octave) would be 1 inch long. Exactly half the length, giving off the same frequency at a higher pitch, one octave up.
That pattern keeps repeating from 0Hz, to infinity, although human ears can only physically hear from 20Hz at the lowest frequency, to 20,000Hz at the highest.
(Those of you doing recording & mixing out there can use your EQ's "musically", if you understand the connection between the frequency's marked on your EQ & the notes being played. So you can precisely EQ that "weak" bass note, not just broadly boost the bass!😉 Helps to know the key that the song is in.)


Which window are you going to use to look out of, at the same front yard?
The view of that yard changes, depending which window of your house you are using to look at it through.
But it is still the same yard.

This thread has gone into a really interesting place! Sorry skippyluvs!

WS
 
Even though musical scales come in dozens of arrangements of steps, I liked Warrensaged's analogy because the universe IS a constant wave of patterns, which truly is like music. Everything we sense, which is everything that can be, is assembled by patterns on top of patterns. Our attraction to music is based on pattern. We rarely assemble random sounds and make it into a Top 100 Hit. It is normally patterns. Patterns of rhythm, patterns of melody, beats, and arrangement of chorus and verse. Sentience is assembled likewise.
 
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