Freak out - or perish.

[shoe]

Freak out in hyperspace. hyperventilate, feel like you are dying, loose your ego, loose your mind, loose all sense of time, cry uncontrollably, be smashed into 10,000 little pieces and experience giant white squid tentacle elephants sapping at the very essence of your soul.

You aren't going to like this, but I must make this point. In Psychology, a man named Skinner developed the theory of operant conditioning, basically alot of work involving pidgeons and rats pushing levers to receive positive or negative reinforcement, and this changed their behaviour.

anyway, I would just like to point out that if you haven't freaked out, you probably should. Good/Enlightening/Positive DMT Experiences can be strongly positively reinforcing, meaning that you will come back to the sacrement again and again. Although DMT may not be addictive physically, any substance can be psychologically addictive. I think many of our members here at the nexus fall into this category. how many other members of society regularly inhale vaporised dimethyltryptamine - the most powerful hallucinogenic mollecule known to man on a monthly, weekly or even, daresay, daily basis? exactly, we are not a normal subsection of society.

While everyone is unique, I think DMT should perhaps be used a lot, lot less than most of us actually use it.

So - in the interest of a healthy balance, Make sure you freak the fuck out, atleast once in a while.

Peace Everyone.

 

[mattritt]

HAHAHA, YES!! Shoe is right. Freak your lid, OR DIE!!!!!

j/k

Though I have wondered this. Maybe all this enlightenment is a side effect of the drug, the effects profile sort of. Its mechanism of bringing us back. Maybe its all a false sense of hope dare I say.

Yet on the other hand the spice has caused me to make MANY positive changes in my life aswell as psilocybin getting me to stop smoking weed. (breaking a long standing addiction OVERNIGHT)

Interesting topic, I've thought about this alot.

 

[teotenakeltje]

i think it's pretty personal. I can only speak for myself, and i could not imagine smoking dmt daily, not even weekly or monthly...but this is probably because,like you mentioned shoe, i did freak out a bit during my first time..well not really freaking out during but being rather IMPRESSED afterwards. DMT probably showed me some respect..wich i didn't had before.
It depends on how far you want to go down the rabithole i suppose...since i have a daughter to raise i can't permit myself too big of an alienation, something i'm considering whole the time
peace

 

[Felnik]

Yes a good freek out once in a while will maintain a healthy respect for the stuff.
I think its ok to have periods of intense useage as long as you know when to stop for a while.

Processing the experiences is an important piece of it in my opinion. Getting your feet firmly reestablished on the terra firma of our allotted reality plain is a good thing.

The firmer you plant yourself here (in your normal life) the Farther you can jump into the abyss .

 

[mattritt]

Yea I like that, I always try to plant myself and I take GREAT care in waiting for the perfect time for launch in the perfect place. I can honestly say that I don't abuse the molecule at this point in my life. I have a DEEP respect for it and rarely launch unless it is that time.

 

[Pokey]

So - in the interest of a healthy balance, Make sure you freak the fuck out, atleast once in a while.

Ummmm.... Done.:shock:

Pokey

 

[Pandora]

Hello,

shoe, are you speaking from experience? Or theory? Were you a psychological DMT addict who freaked the fuck out and that got things under control for you?

Wow. I have some feelings about this. I'm not sure I agree, though I have learned a lot from my freakouts/challenging experiences.

In Psychology, a man named Skinner developed the theory of operant conditioning, basically alot of work involving pidgeons and rats pushing levers to receive positive or negative reinforcement, and this changed their behaviour.

This is correct. There are two types of conditioning - classical and operant. Basically, these processes work on anything with a nervous system, from a bacteria to a genius intellect. What conditioning does is it begins to associate something different than what is normally provoked from a stimulus. The classical example is Pavlov's dog. Pavlov noted that the dog tended to salivate when presented with food. Pavlov paired the stimulus of a bell with presentation of the food. Ring the bell, present the food, confirm salivation. After a number of repititions, the bell itself elicited the salivation response - no food needed to be present to make the dog drool - the dog was conditioned.

Been there/done that. Great. After months of staying away and serious work as well as going a bit "sane-crazy" from leaving the DMT seas and returning to the cultural shores, I am to the point where I only have to pull out 50% of my difficult tripping repetoire to survive a journey without freaking out. The fear no longer has a conscious root. It occurs as the breakthrough approaches. It is Pavlovian and visceral and it can turn heaven into hell in a hot second.

Rather than being a self-limiter to addictive behavior, as you suggest, it is something that is endangering my work entirely with DMT. I waste a lot of time and material when I finally do face it because I cannot face that breakthrough dose. I try not to say never, but I currently feel I will NEVER be able to face a mid-to-high dose level experience of either aya or pharma. I feel this is sad and I brought it upon myself by setting up conditioning via the freakout process.

I personally do NOT believe this is a good way to deal with the reality of potential psychological addiction to a sacramental substance, especially for those of us who are using it for so much more than a buzz and pretty pictures. Those of us who truly receive a medicinal/healing response from the spice. I still struggle daily. I am barely ankle-deep and the Shore of Illness is right there man, right there. I have changed my signature but there are many non-spiced days where I seriously consider going back on psych. meds. If I could just become a semi-regular user again, I suspect I could get back into that state that rides a fine line between insanity/ranting/bliss, the state that causes friends and loved ones (who do not know what I'm up to) to ask what happened to make me so healthy and happy . . .

I have discussed my thoughts on this topic (how much is too much) in different threads. I've also discussed it just this week in relation to my own use patterns with both my husband and The Traveler. I believe that DMT afficionados need to keep a perspective, need to maintain healthy social relations and need to listen closely to the people whom they truly trust, even when those people say things we might not want to hear regarding our relationship with our sacrament.


Also, I've got to say this really rubbed me the wrong way:

how many other members of society regularly inhale vaporised dimethyltryptamine - the most powerful hallucinogenic mollecule known to man on a monthly, weekly or even, daresay, daily basis? exactly, we are not a normal subsection of society.

While everyone is unique, I think DMT should perhaps be used a lot, lot less than most of us actually use it.

There is a big, uppity part of me that lives in 'da 'hood that instantly replies, "You don't know me! How dare you judge me! You don't know my history or what works for me, regardless of what you think you know based on what I've told you! You don't know my culture, history or religion! What makes you feel you have the right to apply the standards of your dominant culture to my behavior!?!"


I don't judge antrocles for daily use, just because I am not capable of it. There is a woman somewhere here who uses aya every night - it is her medicine and she does not skip a day - I do not want her to have a freakout. I do not judge Morphane for abstaining at this time, just because I choose to indulge. . . Each person must find their own muse . . . I would not wish the kinds of freakouts I've had on any one, . . . not Karl Rove, Ann Coulter, Glen Beck, not even the shade of Edward Teller!

Sorry this took so long. Actually, it's just my 2 cents . . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora

 

[MooshyPeaches]

I can't say I have a schedule where I smoke, or a certain amount of time I keep between journeys. However I don't smoke unless I feel the attraction to it. Sometimes (like now) I go quite a few months without smoking, other times ill smoke a few times in a week. I have to agree with shoe that we all must have extreme respect for this powerful piece of technology and not let our human side take over and abuse it.

Edit- Yes I agree as well with that pandora, everyone must have their own limit and KNOW how to recognize it! Even if you can incorporate the revelations of daily journey's into daily life/society perhaps you still shouldn't do it, but than perhaps you should... I guess it completely depends on the person.

 

[Pandora]

Each person must find their own muse . . .

I should have written more in this area - I should have continued it:

and be honest about when they are hearing the call and the true nature of that call . . .


I still would argue that freakouts do not lend clarity to this issue . . .

 

[Shadowlord]

I have rather the opposite problem w/ the Spirit Molecule.
Although pretty well versed in most of the other common psychedelics/psychoactives nothing really prepares you for the launch of DMT. I have had lots of trouble w/ preflight jitters/apprehension but haven't had any negative trips or anything like that. Just something about the Spirit Molecule daunts me and I have to kinda push myself to face my fears to smoke it. SOme of this is fading and from time to time it calls to me, but I am hoping to get to a stage where I am a little more comfortable and use it a bit more. Haven't even had a true breakthrough as of yet although I think I was pretty damn close. Some of the fear and trepidation is leaving as I have been meditating and working on that fear.
Many LSD and Mescaline trips have taught me lots of things but still couldn't prepare for the feel/effects of DMT. Perhaps mushrooms would be good preparation but mushrooms aren't a very good ally for me as I have lots of troubles getting any good results from them.
I have always been amazed and a little envious of those who are able/willing to smoke DMT frequently as, on paper, DMT should be my favorite substance as I always feel like I didn't take enough LSD or Mesc but rarely feel the call strong enough to overcome the inner fear/ reluctance.

 

[shoe]

Hello,

shoe, are you speaking from experience? Or theory? Were you a psychological DMT addict who freaked the fuck out and that got things under control for you?

Wow. I have some feelings about this. I'm not sure I agree, though I have learned a lot from my freakouts/challenging experiences.

In Psychology, a man named Skinner developed the theory of operant conditioning, basically alot of work involving pidgeons and rats pushing levers to receive positive or negative reinforcement, and this changed their behaviour.

This is correct. There are two types of conditioning - classical and operant. Basically, these processes work on anything with a nervous system, from a bacteria to a genius intellect. What conditioning does is it begins to associate something different than what is normally provoked from a stimulus. The classical example is Pavlov's dog. Pavlov noted that the dog tended to salivate when presented with food. Pavlov paired the stimulus of a bell with presentation of the food. Ring the bell, present the food, confirm salivation. After a number of repititions, the bell itself elicited the salivation response - no food needed to be present to make the dog drool - the dog was conditioned.

a bacteria doesn't have a nervous system as such, although there are reactive proteins and cell signalling hormones/intra-cellular transmitters, regardless psychological principles definately do not apply to single-celled organisms; which run at a biomechanical level, transcribing genes in a mechanical fashion to stimuli. However, It is incredibly advanced technology, far beyond anything humans have engineered, and I am truely humbled by the efficiency of the chemistry of life.

Rather than being a self-limiter to addictive behavior, as you suggest, it is something that is endangering my work entirely with DMT. I waste a lot of time and material when I finally do face it because I cannot face that breakthrough dose. I try not to say never, but I currently feel I will NEVER be able to face a mid-to-high dose level experience of either aya or pharma. I feel this is sad and I brought it upon myself by setting up conditioning via the freakout process.

I personally do NOT believe this is a good way to deal with the reality of potential psychological addiction to a sacramental substance, especially for those of us who are using it for so much more than a buzz and pretty pictures. Those of us who truly receive a medicinal/healing response from the spice. I still struggle daily. I am barely ankle-deep and the Shore of Illness is right there man, right there. I have changed my signature but there are many non-spiced days where I seriously consider going back on psych. meds. If I could just become a semi-regular user again, I suspect I could get back into that state that rides a fine line between insanity/ranting/bliss, the state that causes friends and loved ones (who do not know what I'm up to) to ask what happened to make me so healthy and happy . . .

I have discussed my thoughts on this topic (how much is too much) in different threads. I've also discussed it just this week in relation to my own use patterns with both my husband and The Traveler. I believe that DMT afficionados need to keep a perspective, need to maintain healthy social relations and need to listen closely to the people whom they truly trust, even when those people say things we might not want to hear regarding our relationship with our sacrament.


Also, I've got to say this really rubbed me the wrong way:

how many other members of society regularly inhale vaporised dimethyltryptamine - the most powerful hallucinogenic mollecule known to man on a monthly, weekly or even, daresay, daily basis? exactly, we are not a normal subsection of society.

While everyone is unique, I think DMT should perhaps be used a lot, lot less than most of us actually use it.

There is a big, uppity part of me that lives in 'da 'hood that instantly replies, "You don't know me! How dare you judge me! You don't know my history or what works for me, regardless of what you think you know based on what I've told you! You don't know my culture, history or religion! What makes you feel you have the right to apply the standards of your dominant culture to my behavior!?!"

Good, At least you're thinking about it. My post has done its job. let me just point out that im not judging anyone (I deliberately try not to, because 'judge not lest you yourself be judged.' ) I'm just stating a fact.

I don't judge antrocles for daily use, just because I am not capable of it. There is a woman somewhere here who uses aya every night - it is her medicine and she does not skip a day - I do not want her to have a freakout. I do not judge Morphane for abstaining at this time, just because I choose to indulge. . . Each person must find their own muse . . . I would not wish the kinds of freakouts I've had on any one, . . . not Karl Rove, Ann Coulter, Glen Beck, not even the shade of Edward Teller!

And neither do I. I am glad that i've pointed out the value of a negative experience, however.

 

[shoe]

I can't say I have a schedule where I smoke, or a certain amount of time I keep between journeys. However I don't smoke unless I feel the attraction to it. Sometimes (like now) I go quite a few months without smoking, other times ill smoke a few times in a week. I have to agree with shoe that we all must have extreme respect for this powerful piece of technology and not let our human side take over and abuse it.

Edit- Yes I agree as well with that pandora, everyone must have their own limit and KNOW how to recognize it! Even if you can incorporate the revelations of daily journey's into daily life/society perhaps you still shouldn't do it, but than perhaps you should... I guess it completely depends on the person.

Same here, I go months without using it sometimes. I feel that its a good thing, because when you return to the spirit molecule you are ready to absorb all the teachings and really have some real life things to work through with it. substance!

However, There is nothing to fear but fear itself. It all depends how you want to do it. Much respect to people who do use it daily. They seem to be happy, and stable with it. DMT is inherently non-toxic and safe on the body. Its spiritual well-being I am concerned with. Some people when being spiritual, persuing a spiritual path, can forget that material wealth is important too, since that is also a valid aspect of your existance; you are surrounded by your environment and so you should strive to make it as wholesome, fufilling and wonderful as possible.

Love and light everyone, Peace and understanding.

 

[joebono]

My use of molecule is done weekly. I rarely smoke it, and every Saturday for the past year and a half I trip. It is mostly pharmahuasca, but occasionally shrooms or cactus. The trips are intense experiences where philosophical wisdom and timeless knowledge is downloaded into my head. Each trip leaves me with some new ideas that I write about, think about, or research to develop further. I spend a great deal of time reading philosophy, sociology, psychology, etc and psychedelics take the ideas in those disciplines and literally infuse them with depth and full meaning. I don't read while tripping, I just let the ideas marinating in my head become electrified.

Lately my trips have taken a new hyper euphoric character where I become omniscient and a hedonistic type deity. Habit forming? I couldn't imagine any other reaction to such an experience and it's a good thing my schedule limits me to Saturday trips. If I was independently wealthy and had no job, I'd be do tripping much more, I think. My deep skepticism of religious or mystical experience keeps me from fully accepting the trip's spiritual character and I am always torn in pieces as I try to make some objective sense of it. I plan on a few weeks off from psychedelics but that damn cactus powder is calling my name!

 

[aetherbound]

I understand what Shoe is saying as I am one of those people with an addictive personality and have had a problem substituting on substance for another. Albeit I have always been a functioning addict, paying the bills , raising my children mostly by myself etc, you get the picture...This molecule without a doubt helped me quit the destructive behavior pattern that was my life...To begin with it was so astounding that I was compelled to smoke almost daily until I got bitchslapped by said molecule...I quickly learned that it demanded much more respect than I was giving it...Now there are some days I am ready, think about it several times during the day, come home and when the time is right I realize that I might be ready but they are not ready for me and I respect that...It is TRULY a calling and I believe the most powerful MEDICINE on the face of the planet...Usually a freakout is involved when FEAR enters into the equation with a helping hand from DOUBT...lol...I remember standing in my room thinking I had ruined my brain and tried to figure out how to survive in this world when everything was alive, breathing and made out of stained glass...and Joebono don't feel alone with the god complex as I have had the same experience...I felt everything and everyone in my life was placed there by me like actors in my personal play...it was time for a break...Sorry if I went on too long and I hope everyone remembers to just respect it properly

Heal, Protect and Enlighten

Aetherbound

 

[cellux]

My deep skepticism of religious or mystical experience keeps me from fully accepting the trip's spiritual character and I am always torn in pieces as I try to make some objective sense of it.

I found nothing in the psychedelic literature that would make this holding back - attempts "to make some objective sense of it" - appear in a positive light. Usually this is just labeled as ego defense, and we are advised to let go.

But I came to think there might be some validity to such an attitude. If you want to connect the two worlds, to bring over as much as possible from there to here (provided it's possible and a good thing to do - questions still unanswered), then holding back with the left-side of your brain, while letting the right-side fly as high as it can seems to be a good - albeit quite stressful - way of building that bridge.

 

[dtabbler]

A "freakout" on dmt can be the most intensely scary thing in you're entire life. I promise. I feel there are some people that couldn't handle such a thing, I nearly couldn't and I like to consider myself pretty capable of handling ANYTHING.

It went something like a heartrate of 10,000 bpm and 10,000,000 different thoughts going through your head about how you're going to die. And not just the "ego death" that we're all used to from leaving your body, its a physical, mental, and psychological concern when you "freakout"

BUT, yes it has the potential to be beneficial. I was smoking substantial amounts of our good friend on a MULTIPLE times a day basis. I would go into hyperspace repeatedly and as soon as I arrived back in my chair I would smoke some more. Going through 8-10 trips a day.

I am now uncomfortable with the spirit molecule unless I am with friends who are familiar or who are doing it as well.

my nerves prevent me from using it alone anymore. I experienced more of hyperspace than I think was needed in my life improvements and now have been told by the entities not to come back until I'm certain that I'm ready. I get those preflight jitters that make me incapable of smoking because I can't even hold my pipe. The worst is once when I told myself to push past that and take a big dose, ended up in about an hour of shock like feelings after a trip that seemed to last a lifetime.

DMT can give you joy and happiness beyond comprehension, but it will also put you in your place like a god burning an ant with his magnifying glass. So be cautious of this "everyone should have a bad trip" state of mind. I don't want any of our friends calling 9-1-.... because they took the advice of someone who does not know their capacities.

peace and love friends.

 

[shoe]

dtabbler: I think you need to work on some healing with the spirit molecule. I hope you're o.k. Sounds like a story of incredible abuse, spicing up all day every day? I've been in a simmilar state and that is when I had some truly incredible experiences. (meeting the greys, 18 fingered forays, etc.) DMT usually always is incredible. Sometimes its out of this world, but mostly its incredible. the side-effects are ones to watch. Sometimes It can leave you feeling cagey and anxious. Pre-flight anxiety being the big one, but also social anxiety too..

shoe, are you speaking from experience? Or theory? Were you a psychological DMT addict who freaked the fuck out and that got things under control for you?

Actually, I'm not. It'd be more toward theory, Yeah. Do you believe life is in a perfect balance?

 

[dtabbler]

shoe: currently i'm taking a break from nearly ALL substances, (with the exception of the OCCASIONAL drink) but dmt led me to look into the reasoning i have for WHY am i doing what i'm doing? my life currently is going in a great direction! The other night however when some close friends were over we burned a touch of spice and i felt very very comfortable with it. maybe sometime in a few weeks or so i'll be ready again and i'll be happily welcomed back into the other world. until then i'm doing better than ever and i have the spice to thank for that!

 

[shoe]

Im glad to hear it, Dtabbler! The sacrment can show us many, many things. Although the molecule is advanced indeed,
the real incredible technology, is in the power of the mind.

lately I have put a huge personal emphasis on living a good life, so Its great to hear that yours is also improving.
that downward spiral, with the right techniques and a little willpower, can easilly be turned into an upward ascent!!

After all, whats the point in living a joyless existance? Exactly!

Life is supposed to be good. Find joy in it, Enjoy the little things. Be greatful for what you have, and at the same time, focus on what you want! Do whatever you can to generate that sense of inner happiness, That inner feeling of joy, and pretty soon things will turn right around, and you'll find yourself owning that new coat, having the money you needed, getting the attention you deserve, etc. anything you can think of. Infact, as I have discovered, major things can happen within the even the space of a day!!!

see below: Here guys, this will help you with your life :) - Philosophy - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[El Ka Bong]

Dmt is poly-strippa for the ego ... dmt is an ego-waxing ! Dmt is a rocket ride into hyperspace for the ego !

I'm lucky - to be one of the folks who has figured out a 'formula' for riding out that fear .. ! Make it help you get 'levitated' - fear is the 'ignition' spark in the rocket engine ! Without fear, things might not fire right ... it helps us 'aim' the intention towards a Universal revelation .. 'Aim' the ego into the posture it needs to to let go - fear is like a 'padding' in all that ego-molly-coddling I do before launching...

Just to relate my need and usage - every 4 months I HAVE to go again. And lately it's been about every 4 weeks. I have had progressively deeper experiences each time ... the same sequence during launch - buzzing, colours, open into the playpen, then the walls dissolve into hyperspace... and then the 'breakthrough-lesson' ... Little child-like entities and big adults, are there.

Last weekend I returned to the same place - I was expected ... greeted, I got another lesson in hyperspace-toy-making ... and then I was ushered away, into the folded-back reality we have here ... And was told to come again by the most familiar little-girl-child entity.

But before that I writhed in fear .. My freinds thought I was a gooof ! Just laugh with the fear, and at how silly it makes us look ! .. I have a blanket handy, and set up a 'womb' to retreat to if needed ... Unplugging the phone and other de-egotizing rituals help ...

Having a loved one near to laugh at my conniptions and fidgiting, and to watch me during the trip helps too ... I feel forgiven for having an ego ... like having a loved one watch me lubricates the fear-ball in me .. I can face the ego-waxing that is about to occur ..> !

Forgive our Human-ness and it's limitedness in apprehending the spirit/non-physical Universe ... Those entities sure forgive us for being so incarnated ... and they LOVE us !

And in doing so, like learning to laugh at the thrill of starting a roller coaster ride, I have found every trip worth while, AND there has developed a progression - I get a lesson from toy-handling entities, virtually every launch (since late 2009).

... charge up on any unquelled fear - the 1000 butterflies in my gut all flap away and dissolve as soon as the 'playpen' stage is upon me.

I am thrilled to expect entity contact now ! That relaxes me somewhat. But I have had many White-light experiences ... the trip that is suddenly one-with-god, an anihilation of the ego .. but after a few months, I still want to go again. Those are the most "Freak out" experiences. I'm not sure if dose or extract quality makes the White-light happen.