From DMT to ayahuasca? The next logical step?

[Ram Dazz]

Friends,

could you help me with the quesition:
* After using DMT, is ayahuasca the next logical step?

I ask because the DMT journey is too short. I have currently good experiences to use DMT together with
Harmala Freebase, but it is also too much information I get in a too short time.

Also the drawbacks of ayahuasca like vomiting and diarrhea are a big obstacle for me.
On the other hand I believe that I'm ready for the next step (if it is possible to know it), because I
lost my fear (but still have a deep respect). I have the strong impression that DMT want to show me something...
(please don't take the words to literally)


Last question:
* Is pharmahuasca better?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...and maybe I'm too impatient.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I say go for it, Aya is my favorite thing, much better than vaped DMT/Changa. The nausea/vomiting/diarrhea may be undesirable side-effects (for me anyways), but i don't mind it, plus if you work with/consume the Harmalas regularly the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea goes away as the Harmala reverse tolerance builds up. But those side-effects really aren't that bad, so i don't see why people try to avoid it so much, if you want the full package, gotta deal with some undesirable side-effects, or build up the Harmala reverse tolerance and you won't have to.

As for Pharma, it's good too ime, but i much prefer the full spectrum plants, so i say go for the plants or full spectrum plant extracts rather than isolated compounds.

 

[strtman]

Ayahuasca is not a ‘logical’ step after smoking DMT. Why not the other way around? One should try both.

I think ayahuasca gives more, it is a different experience. It goes deeper and slower, lasts longer, most important, you can remember it so much better. And in my opinion when doing an ayahuasca ceremony the setting is very important. More than when you smoke the stuff. So if at home you do not have the right setting I advise you to book a ceremony in a resort. It is also a nice thing to do in a group of like minded people.

The vomiting is an essential part of ayahuasca. It is the physical cleaning of the body that comes with the spiritual cleaning. Believe me, after the vomiting you feel relieved.

 

[syberdelic]

I would say that yes, for some of us Ayahuasca is the next logical step after DMT. It is an elongated DMT trip, but with the added flavor of harmalas.

I would also add that set and setting for Ayahuasca is a very personal thing. The tourist in Peru setting seems to work great for many but was complete FUBAR for me. This would include much of the "traditional" elements such as Icaros and reddish brown sludge. I cannot recommend it.

I do find pharmahuasca to be better in that it's cleaner and easier to ingest. But it does still come with much of the nausea, vertigo, and purge. Another place that I fall outside the bell curve is that I find no function to these elements that to me are nothing more than sickness. As most loose the nausea after the purge, I do not. It fades only as the trip does.

 

[pitubo]

It's a small step, and a giant leap.

Clearly, ayahuasca is much more than an elongated dmt trip. It may appear somewhat like that when underdosing on the harmala part and overdosing on the dmt part. Consider that in the amazon jungle, the harmala part is the mainstay of the potion and that the dmt part is not even always present.

The vomiting is an essential part of ayahuasca. It is the physical cleaning of the body that comes with the spiritual cleaning. Believe me, after the vomiting you feel relieved.

You're free to consider vomiting an essential part of your ayahuasca. Everyone is free to cherish their own quasi religious fancies. Believe me, I feel relieved when I scratch an itch. That doesn't make the itch or the scratching "spiritual".

 

[Ram Dazz]

Thanks for the many postings.

South America is too far away...why not doing it at home...alone?

Stupid question..."has it familiarities with LSD? (Duration, Feelings etc.)?"
I ask because nausea is a "no go", I would fight the hole night and with LSD there it is no such thing like vomiting.


I remember there is also a Church in US where they drink aya? Without vomiting?
But I forget the name.

cu

 

[Jees]

... That doesn't make the itch or the scratching "spiritual".

Yes, but it is imho up to the individual to make anything for that matter as spiritual, or not, or semi.
The TAO of rue extraction? Maybe the itch was the hand of god, if you want.

* * *

...I remember there is also a Church in US where they drink aya? Without vomiting?

Aya is very straight forward an emetic, so what do you remember please?
Excerpt:

...People definitely purge at Santo Daime meetings...
...There's definitely vomiting in Santo Daime...
...I had also some drink session with Daime, and I saw different type of brew and the first one, yellow type of brew was very purging for me and lot of other people...

It is possible that it doesn't happen to a person given brew content and/or (temporal) personal physiology, but this certainly does not make it the general average.

I had a good laugh at #8 who claims its all in the head, that aya is no physiologic emetic at all:

...I've never seen or heard of it happening at independant ceremonys...

At those 'ceremonys', probably nobody had a head, so nothing to mess with :lol:

 

[syberdelic]

You're free to consider vomiting an essential part of your ayahuasca. Everyone is free to cherish their own quasi religious fancies. Believe me, I feel relieved when I scratch an itch. That doesn't make the itch or the scratching "spiritual".

Yea, Other than some sort of catharsis, I really don't understand the cherishing of the physical distress from Aya/pharmahuasca. I get plenty of catharsis from the experience without feeling sick. When I feel sick, I mark time until I'm not.

 

[Ram Dazz]

... That doesn't make the itch or the scratching "spiritual".

Yes, but it is imho up to the individual to make anything for that matter as spiritual, or not, or semi.
The TAO of rue extraction? Maybe the itch was the hand of god, if you want.

* * *

...I remember there is also a Church in US where they drink aya? Without vomiting?

Aya is very straight forward an emetic, so what do you remember please?
Excerpt:

...People definitely purge at Santo Daime meetings...
...There's definitely vomiting in Santo Daime...
...I had also some drink session with Daime, and I saw different type of brew and the first one, yellow type of brew was very purging for me and lot of other people...

It is possible that it doesn't happen to a person given brew content and/or (temporal) personal physiology, but this certainly does not make it the general average.

I had a good laugh at #8 who claims its all in the head, that aya is no physiologic emetic at all:

...I've never seen or heard of it happening at independant ceremonys...

At those 'ceremonys', probably nobody had a head, so nothing to mess with :lol:

Thanks Jees, and yes it is Santo Daime (I'm looking for). Anyone mentioned that they have a different aya and no purge would happened.
Now I also believe that is not 100% true/possible.

 

[syberdelic]

My experimentation begins at the end of this month. If there is a formula for nausea free x-huasca, I will find it and I will share my data. I have taken the last seven months off but I'm about ready to dive in for science.

As ShamansStamen has stated in other threads, moclomebide can be used as the MAOI to avoid the nausea. I may end up experimenting with this, but I want to test out harmalas first. And I'm not sure if this is because of the absence of harmalas or because of moclomebide's 5-HT3 antagonist properties.

It will not be enough for me to say, "this works". I have to know why it works or at least have a working theory.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Moclobemide doesn't antagonize 5-HT3, Zofran does though. Moclobemide is just a reversible MAO-A inhibitor.

 

[Ram Dazz]

My experimentation begins at the end of this month. If there is a formula for nausea free x-huasca, I will find it and I will share my data. I have taken the last seven months off but I'm about ready to dive in for science.

As ShamansStamen has stated in other threads, moclomebide can be used as the MAOI to avoid the nausea. I may end up experimenting with this, but I want to test out harmalas first. And I'm not sure if this is because of the absence of harmalas or because of moclomebide's 5-HT3 antagonist properties.

It will not be enough for me to say, "this works". I have to know why it works or at least have a working theory.

...very interesting. "nausea free" would be my favorite.

BTW, what exactly is responsible for the nausea?

 

[Sabnock1990]

BTW, what exactly is responsible for the nausea?

It's the Harmalas. Some say it's the DMT but based on my experimentation and observation, it's definitely the Harmalas. Tannins and plant gunk can contribute to nausea, but ultimately it's the Harmalas that cause the nausea/vomiting.

 

[Final Incarnate]

throw away logic its broken have faith in yourself .

 

[lysurgeon]

I've gotten nausea from Harmala seeds. I've taken seeds alone more times than with DMT, and some times with DMT I've had hours between taking harmala seeds and DMT, and in my experience it is the DMT which brings the nausea. My harmala experiences have had occasional stomach discomfort, mild nausea. In overdose, harmalas cause hellish nausea but in normal doses, it's just a very nice mellow calming thoughtful plant experience.

My least nausea during ayahuasca session was with ginger. Brew the DMT plant with copious amounts of ginger and it seems to eliminate it for me.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I've tried the Ginger before a few times but ime it just made the experience very weird, uncomfortable and chaotic, but i think i may have used too much Ginger, it certainly had a weird reaction/effect that's for sure, perhaps less than i used would be better.

As for the DMT causing you the nausea and such, i know what you're talking about when you say you think it's the DMT because it doesn't happen until the DMT is consumed, but ime/imo there seems to be something directly related to the Harmalas, that when DMT is consumed it causes the Harmala purge.

Even if the Harmalas are consumed in a more moderate dosage and you don't get any nausea or vomiting when they're taken alone, ime and in my perspective/understanding of Harmalas/Rue, the Harmala's purgative effects can still happen when the DMT is consumed. It's much like how Harmalas on their own, even in higher dosages (especially with the reverse tolerance built up), can be relatively alright but when the DMT is consumed you can tell, or at least i can, that the Harmala's effects comes out a lot more and you can judge better how much Harmalas/Rue you've taken because it's effects come out more with DMT in the mix.

I've taken larger dosages of Harmalas/Rue with and without the reverse tolerance built up and the effects were present, but when i mixed DMT or 4-ACO-DMT with that same dosage, i could definitely notice how strong the Harmala/Rue dosage was compared to Harmalas/Rue on it's own, because the Harmalas effects were brought out a lot more, so the same applies to the nausea/vomiting imo/ime, with the DMT in the mix, the Harmala's effects seem to get brought out more/amplified and are much more noticeable compared to Harmalas alone.

The answers we seek are with the Harmalas, understand the Harmalas, and you will understand their effects and side-effects.