Fruitarian or vegan?

[obliguhl]

bloating/initial weight gain (it should be mostly/only water)

I would think its fat due to lipogenesis on your carb only diet.

much more energy and endurance when I run outside, I'm more active, less tired, generally more "springy" Very happy

Have also experienced this during my fruit days. Probably a mix of sugar rush + not eating crap anymore.

fruits can cause cravings (of more fruits, at least for me Very happy )

Sugar addiction.

I've learned that the less different kinds of food I eat the easier it is for my body. The less negative effects like bloating/gas

There is probably something wrong with your gut microbiome, if you can only digest a certain type of fiber without bloating...

I'm adding potatoes to my diet! Potatoes are rich in iron

Also rich in carbs, so it should fit your carb only diet.

I'm removing oats from my diet. I don't feel so great about eating grains!

Removed the only complex slowly digesting carb from your diet. More fruits, more insulin spikes ahead, i guess?

I'm experimenting to see how my body reacts to different things initially. I think if I listen to my body even before it's adjusted to a new thing it can tell me some things that help me plan my diet better.

So you are trusting an already defective instrument to tell you what's right? I would assume you've damaged your body already through your previous crappy diet.

What about fats? Fat is an essential macronutrient. Carbohydrates are NOT. You are running on them almost exclusively at the moment. The good thing is that you started to eat real food...

 

[amandanita]

bloating/initial weight gain (it should be mostly/only water)

I would think its fat due to lipogenesis on your carb only diet.

I doubt it's permanent extra weight/fat given I consistently eat as many calories or less calories than I burn (I'm not trying to lose weight but some days it can be hard to get enough calories. If i overeat I overeat on cucumber, tomato or watermelon. I don't get too many calories For the most part I get enough.

fruits can cause cravings (of more fruits, at least for me Very happy )

Sugar addiction.

Yes I'm documenting both the good and bad here!

I've learned that the less different kinds of food I eat the easier it is for my body. The less negative effects like bloating/gas

There is probably something wrong with your gut microbiome, if you can only digest a certain type of fiber without bloating...

I feel better eating only one type of food (fruit, vegetable, legume, it doesn't matter) per meal than eating a meal consisting of several different types of foods mixed. Not just now, this has been true for me forever. Now I'm just applying it to my diet. There is no evidence of mixing foods in a meal being healthier. None. There is plenty of evidence of mixing foods leading to negative outcomes: vegetables resting on fats/nuts/meat that take hours to digest, causing fermentation, increased acidity of the stomach contents and gas for example.

So you are trusting an already defective instrument to tell you what's right? I would assume you've damaged your body already through your previous crappy diet.

What about fats? Fat is an essential macronutrient. Carbohydrates are NOT. You are running on them almost exclusively at the moment. The good thing is that you started to eat real food...

I'm not trusting it without question, I'm listening to it. Please follow your logic to the end: if my body is already damaged, that means that it and its needs and its ability to digest and fix the damage are very different from what you could expect based on the assumption that it behaves like a normal/average body. In that sense, there's no guarantee that listening to my body leads to worse results than listening to, for example, you.

A body takes time to adjust. I take time to adjust and see how I feel as well. I don't trust anyone to have the perfect magic diet that I can instantly switch to. I'm taking my time to experiment Though obvious from my previous post, please let me reiterate: I'm still in the process of adjusting my diet. I haven't settled on anything yet.

It seems like you're taking this personally? Some of your comments ("it should fit your carb only diet") seem derisive. If you're feeling upset, please take a step back.

I don't know where I will end up with my diet. Maybe I will end up eating nuts and legumes to get my fats. I doubt I'll get there any faster by being told everything about my diet is wrong!

Be well

Ps. I've been reading positive and negative writings about vegan, raw vegan and fruitarian diets and the problems some diets can cause (like sugar addiction and dental problems). I'm actually moving away from imported fruits and I'm not going to eat so much (sweet) fruit. I don't think I'm blindly believing in anything, I'm trying to listen to my body and use unbiased information about nutrition to end up with a relatively healthy diet in the end.

 

[Sky Motion]

I can't eat 2000 calories though, I would blow up like a balloon! :lol:

I gain weight on 2000 calories a day. I don't know how big/active you think I am, but either way your assumption is wrong. 2000 calories is not the correct amount for me There is no magic number that fits everyone, it depends on your gender, height, weight, muscle mass, level of activity and so on.

Another reason to eat fruits and berries is so that I don't have to pay attention to every calorie I eat. Maybe that will lead to a healthier way of eating overall. I hope

Sorry but I don't think you've ever truly tracked your calories before, unless you are a 5 foot girl that weighs 110 you're not going to "blow up" on 2000 a day.

 

[obliguhl]

If you're feeling upset, please take a step back.

Fair enough. I'm a bit disillusioned myself by fruitarianism and since i've learned about the relation between insulin, carbs and fat , im a bit more sceptical when it comes to extreme carb consumption. It's such a typical pattern in our culture.

I still love fruit of course and everything started with fruit for me. I apologize for being grumpy. You're on a good way to better health if you keep experimenting to find whats best for you AT THE MOMENT. Its hard for me to accept that dietary needs are different from person to person and that certain circumstances such as diet history, time commitment etc have to be taken under consideration as well.

Counting calories isn't everything. Why would people gain weight while using certain antidepressive pharmaceuticals for instance? Why are antibiotics used to make animal big and fat? What you eat plays a role as well because the hormonal aspect of weight loss/gain is huge. Also, the gut microbiome seems to play an integral part in how the body responds to certain nutrition.

Cutting out all the crap food and switching to fruits and vegetable is a huge and brave step. I'm also vey much enjoying your untethered enthusiasm and can only wish you all the best

 

[amandanita]

Sorry but I don't think you've ever truly tracked your calories before, unless you are a 5 foot girl that weighs 110 you're not going to "blow up" on 2000 a day.

The smartest thing about that sentence was the "unless".


Thank you! I really feel good about it. I found the "fruits only" approach great at first but I started looking into it and also thinking about eating imported fruits instead of local fruits and I don't think it's the best way to go. Strangely it was just easier for me to start by switching to a fruitarian diet than a "balanced, mixed vegan diet." Easier for me personally.

It's good to remember that all studies you'll ever read are based on an average and there will always be people who fall outside those parameters. Genetics and environmental factors both play a role. Whether it's hard to believe or not it's true.

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm excited to see where this goes!

 

[DiMoiTou]

Here's my opinion on the subject (as an omnivorous :roll: ).

I think what you call 'mono days' is a bad idea. Variety is important. Excess of anything is bad, that's kind of a universal rule.
Also, the brain is the organ that consumes the most energy, it's not just about how much sport you practice. So if you reduce your energy intake, your brain will suffer from that. If your brain can't function properly, how will you then be able to realize if you are doing something wrong? You need an external view on things, you shouldn't just listen to your own body.

Regarding your digestive issues, it's not just about what you eat, how you eat is just as important.

Hope all of that makes sense to you.
Good luck on your quest for health.

PS: have you tried black radish sprouts? Boy, this is strong-tasting! :shock:

 

[amandanita]

Here's my opinion on the subject (as an omnivorous :roll: ).

I think what you call 'mono days' is a bad idea. Variety is important. Excess of anything is bad, that's kind of a universal rule.
Also, the brain is the organ that consumes the most energy, it's not just about how much sport you practice. So if you reduce your energy intake, your brain will suffer from that. If your brain can't function properly, how will you then be able to realize if you are doing something wrong? You need an external view on things, you shouldn't just listen to your own body.

Regarding your digestive issues, it's not just about what you eat, how you eat is just as important.

Hope all of that makes sense to you.
Good luck on your quest for health.

PS: have you tried black radish sprouts? Boy, this is strong-tasting! :shock:

Variety is important but not on a daily basis. There's no evidence of that!
There's a reason your body stores things for days... Or more. Your brain doesn't need as many calories as people think (and it doesn't need them all from food.)

The brain itself consumes about 18% of the basal metabolic rate: on a total intake of 1800 kcal/day, this equates to 324 kcal, or about 80 g of glucose. About 25% of total body glucose consumption occurs in the brain.

Yes, how I eat. Part of that is not overloading my body with too many different things at once. It's going to get all those things. Just not at the same time

Thank you for your wishes. I'm not just listening to my body, I am listening to you and everyone who contributes. I'm considering everything people tell me!

I haven't! Are they good? I like radishes

 

[Synkromystic]

I have been on a vegan lifestyle for 3 1/2 years...I Have been on a raw vegan lifestyle for just over a year. I feel better than ever now.

I do supplement with pure amino acids for extra protein. While some people can be a fruitarian or raw vegan with little to no added protein, I can't. I was very unhealthy for many many years before I went vegetarian, then to vegan. Then when I went vegan I started to get much worse...I was overeating, and wasn't getting enough protein, among numerous other problems! Once I started to correct the protein deficiency through Raw rice powder protein, I started to get much better. Then I moved onto pure amino acids to help with digestion.

Most of the time I am a very active person, and still recovering from years of unhealthy eating habits (probably about 15), so I do have a ways to go before I'm fully healthy, but I'm getting there. I try to get around 100-150 grams of protein most days. I have tried many lifestyles, and my ''modified'' raw vegan diet is my favorite so far. I highly suggest people research and experiment with what works best for them, because what works for some, will destroy someone else

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I try to get around 100-150 grams of protein most days.

Not bad! I don't know how to finance that vegan style... Single AAs are very expensive compared to whey powder, so I go for 70-120 gr per day (mostly via eggs and whey powder) depending on the personal work load. Being a 98% proof vegetarian, I can't imagine getting 70-120 gr of protein per day via meat either. I'd die in a single week due to heart failure.

Lean beef protein content per 100g: 36g - that's min. 200gs of beef per day for the min. protein intake. Double that for a hard work day and your in 400gs region. Who eats that without constipation, some mess in the slaughterhouse and an empty wallet?

Source: The 10 Sources of Protein Every Man Needs

PS: Yes I've tried rice and hemp protein... tastes to me like cardboard, can't do that.

 

[SHroomtroll]

Its hard to debate this topic without hurting some feelings.
However there is nothing positive with a fruitarian diet.
We need all kinds of nutrients, both macro (protein,fats, carbs) along with micros (vitamins, minerals etc)
Just eating fruits is not gonna give us that.
It will however cause muscle atrophy from protein defiency along with all kinds of organ issues.
diabetes from only eating fructose as your main fuel.
And the lack of a balanced fatty acid profile can just destroy your hormone profile.
I could go on but i think my point is made.


There just isnt any scientific base for eating like this, its straight up stupid and dangerous!
The only people promoting this are delusional cultish types who has some agenda to promote this crap.
Usually books or some other product.


Now veganism can be pulled off if one is very consious about their diet and really knows what they are doing.
However most people who practise veganism ime are not that bright.
They are usually just people who dont want to support the meat industry and have chosen to let their own health suffer instead of the animals.

Yeah i sound harsh and i apoligise if i hurt someones feeling or beliefs, but ive been in the fitness industry long enough to see the damage these kind of unbalanced diets can have on peoples health.
And it aint pretty.

 

[DiMoiTou]

Your brain doesn't need as many calories as people think (and it doesn't need them all from food.)

I would guess most people actually don't know that the brain needs more calories than the other organs...calories and also specific micro-nutrients, I assume.
I for one don't know how long our nutrients can be stored, what our brain specifically needs on a daily basis...do you?
And where would the brain get its energy if not from food intake? One can drive on an empty tank only for a very limited time.

If you do these "mono days", how many days of this diet do you need to collect the full array of nutrients needed by the body to function properly?
Doing such protocols without a well-established plan seems a bit risky or at least unhealthy...not really in agreement with trying to eat more healthily.

I would recommend seeking help from a professional (dietitian).

Yes, how I eat. Part of that is not overloading my body with too many different things at once. It's going to get all those things. Just not at the same time

I was more thinking about the order in which you eat your food, how long you masticate, the delay between each meal, etc.
People have been mixing food for quite some time now, I hope someone would have figured it out if it was bad for digestion.

I haven't! Are they good? I like radishes

So strong on the tastebuds :surprised Very good aside from that!

 

[Orion]

Yeah i sound harsh and i apoligise if i hurt someones feeling or beliefs, but ive been in the fitness industry long enough to see the damage these kind of unbalanced diets can have on peoples health.
And it aint pretty.

Make no apologies for speaking rationally my friend! *!JOKE ALERT!* Some people just need to be slapped across the kisser with a 20 oz ribeye. They'll seek offence no matter what. */!JOKE!*

I should add that I'm not of the opinion that it will be the same for everyone, or that I think that's what you meant either. This does tie in with what I was trying to say though. I have to clarify that or I will face harsh criticism for not being in complete agreement.

The middle road isn't sexy or cool, and if you walk down it you will be ridiculed from both sides. But that's with everything, not just diet.

 

[inaniel]

Its hard to debate this topic without hurting some feelings.
However there is nothing positive with a fruitarian diet.
We need all kinds of nutrients, both macro (protein,fats, carbs) along with micros (vitamins, minerals etc)
Just eating fruits is not gonna give us that.
It will however cause muscle atrophy from protein defiency along with all kinds of organ issues.
diabetes from only eating fructose as your main fuel.
And the lack of a balanced fatty acid profile can just destroy your hormone profile.
I could go on but i think my point is made.


There just isnt any scientific base for eating like this, its straight up stupid and dangerous!
The only people promoting this are delusional cultish types who has some agenda to promote this crap.
Usually books or some other product.

if you're going to bring up science, could you post some studies on long term raw vegans to verify your claims?

However most people who practise veganism ime are not that bright.

i highly doubt such an unintelligent comment would hurt anyones feelings.

Yeah i sound harsh and i apoligise if i hurt someones feeling or beliefs, but ive been in the fitness industry long enough to see the damage these kind of unbalanced diets can have on peoples health.
And it aint pretty.

Walk around any major city in the united states and notice how many over weight to obese people there are and how many of them eat meat. see how easy it is to make a generalized correlation that might not exist?

 

[Synkromystic]

I try to get around 100-150 grams of protein most days.

Not bad! I don't know how to finance that vegan style... Single AAs are very expensive compared to whey powder

I only spend about $500 per month on all food and supplements.....And I'm taking a lot of supplments...Magnesium Bisglycinate, Calcium Glycinate, Potassium Gluconate, MSM (sulfur compound), Multivitamins, Glutamine, plus all the amino acids.. I'm trying to re mineralize my body, and wow does it feel good

I do prepare all my food though. I never eat out. That's how I can keep costs so low. If one starts juicing, that's when it starts to get really expensive.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I only spend about $500 per month on all food and supplements.....And I'm taking a lot of supplments...Magnesium Bisglycinate, Calcium Glycinate, Potassium Gluconate, MSM (sulfur compound), Multivitamins, Glutamine, plus all the amino acids.. I'm trying to re mineralize my body, and wow does it feel good

I do prepare all my food though. I never eat out. That's how I can keep costs so low. If one starts juicing, that's when it starts to get really expensive.

Lol, with that budget I'd probably do the same. But I only can or want to (no sure here) spend ~180€ for food per month. Supplements and whey powder included. The only change I've made recently is to up my protein and lower my sugar intake. Mostly aspartame :twisted: or stevia sweetened drinks now lol.

If I want to reach your level, I'd need to work more. More work, more supplements for regeneration needed. Kind of a viscous circle. I will meditate on this.

 

[amandanita]

Your brain doesn't need as many calories as people think (and it doesn't need them all from food.)

I would guess most people actually don't know that the brain needs more calories than the other organs...calories and also specific micro-nutrients, I assume.
I for one don't know how long our nutrients can be stored, what our brain specifically needs on a daily basis...do you?
And where would the brain get its energy if not from food intake? One can drive on an empty tank only for a very limited time.

If you do these "mono days", how many days of this diet do you need to collect the full array of nutrients needed by the body to function properly?
Doing such protocols without a well-established plan seems a bit risky or at least unhealthy...not really in agreement with trying to eat more healthily.
I would recommend seeking help from a professional (dietitian).

I think I do The brain can use other fuels besides d-glucose, mainly ketone bodies. Look up ketone bodies and how the brain uses energy in different metabolic states. You might be surprised!

Yes, how I eat. Part of that is not overloading my body with too many different things at once. It's going to get all those things. Just not at the same time

I was more thinking about the order in which you eat your food, how long you masticate, the delay between each meal, etc.
People have been mixing food for quite some time now, I hope someone would have figured it out if it was bad for digestion.

Just because it isn't bad doesn't mean it's good or necessary. And I know from my personal experience that I feel better not overloading my body with many different types of food in one meal. What is good for you may not be good for me and what's good for me may not be good for you!

I haven't! Are they good? I like radishes

So strong on the tastebuds :surprised Very good aside from that!

I'll have to try them sometime Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[SHroomtroll]

Its hard to debate this topic without hurting some feelings.
However there is nothing positive with a fruitarian diet.
We need all kinds of nutrients, both macro (protein,fats, carbs) along with micros (vitamins, minerals etc)
Just eating fruits is not gonna give us that.
It will however cause muscle atrophy from protein defiency along with all kinds of organ issues.
diabetes from only eating fructose as your main fuel.
And the lack of a balanced fatty acid profile can just destroy your hormone profile.
I could go on but i think my point is made.


There just isnt any scientific base for eating like this, its straight up stupid and dangerous!
The only people promoting this are delusional cultish types who has some agenda to promote this crap.
Usually books or some other product.

if you're going to bring up science, could you post some studies on long term raw vegans to verify your claims?


Which claims are talking about?? You could probably google anything i mentioned and find a ton of sources backing whatever i said.
And i never mentioned raw food vegans anywhere.
I actually eat a ton of raw food myself and consider it a very good source for vitamins and enzymes.
But im not getting my essential amino acids from only eating cold veggies and nuts.
However no real science claims eating only raw foods to be better than a balanced diet containing all kinds of food in the right amounts.
But i could add that ive met a shitton of these raw food hippies aswell, and most fall into the same category as vegans.
They just dont understand what kind of dicipline it takes to pull off such a strict diet.
So it leads to malnutrition and the health issues that follow

However most people who practise veganism ime are not that bright.

i highly doubt such an unintelligent comment would hurt anyones feelings.


I know that sounded bad , however i said ime which means most vegans ive met not all or even most vegans in general.
I havent met more than a few knowledgable vegans when it comes to nutrition.
Most have been severly malnutricious and had a bmi close to someone with anorexia.
I have met a few very healthy vegans though, but they used a bunch of herbals supplements though and had very strict diet regimes.

Its hard to get 1g per kg of whole grade protein per day with only plants foods.
Its def doable if you really try though.
Also there is the vitamin b defiency that many suffer from.

There are a few famous vegan body builders and mma fighters that do ok though.
However these are def not the norm and are most likely on ped's like most of their competitors.

Yeah i sound harsh and i apoligise if i hurt someones feeling or beliefs, but ive been in the fitness industry long enough to see the damage these kind of unbalanced diets can have on peoples health.
And it aint pretty.

Walk around any major city in the united states and notice how many over weight to obese people there are and how many of them eat meat. see how easy it is to make a generalized correlation that might not exist?

I dont see where i did a generelised statement?
Yeah most people eat like shit but so what?

I never claimed that eating meat will guarantee any success for the rest of your diet.
I just put the hammer down of fruitariasm which is a very simplistic and non logical way to look at nutrition.

My point is that its fine to call yourself whatever you want and join any food cult you feel like.
Just know that the easiest way to eat healthy is by eating as many kinds of foods as possbile.
Meats, dairy and grains is not bad. Not even saturated fat is the devil that its been claimed to be.
The biggest issue in todays food industry is the huge amount of sugar and processed foods.
All kinds of chemicals thats being used to flavour,colour etc the food.

Also just becasue you can survive on a diet does not make it healthy or good.
Most people are in fact in very bad shape in western countries.
I could make the claim that 80% of the adult population in my country is below accepted physical condition.


Wannabe vegan?? sure go ahead and do it! I never said its bad.
Just accept its gonna be harder than just eating moderate amounts of good quality animal protein.
Im not judging anyone here, im just putting it out there!
Alot of these alternative "experts" are just snakesoil salesman trying to monger their products.
Im not even gonna started on the mess of the "detox" industry.



If you want to learn about science based nutrition i can recomend to google john berardi.
He is however def not the be end all of diet.
However he runs one of the biggest nutrition education companies in the world.
He has a ton of free info on his site precissionnutriotion.com

Yes its a commercial company, but he is a worlf renovned expert in this field, he is getting paid shitton of money by sports teams and athlethes to optimise their nutrition and keep them in tiptop shape.

 

[endlessness]

Shroomtroll, I definitely see some of your points but I do agree with inaniel that if you claim some scientific facts, might as well back them up, and someone's webpage and books don't cut it IMO.... A peer reviewed paper would be more reliable.

(now not to you shroomtroll but in general to everybody) Diet is a tricky subject, a lot of people get really emotional over it. I think when stepping into such a discussion, the best attitude to have is that of "do whatever you want as long as you dont hurt others". And from that point, we can ask questions, we can talk about facts and nutrition and ethics and what not. But if we first step into the discussion with the idea to convince others of our ideas, it generaly turns out sour very quick.

 

[SHroomtroll]

Im not sure what claims i need to prove?
Its these newage diets that makes the claims of health and various benefits.
They need to prove themself to challenge the status quo.


There is just way to much to cover for me to start eductaing people about all the details.
The reason i linked berardis page is cause its a good non biased place for information about practical nutrition.
They write about the latest findings and give good neutral info about all kinds of fads and trends.
If you want source to studies then check out that site, you just gotta read an article and then look at the bottom of the page.

Everything i said is common knowledge that anyone would learn in a basic correct nutrition course.
Ive learned my info from science based sources and they all refer to the same studies.


I knew when i wrote my view that i was gonna open a can of worms.
I dont mean to be offensive or judgemental.
Its just that discussing these matters with people without any real education in the subject can be very challenging.
Esp if they have learned their informtaion from alternative sources that have an agenda.
These places can have a very judgmental way of writing and creating a us/them kind of envoirment where it ends up into a cultish thing.

There is a alot of pseudo science around in the rawfood/detox/vegan circles.
A huge industry in herbal supplements is driven by lies,half truths and imoral business practises.
People just dont want to accept that they have been tricked by some charming guru with a nice lifestyle choice they have bought.

This is the whole health/fitness in a nutshell though, its exactly the same as teens looking to get laid buy overpriced workout supps that is gonna give them a chest pump for 2days after their bench sesion.

 

[Synkromystic]

Diet is a tricky subject, a lot of people get really emotional over it. I think when stepping into such a discussion, the best attitude to have is that of "do whatever you want as long as you dont hurt others". And from that point, we can ask questions, we can talk about facts and nutrition and ethics and what not. But if we first step into the discussion with the idea to convince others of our ideas, it generaly turns out sour very quick.

I agree mostly. But When you say ''do whatever you want as long as you dont hurt others", do you include ALL animals as the others? Because, there are billions of poor factory farmed animals that are being abused and tortured their whole lives for the satisfaction of some people. I am not against other people eating meat, but wish that we as a race could start to treat the rest of the species on this earth with a bit more respect. Pigs in Gestation crates can't even turn around their ENTIRE lives. How would you like it if you could never move? People can do as they please, but we must all suffer the consequences of our actions!...But factory farming, which produces most of the meat, chicken and pork, is one of the sickest, most sadistic, twisted processes in the world.

But I will add. It is very ignorant for anyone to claim that we would all thrive living the exact same lifestyles. But what is more important, supporting mass genocide and torture, or thriving? Yet, I am finally starting to thrive on a high protein raw vegan diet...It took some time, experimentation, and lots of research and dedication, but it is highly rewarding (for me at least)