Frustrated Psychonaut

[jaychap1590]

New member and glad to be here!

My experiences, thus far, with psychedelics are somewhat limited. This is mostly due to the fact that I seemingly can't trip! Allow me to explain..

Firstly, I have been a near-daily marijuana smoker for about 12 years (since 2006). My first experience with psychs was with LSA about 10 years ago (2008) via morning glories, it was nothing transcendental just a strong body high.

I didn't have another go at tripping again until I tried LSD sometime around 2008. I tried acid twice that year, to minimal effect which is to be expected. The first time I really tripped on LSD was New Year's 2010. Two tabs under the tounge. The experience was mild and overall very positive but lacked the visuals I anticipated I would get compared to classically depicted (exaggerated) descriptions in movies and on TV. The next chance I got to try LSD wasn't for another 6 years in 2016. The effects were barely there, if at all, at this point and I found the same when I tried it yet again a few times in 2017 and 2018.

Take a step back to 2015 when I was diagnosed and first put on medication for bipolar depression. I had been on antidepressants, in one form or another, for the virtual entirety of my drug career. My first manic episode ensued following a 2 week marijuana binge of about 3-5 grams smoked daily. It took nearly 2 years to find a suitable combination of medications, Seroquel and Vraylar, which I am currently on.

In October of 2018, I had my singular experience with psilocybin mushrooms. 3.5 grams dried Golden Teacher, chewed and swallowed. No effects.

Within the past month, I have tried LSA via Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds sublingually. First, 5 seeds.. no effect. Wait 2 weeks, 10 seeds.. slight peg cramping, no effects. I am almost certain this is due to the antidepressant/antipsychotic I am currently on, Cariprazine (Vraylar). I am desperate to explore the entheogenic properties of psychedelics further, and am definitely not in it with the intent to get f****d up! I have tried detoxing the Vraylar from my system, a 6 week endevour, but my mood becomes too unstable after 3-4 weeks. I would like to seek out an alternative medication, perhaps an MAOI like Parnate or Nardil.

In the interum, is there any guidance you may have to offer? Would taking an MAOI like caapi with my psychs help at all or is the drug just being blocked in my brain receptors, period? Any help or suggestions in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

The only drug I can say I have really tripped out on hard was DXM, which I binged on (and got borderline addicted to) for 9 months in 2011.. I am very much looking forward to exploring the DMT world.


- JayChap

 

[Jupitor]

SSRI's are known to reduce the effects of certain psychedelics. But based on your dosages, I'm still shocked to hear of such small effects even before you started taking your medication. It wouldn't hurt for you to try an MAOI. Just make sure you research and follow safety protocols with diet, dosage, substance, and such. You may need to stop taking your med for a couple weeks beforehand, for example.

 

[jaychap1590]

SSRI's are known to reduce the effects of certain psychedelics. But based on your dosages, I'm still shocked to hear of such small effects even before you started taking your medication. It wouldn't hurt for you to try an MAOI. Just make sure you research and follow safety protocols with diet, dosage, substance, and such. You may need to stop taking your med for a couple weeks beforehand, for example.

How much does body weight play into the effects of the aforementioned substances I've tried? I'm way in the larger side.. like, 5 boxes of 30mg DXM tabs was a regular day for me in the height of my usage and if I were to it now the minimum is 2 boxes. That's not to say I can't feel the effects at a lower dosage, I'm just trying to give you an idea of how much of a substance I'm used to taking. An 1/8th of shrooms, 10 HBWR, and 5 hits of acid each taken on separate occasions seem like substantial doses.

 

[Maxtraxx]

I am almost certain this is due to the antidepressant/antipsychotic I am currently on, Cariprazine (Vraylar). .. I am very much looking forward to exploring the DMT world.


- JayChap

Hi JayChap

That sounds frustrating. But yea, those meds will definitely block your receptors, as they are intended to do. And trying to do without them, as you did, is not a solution either, since you apparently need them. This would be a good question for a pharmacologist, seriously.
Or perhaps your Doc? If you trust him/her.

In the meantime, check out the halflife of your meds. Most prescription psychoactives are metabolized within a few days, so you may not have to really "wean" yourself off of them, to have them out of your system.

I knew someone many years back, who also felt no effects from hallucinogenics...
Guess some people are immune?
Good luck!

 

[jaychap1590]

I am almost certain this is due to the antidepressant/antipsychotic I am currently on, Cariprazine (Vraylar). .. I am very much looking forward to exploring the DMT world.


- JayChap

Hi JayChap

That sounds frustrating. But yea, those meds will definitely block your receptors, as they are intended to do. And trying to do without them, as you did, is not a solution either, since you apparently need them. This would be a good question for a pharmacologist, seriously.
Or perhaps your Doc? If you trust him/her.

In the meantime, check out the halflife of your meds. Most prescription psychoactives are metabolized within a few days, so you may not have to really "wean" yourself off of them, to have them out of your system.

I knew someone many years back, who also felt no effects from hallucinogenics...
Guess some people are immune?
Good luck!

I really want to get off these meds, mainly due to the fact that I can't get high or drunk. I can literally drink half a 750ml of rum and feel nothing. Explaining this to a doctor, however, may not be so easy.. it took many months of trial and error to get on a stable cocktail of meds but, if my intention is to explore the world of psychedelics, I suppose I will just have to start a new. I'm currently without healthcare and Vraylar is $1200 USD per month, so that provides a good excuse to ask my doctor about alternative meds at least!

 

[Mindlusion]

both Seroquel and Vraylar are potent broad spectrum serotonin receptor antagonists.... (5ht1a, 5ht2a, 5ht2c..) as well as potent dopamine receptor antongists..

So its no question as to why the psychedelics have no effect, these are serotonin receptor agonists, and you have no receptors left for them to agonize. Your serotonin (and dopamine) receptors are completely inhibited and atrophied. This is the intention of the antidepressant drugs, they numb from feeling things that make you feel bad (drop in dopamine/serotonin) as well as what make you excited (rise in dopamine/serotonin). Very effective for halting bipolar disorder symptoms but not at all effective for living a meaningful life.

In order to heal the brain you'll have to spend quite some time off the drugs, a year or more, for your receptors to return to normal levels. Hopefully you can implement a new way of living so that you can manage your symptoms and stay healthy without inhibiting normal brain function. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

However with this attitude:

I really want to get off these meds, mainly due to the fact that I can't get high or drunk. I can literally drink half a 750ml of rum and feel nothing. Explaining this to a doctor, however, may not be so easy.. it took many months of trial and error to get on a stable cocktail of meds but,

is not a great way to start, doesn't look like you have a plan to change. You'll just end up with your mental illness coming back only to be 1000x worse than it was before, and you'll end up right back in the hospital. You haven't got better while being on the drugs, the drugs just buried those pathways. You are about to dig them up.

 

[Maxtraxx]

Wow, that's a chunk of change!
Talking to a psychiatrist is always dicey. On the one hand, you want to be honest and get the best advice/medication for your situation, and on the other, you want to get high/ripped/enlightened/etc... and don't want to tell your Doc "im doin' something illegit."
But you should be able to talk about it with your Doc anyway, "just hypothetically."

 

[jaychap1590]

In order to heal the brain you'll have to spend quite some time off the drugs, a year or more, for your receptors to return to normal levels. Hopefully you can implement a new way of living so that you can manage your symptoms and stay healthy without inhibiting normal brain function. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

This may be quite tricky. Without my meds my bipolar exhibits pronounced suicidal ideation, mixed episodes including "rapid cycling" (cycles are minutes for me, not hours or days) and severe insomnia ultimately culminating in psychosis, typically within a week or two I'm so delusional and grandiose that I literally don't know what's what or who I am if anyone at all.

 

[Mindlusion]

In order to heal the brain you'll have to spend quite some time off the drugs, a year or more, for your receptors to return to normal levels. Hopefully you can implement a new way of living so that you can manage your symptoms and stay healthy without inhibiting normal brain function. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

This may be quite tricky. Without my meds my bipolar exhibits pronounced suicidal ideation, mixed episodes including "rapid cycling" (cycles are minutes for me, not hours or days) and severe insomnia ultimately culminating in psychosis, typically within a week or two I'm so delusional and grandiose that I literally don't know what's what or who I am if anyone at all.

and you want to stop taking the drugs so you can get drunk and high, right ok, thats a great start. You're only as helpless as you think you are. You act as if its out of your control, meanwhile as an excuse you just set yourself up for your own demise.

I'm no stranger to mental illness, that is exactly how it works. It's the result of self will gone mad, utterly self-centered, selfish and yes, delusions of grandeur. Self-destruction and self fulfilling prophesies. and Yet still we blame it on something or someone else, out of our control. Tragic.

 

[jaychap1590]

However with this attitude:

I really want to get off these meds, mainly due to the fact that I can't get high or drunk. I can literally drink half a 750ml of rum and feel nothing. Explaining this to a doctor, however, may not be so easy.. it took many months of trial and error to get on a stable cocktail of meds but,

is not a great way to start, doesn't look like you have a plan to change. You'll just end up with your mental illness coming back only to be 1000x worse than it was before, and you'll end up right back in the hospital. You haven't got better while being on the drugs, the drugs just buried those pathways. You are about to dig them up.

I don't even really know anymore.. I don't have past traumas or situational factors that are contributing to my condition. The most psychotic I've ever been was due to psychoactive prescriptions. Antianxiety meds give me anxiety, some sleep meds keep me awake.

 

[Maxtraxx]

In order to heal the brain you'll have to spend quite some time off the drugs, a year or more, for your receptors to return to normal levels. Hopefully you can implement a new way of living so that you can manage your symptoms and stay healthy without inhibiting normal brain function. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

This may be quite tricky. Without my meds my bipolar exhibits pronounced suicidal ideation, mixed episodes including "rapid cycling" (cycles are minutes for me, not hours or days) and severe insomnia ultimately culminating in psychosis, typically within a week or two I'm so delusional and grandiose that I literally don't know what's what or who I am if anyone at all.

Those meds can be real life-savers! I know.
And I totally understand that you want to get off them asap!
Or at least be able to party and let go, once in a while.
But it sounds like your can get yourself in a bunch pretty fast, without the meds.
I would really consider talking it through with your Doc.
What can he say? No? Don't do it?
Or maybe he can give you another option...

 

[jaychap1590]

I'm no stranger to mental illness, that is exactly how it works. It's the result of self will gone mad, utterly self-centered, selfish and yes, delusions of grandeur. Self-destruction and self fulfilling prophesies. and Yet still we blame it on something or someone else, out of our control. Tragic.

Okay, look dude.. first, you're not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. You're not my therapist and you're making assertions about my intentions and philosophy on life after what exactly, a couple posts on a forum? Seriously, f**k off. I already stated I don't want to get into psychedelics for the pure sensation of being high. I want to work through something that maybe isn't apparently to my waking mind. I want perspective. I want a little hit of clarity. If the drugs are being blocked by my brain due to the meds I'm on, I can't accomplish any of that and move forth. Savvy?

I completely disagree with your interpretation of what a mental illness is and, as someone who has had great difficulty regulating my emotions on a chemical level, I find it quite offensive that you suggest my condition is my own doing. What control, through sheer will, do I have over my brain which processes and produces certain chemicals abnormally??

 

[Maxtraxx]

I'm no stranger to mental illness, that is exactly how it works. It's the result of self will gone mad, utterly self-centered, selfish and yes, delusions of grandeur. Self-destruction and self fulfilling prophesies. and Yet still we blame it on something or someone else, out of our control. Tragic.

Okay, look dude.. first, you're not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. You're not my therapist and you're making assertions about my intentions and philosophy on life after what exactly, a couple posts on a forum? Seriously, f**k off. I already stated I don't want to get into psychedelics for the pure sensation of being high. I want to work through something that maybe isn't apparently to my waking mind. I want perspective. I want a little hit of clarity. If the drugs are being blocked by my brain due to the meds I'm on, I can't accomplish any of that and move forth. Savvy?

I feel ya.
My friend who tried it the first time last week, said that it was like a "reset" or "reboot" of his brain, and that everything is clear again, like it hasn't been for long.
He had a breakthrough on as little as 20mg...and had a THC edible some hours before.
I would bring it up with my Doc.

 

[Mindlusion]

I'm no stranger to mental illness, that is exactly how it works. It's the result of self will gone mad, utterly self-centered, selfish and yes, delusions of grandeur. Self-destruction and self fulfilling prophesies. and Yet still we blame it on something or someone else, out of our control. Tragic.

Okay, look dude.. first, you're not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. You're not my therapist and you're making assertions about my intentions and philosophy on life after what exactly, a couple posts on a forum? Seriously, f**k off. I already stated I don't want to get into psychedelics for the pure sensation of being high. I want to work through something that maybe isn't apparently to my waking mind. I want perspective. I want a little hit of clarity. If the drugs are being blocked by my brain due to the meds I'm on, I can't accomplish any of that and move forth. Savvy?

I believe you have some good intentions, that you want to heal whats damaged, find a new perspective and that is what you find interesting about psychedelics.

But I also believe you when you say:

I really want to get off these meds, mainly due to the fact that I can't get high or drunk. I can literally drink half a 750ml of rum and feel nothing. Explaining this to a doctor, however, may not be so easy.. it took many months of trial and error to get on a stable cocktail of meds but,

Which at least you're being honest. I'm no different, I'd do the same thing. But worse, id probably never admit to it. Part of you wants what's best, but part of you is still holding onto what you know. It's human nature, don't have to be Carl Jung to see the truth in that. You still like getting high, and you like getting crazy, at least, there is some insane thrill, some part of your mind that tells you its ok, even though when you're in the midst of it, its nothing but abject misery.

You come to this forum seeking input, you've already made a decision, and you already know what you want to hear. So I'm not doing you any good by telling you what you want to hear. I've been in your position, and I have worked with countless others who have also been in your position, and I watch them suffer continually. Its a horrible illness.

Everything that I am telling you I am also telling myself. It's not what I want to hear either. So i'm just going to tell you the truth of my experience the best I can, and maybe I'll listen to it.

There is no middle road. It cannot be controlled. You cannot actively pursue and participate in behaviors and thought patterns that you know will lead you back to the insanity where you started. Once you've begun this cycle, it doesn't end until your back in psychosis. And it can take months, even years to get there. This is the truth we don't want to accept because we don't want to let go of the drugs and our way of life.

It would be great if psychedelics were some magical middle road where we could experience all the things we want to experience and then get better at the same time. And maybe they are, but not with a sick mind behind the driver's wheel.

You might just find that every problem you thought you solved with psychedelics just created 7 more problems for you down the road. The only thing that really works is doing the things we do not want to do, the very last stuff we want to do....

But hey maybe I'm wrong, what do I know. I'm definitely insane afterall. But go forward with this, give a try, see where you end up. And maybe after a few more cycles of that insanity beating you up, the stuff I say will make some sense, and maybe it won't. That's the only useful evidence there is after all. Its a long road. But hell, even knowing that I still won't listen to myself.

I'm not saying don't do them, by all means do them. Wouldn't do you any good telling you not to anyway since you've already decided. Same goes for me. They can certainly be helpful, but it will come at a cost. Don't fool yourself. Be aware the sick part of you is going to try and succeed in corrupting everything you do.

If anything at all, the experience had through psychedelics can bring immense light, bring you up into a new dimension of existence, and you can be exactly who you are and always wanted to be. Although afterward, if you choose wrong, you will fall back down. And you fall back harder and deeper than you ever thought possible. You can't have one without the other. Tread carefully.
It's life or death, there's no room for mistakes, no room for self-consciousness or embarrassment.
God be with you

 

[○]

I believe you have some good intentions, that you want to heal whats damaged, find a new perspective and that is what you find interesting about psychedelics.

But I also believe you when you say:

I really want to get off these meds, mainly due to the fact that I can't get high or drunk. I can literally drink half a 750ml of rum and feel nothing. Explaining this to a doctor, however, may not be so easy.. it took many months of trial and error to get on a stable cocktail of meds but,

Which at least you're being honest. I'm no different, I'd do the same thing. But worse, id probably never admit to it. Part of you wants what's best, but part of you is still holding onto what you know. It's human nature, don't have to be Carl Jung to see the truth in that. You still like getting high, and you like getting crazy, at least, there is some insane thrill, some part of your mind that tells you its ok, even though when you're in the midst of it, its nothing but abject misery.

You come to this forum seeking input, you've already made a decision, and you already know what you want to hear. So I'm not doing you any good by telling you what you want to hear. I've been in your position, and I have worked with countless others who have also been in your position, and I watch them suffer continually. Its a horrible illness.

Everything that I am telling you I am also telling myself. It's not what I want to hear either. So i'm just going to tell you the truth of my experience the best I can, and maybe I'll listen to it.

There is no middle road. It cannot be controlled. You cannot actively pursue and participate in behaviors and thought patterns that you know will lead you back to the insanity where you started. Once you've begun this cycle, it doesn't end until your back in psychosis. And it can take months, even years to get there. This is the truth we don't want to accept because we don't want to let go of the drugs and our way of life.

It would be great if psychedelics were some magical middle road where we could experience all the things we want to experience and then get better at the same time. And maybe they are, but not with a sick mind behind the driver's wheel.

You might just find that every problem you thought you solved with psychedelics just created 7 more problems for you down the road. The only thing that really works is doing the things we do not want to do, the very last stuff we want to do....

But hey maybe I'm wrong, what do I know. I'm definitely insane afterall. But go forward with this, give a try, see where you end up. And maybe after a few more cycles of that insanity beating you up, the stuff I say will make some sense, and maybe it won't. That's the only useful evidence there is after all. Its a long road. But hell, even knowing that I still won't listen to myself.

I'm not saying don't do them, by all means do them. Wouldn't do you any good telling you not to anyway since you've already decided. Same goes for me. They can certainly be helpful, but it will come at a cost. Don't fool yourself. Be aware the sick part of you is going to try and succeed in corrupting everything you do.

If anything at all, the experience had through psychedelics can bring immense light, bring you up into a new dimension of existence, and you can be exactly who you are and always wanted to be. Although afterward, if you choose wrong, you will fall back down. And you fall back harder and deeper than you ever thought possible. You can't have one without the other. Tread carefully.
It's life or death, there's no room for mistakes, no room for self-consciousness or embarrassment.
God be with you

Wise words there

 

[DmnStr8]

There are things you can do in your life that can help with your bi polar. Look into cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and start practicing as soon as you can. Combine this CBT with meditation. I found these two tools very helpful in identifying which mood I was approaching or was in. Sometimes it can really wash over you if you are not conscious about how your moods are swinging. The manic state can definitely take over in full force without even knowing. CBT and meditation help bring all of this to a better light.

Think about approaching bi polar another way. It is a chemical imbalance and this imbalance starts in the second brain (the gut). It is very important to learn how to rebalance your chemistry through healthy and conscious eating habits. I highly recommend a daily supplement of niacin. I believe I have tremendously improved my overall symtoms with the help of a healthier diet. Lots of fruits and veggies! Excercise is very helpful. Nature will always provide some peace as well. Be proactive and treat yourself.

I don't take any medications. Sure I still get in those moods swings. I have learned to work with it rather than against it. Each to their own. I choose to live with it my way. Psychedelics have helped me gain new perspectives and further healing. I don't think I could take much from these experiences had I not worked on healing myself first. Think about putting psychedelics on the back burner until you can get yourself into an even keel.

You have a unique way of experiencing the world which many people will never really understand.

Please consider watching the video below as I feel it would be as helpful to you as it was to me. Good luck in your healing and I wish you the best!

[youtube]

 

[Maxtraxx]

Tread carefully.
It's life or death, there's no room for mistakes, no room for self-consciousness or embarrassment.
God be with you

Wise words there

^That.

Think about approaching bi polar another way. It is a chemical imbalance and this imbalance starts in the second brain (the gut). It is very important to learn how to rebalance your chemistry through healthy and conscious eating habits.

Agree, diet is a much under-valued and under-appreciated aspect of health. We can't really control what additives we ingest with our mass-produced, processed foods, but we can keep an eye on complementing our food consumption with supplements that give our bodies and brain what they need, and even help to detoxify ourselves from the additives in processed food. And yes, exercise. Physical health supports mental health, for sure.

I'm 53 now and despite an ever-increasing list of 'issues' and ailments, I'm certainly planning on celebrating my 100th birthday on my feet!

 

[jaychap1590]

I thought I'd give an update on my situation..

Went to see a new psychiatrist today. At my request, he took me off the Vraylar and Seroquel (yay!) and put me on lamictal for bipolar depression and Ambien CR for sleep. Neither act on the dopamine receptors, like Vraylar did, and do not antagonize serotonin receptors either from what I understand.

Half-Life of Seroquel is 6 hours and Vraylar is 2-4 days. If the new meds are effective, I'll give it a solid month before trying psychs again. I think I'll start with 8x 0.5g psilocybin cubensis caps. Wish me luck!

 

[Maxtraxx]

Hey, that sounds like good news!
I hope the new meds will be effective.
It'll likely take a month or so, just to find out, right?
I wish you best luck with that!

 

[jaychap1590]

Hey, that sounds like good news!
I hope the new meds will be effective.
It'll likely take a month or so, just to find out, right?
I wish you best luck with that!

thanks! I've been on enough meds to know within a few days if it's working out or not, 1-2 weeks tops