fumaric acid won't dissolve in acetone

[KloudQ7]

Not sure why it is happening, any advice? Should I heat it?

 

[concombres]

No need to heat. Are you certain what you have is fumaric acid & only fumaric acid?

You can test if any is actually dissolving by filtering some of your acetone with the fumaric acid mixed in, giving time to adequately dissolve, evaporating a little in a dish.

If your fumaric acid is not dissolving & you know your acetone evaps clean, there should be no residue left after evaporation.

Also, if you could provide some type of information on the fumaric acid you are using it may be helpful.
Never buy fumaric acid in capsules, that psoriasis treatment stuff is not fumaric acid & most supplement capsules come with other ingredients.
Pure fumaric acid can be found in bulk inconspicuously & very cheap.

 

[endlessness]

If it is fumaric acid and you added a lot, it may seem like nothing is dissolving, but it is. Not much will dissolve. If you'd weigh the undissolved fumaric acid it would be less than you added in the first place

 

[Emptiness]

I don't even need to weigh it... I just dump a huge load of fumaric acid in, waaaayy in excess. Then after it has fizzled and converted and acetone goes clear I pour off the excess acetone... let it the powder dry of excess acetone, then water on to it and the dmt-fumarate goes in to the water leaving the excess fumaric acid behind. You repeat with fresh water a few times untill its clear and ur sure there is no more dmt-fumarate left.

Depending how much water you can either just go straight to fan drying or boil the excess water off untill 20 ml and then fan dry. Result will be DMT-fumarate crystals... I also save the excess acetone in another dish as this may contain DMT-n-oxide along with some unreacted fumaric acid.

This means that if your naphtha has water in it from evapping to fast you can just go straight to conversion and no need to wait for the water to dry before hand. easy as chips!

 

[pitubo]

Everybody:

This thread is a homework thread. Do a little study and a little research and you will find answers faster than the time it takes to wait for answers to your question on the forum. (If you found this post via a search, you did the right thing!)

This particular subject is covered in the wiki, even: The FASA Method.

Because the wiki article doesn't mention the stochiometry of dmt freebase versus fumaric acid, I'll quote it from this historical thread titled The FASA Method: A Summary - DMT Fumarate and Beyond:

Here’s the quick tech:

1) Completely dissolve 1000 mg of freebase DMT in 50 ml of acetone.
2) Completely dissolve 309 mg of fumaric acid in another batch of 50 ml of acetone.
3) Mix for 1 minute and evaporate at room temperature to give DMT fumarate.

Obviously, you'll have to adjust amounts of acetone and fumaric acid to suit the amount of dmt freebase you want to convert.

KloudQ7:

Conventional wisdom on the nexus is that 100 ml of dry acetone will dissolve a little over 0.6 gram of fumaric acid. If you add 0.7 gram or more to 100 ml, logically not all will dissolve. The acetone must be dry, ie. free from water.

Even the theoretical maximum amount will not dissolve immediately but may need some time standing and occasional swirling or shaking. This is best done in a container that can be kept closed, so that the acetone doesn't absorb water vapor from the atmosphere. If the acetone gets wet, the dmt fumarate may not crash out completely anymore.

After the fumaric acid has dissolved into the acetone to the point of saturation, you can decant the FASA (fumaric acid saturated acetone) onto another clean and dry container, leaving the undissolved fumaric acid in the other container.

Emptiness:

I'm sorry to say, but to me your procedure doesn't look right in many ways and I even wonder if it works properly at all. For example, fumaric acid is soluble in water (4.3 g/l) and therefore water washes will not separate fumaric acid from dmt fumarate. Also I find your descriptions like "dump a huge load" less than useful. We should be precise in our procedures and communications about these procedures.

 

[KloudQ7]

Thanks all. I just did my math wrong and put too much. Seemed like it wasn't dissolving, but the acetone is definitely saturated.

 

[Emptiness]

Emptiness:

I'm sorry to say, but to me your procedure doesn't look right in many ways and I even wonder if it works properly at all. For example, fumaric acid is soluble in water (4.3 g/l) and therefore water washes will not separate fumaric acid from dmt fumarate. Also I find your descriptions like "dump a huge load" less than useful. We should be precise in our procedures and communications about these procedures.

if you have 10 ml of water that is 40mg lol so you might have like 50 mls of water with 2 grams dmt-fumarate dissolved. That makes 300mg of fumaric acid to 2 grams of DMT-fumarate. One dose of dmt-fumarate is approx say... 100mg so that means for every dose of dmt-fumarate you will get 15mg of fumaric acid too...

Do you know how much they use for psoriasis treatment?

360mg daily dose! So it isn't any concern. Fumaric acid actually has immuno benefits too in fighting off free-radicals.

So thanks for your concern but the procedure is right and does work properly :lol: :thumb_up:

It works great for me and the dosages are normal as well. I use it to convert for storage too so the tiny amount of excess fumaric acid doesn't even matter.

P.S. I don't care whether you find my terminology "less than useful", we are human beings not robots... half the fun of communication ARE things like acronyms and hyperboles etc. I really find people who just talk like robots so boring to listen to, they are usually the ones who can't spot a joke quickly or even make a joke because they are so pre-occupied by 'how to speak properly and precisely like an aristocrat'. Sorry, I don't want to talk about this stuff but you started the argument against me and I suggest you shouldn't bring things like this up with people like this because there is a code of conduct on here that states you should not be confrontational. Just accept things my friend, you will feel better that way :thumb_up:

 

[arcologist]

Fumaric acid is not particularly soluble in acetone as has been stated. It takes a LOT of acetone.

I acquired some fumaric acid from a spice shop once that ended up being ~10% sugar (best guess). No matter how hard I tried, some portion of the fumaric acid wouldn't dissolve. I poured off the acetone and let it dry out. Upon tasting, mildly sweet, did not taste like fumaric acid at all. It still worked for fumarate conversion, but I just had to add a little extra and decant the acetone before adding to DMT solution. So, not all fumaric acids are created equal.

 

[pitubo]

P.S. I don't care whether you find my terminology "less than useful", we are human beings not robots... half the fun of communication ARE things like acronyms and hyperboles etc. I really find people who just talk like robots so boring to listen to, they are usually the ones who can't spot a joke quickly or even make a joke because they are so pre-occupied by 'how to speak properly and precisely like an aristocrat'. Sorry, I don't want to talk about this stuff but you started the argument against me and I suggest you shouldn't bring things like this up with people like this because there is a code of conduct on here that states you should not be confrontational. Just accept things my friend, you will feel better that way :thumb_up:

Hi, welcome to the dmt nexus. BTW did you notice how many times the banners on the top of the page read "entheogen university learn - share - expand"? I never once saw it read "entheogen themepark lolz - d00dz - wtf?!11!". You may also notice the conspicuous absence of animated gifs in avatars and signatures.

IMHO writing down accurate descriptions of procedures is very important. Sloppy writing causes unnecessary confusion and misunderstanding. This in turn may lead to many elementary questions flooding the forum, causing the overall quality of the forum to drop. Putting in a little extra effort when writing on the forum should inspire others in turn to also put in a little extra effort before asking questions that may have been answered before, or before writing down procedures that could be described more exactly. What is written here is written only once, but read many times. One should be considerate to take the efforts of all the readers in account when posting messages.

Exactness and precision can be paramount in matters of safety. Safety is an important focus point of this forum.

I quite disagree with your presumption that precise communication and spirited expression are mutually incompatible. But tastes differ as styles differ and different people may have a different sense of humor.

Writing fully articulated sentences and sensible use of punctuations should be a sign of civility and common courtesy, not a privilege of the aristocracy.

 

[Emptiness]

P.S. I don't care whether you find my terminology "less than useful", we are human beings not robots... half the fun of communication ARE things like acronyms and hyperboles etc. I really find people who just talk like robots so boring to listen to, they are usually the ones who can't spot a joke quickly or even make a joke because they are so pre-occupied by 'how to speak properly and precisely like an aristocrat'. Sorry, I don't want to talk about this stuff but you started the argument against me and I suggest you shouldn't bring things like this up with people like this because there is a code of conduct on here that states you should not be confrontational. Just accept things my friend, you will feel better that way :thumb_up:

Hi, welcome to the dmt nexus. BTW did you notice how many times the banners on the top of the page read "entheogen university learn - share - expand"? I never once saw it read "entheogen themepark lolz - d00dz - wtf?!11!". You may also notice the conspicuous absence of animated gifs in avatars and signatures.

IMHO writing down accurate descriptions of procedures is very important. Sloppy writing causes unnecessary confusion and misunderstanding. This in turn may lead to many elementary questions flooding the forum, causing the overall quality of the forum to drop. Putting in a little extra effort when writing on the forum should inspire others in turn to also put in a little extra effort before asking questions that may have been answered before, or before writing down procedures that could be described more exactly. What is written here is written only once, but read many times. One should be considerate to take the efforts of all the readers in account when posting messages.

Exactness and precision can be paramount in matters of safety. Safety is an important focus point of this forum.

I quite disagree with your presumption that precise communication and spirited expression are mutually incompatible. But tastes differ as styles differ and different people may have a different sense of humor.

Writing fully articulated sentences and sensible use of punctuations should be a sign of civility and common courtesy, not a privilege of the aristocracy.

Haha thanks for making me giggle. I guess you are right, they should probably make you moderator around here so that you can do this with authority instead of just personal choice. Would you like that? You got to love power right? The sense of entitlement? Anyway lol, I am not sure precise communication and spirited expression are mutually incompatible either. I was just saying that spirited expression is uncommon to be found in people who choose to focus primarily on precise communication. I think you know why this would be too, from a neurological perspective that is. Right? Perhaps they have to deal with so much information processing that they fail to see the bigger picture so to speak, to stand back and see it with humor and with wit rather than intellect or the desire to be right and correct. Haven't you met people like that before? Such people can be found in courtrooms, debating rooms etc. Have you thought about that as a career though pitubo? you'd be good at it

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Just remember that spelling could be the difference between life and death in chemistry. As could the position of a decimal point.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Not necessarily the funniest (except when I do it, of course.)