getting rid of unpleasantness?

[lorentz5]

Ran across a particular 25x extract which consistently induces unpleasant effects at first. For the fist 5minutes every single time, dosing 20mg or above, the trip is wasted because all that is felt is:

My mind's eye could still see the beings peeling away from me like characters on a film screen. Their facial expressions were embedded onto its surface as the entire film peeled, or rather, billowed outwardly from my body. I watched as each successive layer of skin or film dislocated itself from my body. Each layer of skin was an entire world, a world projected onto a two dimensional curving surface. It looked like a succession of movie worlds encoded onto silken layers of fabric parachuting like snapshots outwardly from my body.

And this effect is UNPLEASANT. There is a strong desire to escape. This folding drives me insane, and it is only in the latter ten minutes that the experience begins to take on an actually practical side of introspective analysis that can be brought back to the real world.

When coming into a trip, he always clean his place, his mind, his body, attempts to meditate, weighs his dose, and when going above 30mg, he has someone in the room. Simply, he prepares all he can prepare and still the salvia punishes by making him endure that bullshit 5min folding madness every time.

Previous extracts never caused this. (He also did not extract himself this time)

How can this effect be escaped or transformed into something useful?

 

[ElusiveMind]

Ran across a particular 25x extract which consistently induces unpleasant effects at first. For the fist 5minutes every single time, dosing 20mg or above, the trip is wasted because all that is felt is:

My mind's eye could still see the beings peeling away from me like characters on a film screen. Their facial expressions were embedded onto its surface as the entire film peeled, or rather, billowed outwardly from my body. I watched as each successive layer of skin or film dislocated itself from my body. Each layer of skin was an entire world, a world projected onto a two dimensional curving surface. It looked like a succession of movie worlds encoded onto silken layers of fabric parachuting like snapshots outwardly from my body.

And this effect is UNPLEASANT. There is a strong desire to escape. This folding drives me insane, and it is only in the latter ten minutes that the experience begins to take on an actually practical side of introspective analysis that can be brought back to the real world.

When coming into a trip, he always clean his place, his mind, his body, attempts to meditate, weighs his dose, and when going above 30mg, he has someone in the room. Simply, he prepares all he can prepare and still the salvia punishes by making him endure that bullshit 5min folding madness every time.

Previous extracts never caused this. (He also did not extract himself this time)

How can this effect be escaped or transformed into something useful?

Well, first of all for SWIM anyways, finds 20mg of 25x IS a bit more intense. SWIM usually does 15mg of 25x if wanting a stronger experience but that all comes down to the persons body and preference.

Uhhh... One way SWIM likes to tackle this "problem" once in a while is start of with a sublingual or quid dose in a medium range. Let that sit for 20-30 mins or until desired effect is reached, the when ready to lift off, use smaller doses of 25x or other to "tip toe" in Salvia world.

Quid and sub. experiences last roughly an hour or two. By using smaller doses on top of a quid dose (which SWIM finds to be a smooth transition), SWIY can temporarily jumped into Salvia world for 10-15 mins then come back down into a more stable mind with salvia to analyze the situation. Tip Toe as many times as SWIY wants 8)

Hope this helps SWIY,

ElusiveMind

 

[lorentz5]

Quid and sub. experiences last roughly an hour or two. By using smaller doses on top of a quid dose (which SWIM finds to be a smooth transition), SWIY can temporarily jumped into Salvia world for 10-15 mins

Experiencing an hour of folding would be very torturous. It's like an infinite loop of reality just spatially folding onto and onto and onto itself.

Gonna try with a quid when some fresh leaves become available, see if it makes a difference.

My FOAF needs much more than most people to have a breakthrough experience, up to 0.1g, which is harsh on his lungs and half the time he can't even hold it in... though he doesn't really make that (breakthrough) his goal now. Kind of seems like disrespect to demand. He'll probably give up on salvia in terms of taking him to that place and stick to low doses for meditation were this unpleasantness is not strongly felt.

Thanks for your help

 

[Lavos]

Well, one route to go would be to use a very large dose, expecting to completely dissolve reality, thereby nothing to fold in on itself. This, imo, can't be that much worse than the 5 minutes of reality folding folding folding. Right. I blacked out before I hit the ground, sound swallowed me. Waking up was painful, but soon I'll have to do it again.

It's experiences like this, reality closing and ripping, that really scare me right now, because I haven't seen it myself. I'm a little more comfortable with the idea of coping my way back from the void, as opposed to diving face first into the void.

 

[burningmouth]

My mind's eye could still see the beings peeling away from me like characters on a film screen. Their facial expressions were embedded onto its surface as the entire film peeled, or rather, billowed outwardly from my body. I watched as each successive layer of skin or film dislocated itself from my body. Each layer of skin was an entire world, a world projected onto a two dimensional curving surface. It looked like a succession of movie worlds encoded onto silken layers of fabric parachuting like snapshots outwardly from my body.

LOL, that quote sounds very, very familiar. I could almost swear it's my quote.
You're right. It is unpleasant when it's happening, because the whole thing is so radically other. I mean, who the hell feels realities ripping off the surface of their bodies? I've never heard a guest on Oprah talk about it. This is why I'm afraid to go back there. No cowards allowed. But you know what? We aren't going to make any progress unless we are prepared to venture into strange, scary territory.

So to the holders of the secrets, I say, "bring it on, bit##es!!!" ( respectfully )

You talk about the five minutes of folding bullshit. It's precisely this bullshit that we need to explore. Once explored and processed, we can move forward.

 

[Metanoia]

You talk about the five minutes of folding bullshit. It's precisely this bullshit that we need to explore. Once explored and processed, we can move forward.

I thought it, but you said it.

I used to find the folding very uncomfortable until I relaxed into it and managed my expectations. I though to myself, "If I just fold and fold for the next 20 minutes, so be it." Now when it happens, it's almost pleasant. Maybe it's all down to learned reactions.

 

[Lucent]

You talk about the five minutes of folding bullshit. It's precisely this bullshit that we need to explore. Once explored and processed, we can move forward.

I thought it, but you said it.

I used to find the folding very uncomfortable until I relaxed into it and managed my expectations. I though to myself, "If I just fold and fold for the next 20 minutes, so be it." Now when it happens, it's almost pleasant. Maybe it's all down to learned reactions.

Exactly! I find the folding to be pretty amazing.. Plus, a big part of Salvia for me is overcoming 'the fear'. For some reason when I give in and realize I can't control it, that's when it shows me the most. And Salvia never fails to shatter my expectations.. It's always entirely different then what I remember and expect, yet somehow it all makes sense and is so familiar. Salvia always has something new in store for me!

 

[lorentz5]

Can't lie, I suffer from prelaunch anxiety with salvia. I've tried relaxing into it, but it just seems to consistently produce the same effect.

Once explored and processed, we can move forward.

While this sounds great, I don't understand what can possibly be explored in what I experience, which is in essence a purely visionary play on space. And what does forward mean? I don't know.

I challenge the claim that on needs to ease into it:
Had a buddy I smoked up, and during his first experience, he felt confined to a two-dimensional plane, and said he fought as hard as he could to break free, and he managed to do so successfully (this manifested in the fellow rising quite violently from his seat). He came out mind-blown, tearing in happiness, and told me it was most beautiful experience of his life. I'm pretty envious :/

 

[burningmouth]

Exactly! I find the folding to be pretty amazing.. Plus, a big part of Salvia for me is overcoming 'the fear'. For some reason when I give in and realize I can't control it, that's when it shows me the most. And Salvia never fails to shatter my expectations.. It's always entirely different then what I remember and expect, yet somehow it all makes sense and is so familiar. Salvia always has something new in store for me!

You sound like me a couple of years ago. Every time I blasted off, I would return with new insights. Lately, there haven't been many insights. That should change in the upcoming months. "Shatter my expectations"Yep. That's it.

Can't lie, I suffer from prelaunch anxiety with salvia. I've tried relaxing into it, but it just seems to consistently produce the same effect.

Once explored and processed, we can move forward.

While this sounds great, I don't understand what can possibly be explored in what I experience, which is in essence a purely visionary play on space. And what does forward mean? I don't know.

I challenge the claim that on needs to ease into it:
Had a buddy I smoked up, and during his first experience, he felt confined to a two-dimensional plane, and said he fought as hard as he could to break free, and he managed to do so successfully (this manifested in the fellow rising quite violently from his seat). He came out mind-blown, tearing in happiness, and told me it was most beautiful experience of his life. I'm pretty envious :/

Yeah. I can only speak for myself. I say "forward" because I want to believe that there is a progression towards a goal. It makes the whole thing more interesting for me.

I've been stuck in that 2d plane for awhile now. I associate the 2d plane with a near death experience. I think if I could bust out of that, I would be crying with tears of joy too.
All I know is there's alot of information that's right beyond my grasp. Hopefully, earth shattering information.

I've noticed an uptick in posts the last few weeks. Maybe we all setting ourselves up for a very productive spring/summer. I'm getting a good vibe from you guys. Now that Dioxippus in on board, it's time to rock.

 

[Metanoia]

Amen brother!

I've been pushing myself to smoke the extracts I have. My pre-launch anxiety, as lorentz aptly put it, is beginning to vanish. I had another pleasant experience last night with my 5x. I felt the tearing apart that I usually experience, and had some visions of a circus/carnival-esque place. Striped tents, a weird elephant looking creature, and some masked performers that stared at me, but didn't speak. Interesting, but I know I need to go deeper. It was encouraging, however. Reminds me that I can handle these experiences, and that the anxiety/fear response is only when I forget. Salvia always makes me remember.

 

[lorentz5]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It inspired me to launch again. I tried to ease into it even more. The first time was the same: panic, unpleasantness... but while coming down, I paid particular attention to my mind. It seemed so obvious to me how tense it was... what a great flurry of nervous electrical signals. I tried to calm myself, to let go of all thoughts and relax myself entirely, and it was SO difficult.

It inspired me to enter my next meditation session with that goal in mind, and I had no IDEA how indisciplined I was.

The next time, I took about 5 hits of 0.1g, as much as my feeble lungs could handle, for as long as possible. I know by any standards this is massive, but that's how much it takes me, my smoking technique is good. People who use the same smoking technique off my device get the same effects of 0.03g, it's definitely just my weird tolerance.

I couldn't take the fifth hit and fell off a chair, gasping for air, as my saliva dripped to the ground like a Jacob's ladder toy. The butane struck my hand and a feeling of shock and pain resonated within my mind "OWWW" ... "OWW" ... "OW" ... "ow" ........ ... Anyway, I awoke in a pool of my drool with a burnt hand, bong swinging unbroken from its protective strap (I prepared! About 2 years ago I destroyed a bong on salvia by dropping it)

But what happened in between was interesting...

During the initial 5 minutes, I remembered, in absolute clarity, the dream I had the night before, which was long forgotten. This is extremely interesting. Salvia somehow made me remember. In addition to that, it took me back to a time in my childhood, and showed me a glimpse in time. A sliver. Of an emotion. I can't recall exactly what or when, but it was one of some sort of trouble. It was in my home country. It was a taste. I tried so hard to bring it back, but all I could remember was that taste.

Wow. I think I got what I came for. Venturing into those unpleasant realms was definitely a good idea. It's just incredible what salvia is capable of, I definitely underestimated it.

 

[godling]

Ran across a particular 25x extract which consistently induces unpleasant effects at first. For the fist 5minutes every single time, dosing 20mg or above, the trip is wasted because all that is felt is:

My mind's eye could still see the beings peeling away from me like characters on a film screen. Their facial expressions were embedded onto its surface as the entire film peeled, or rather, billowed outwardly from my body. I watched as each successive layer of skin or film dislocated itself from my body. Each layer of skin was an entire world, a world projected onto a two dimensional curving surface. It looked like a succession of movie worlds encoded onto silken layers of fabric parachuting like snapshots outwardly from my body.

And this effect is UNPLEASANT. There is a strong desire to escape. This folding drives me insane, and it is only in the latter ten minutes that the experience begins to take on an actually practical side of introspective analysis that can be brought back to the real world.

When coming into a trip, he always clean his place, his mind, his body, attempts to meditate, weighs his dose, and when going above 30mg, he has someone in the room. Simply, he prepares all he can prepare and still the salvia punishes by making him endure that bullshit 5min folding madness every time.

Previous extracts never caused this. (He also did not extract himself this time)

How can this effect be escaped or transformed into something useful?

... umm i haven't read through the other posts... but it seems to me that you are learning how we create by seeing a literal representation of it... we each create entire worlds and beyond.. we each are a cell within the body of god..


i feel as though i can see your experience and it is amazing.. though i'm sure i don't do it justice


we have to "accept" what we see as negative to feel the positive vibration towards our experiences as a whole

 

[Lucent]

Amen brother!

I've been pushing myself to smoke the extracts I have. My pre-launch anxiety, as lorentz aptly put it, is beginning to vanish. I had another pleasant experience last night with my 5x. I felt the tearing apart that I usually experience, and had some visions of a circus/carnival-esque place. Striped tents, a weird elephant looking creature, and some masked performers that stared at me, but didn't speak. Interesting, but I know I need to go deeper. It was encouraging, however. Reminds me that I can handle these experiences, and that the anxiety/fear response is only when I forget. Salvia always makes me remember.

My last few Salvia experiences I've experienced the folding/bending, but I've been feeling a strong urge to smoke more so I can go deeper.. It's as if they were wanting me to go deeper, saying just take more next time.. it'll be fine, we'll show you more.. You're ready.
It's been pretty pleasant and I can't wait to finally move up to a stronger dose. I think I'm finally comfortable moving up.. Now I just need to keep an eye on that reverse tolerance they talk about.. lol.

 

[burningmouth]

Amen brother!

I've been pushing myself to smoke the extracts I have. My pre-launch anxiety, as lorentz aptly put it, is beginning to vanish. I had another pleasant experience last night with my 5x. I felt the tearing apart that I usually experience, and had some visions of a circus/carnival-esque place. Striped tents, a weird elephant looking creature, and some masked performers that stared at me, but didn't speak. Interesting, but I know I need to go deeper. It was encouraging, however. Reminds me that I can handle these experiences, and that the anxiety/fear response is only when I forget. Salvia always makes me remember.

You've had that carnival experience before. Were those scenes very detailed like in a cartoon? Were the masked performers tiny or regular sized (if that makes any sense). Oh yeah, was the scene stationary or was it constantly moving? Just curious...I want to get a sense of just what you saw.

... but while coming down, I paid particular attention to my mind. It seemed so obvious to me how tense it was... what a great flurry of nervous electrical signals. I tried to calm myself, to let go of all thoughts and relax myself entirely, and it was SO difficult.

There is something that I experience but I never read from other experiences.
I can actually physically feel the salvia realm/world/space moving through my brain/mind. This is really noticable at the end of the trip when the salvia world moves away from my brain/mind. I can feel it brushing across my mind as if it were a dense plasma cloud. I can feel it 'letting go' and moving on as the trip winds down. Very weird.

 

[Metanoia]

Good to hear you had some sort of success lorentz. What you described sounds a lot like some of my earlier trips when I was first delving into Salviaspace.

You've had that carnival experience before. Were those scenes very detailed like in a cartoon? Were the masked performers tiny or regular sized (if that makes any sense). Oh yeah, was the scene stationary or was it constantly moving? Just curious...I want to get a sense of just what you saw.

Yes, that's a very common theme for me. I've experienced that carnival landscape many, many times. I think it was kedarba over at EDOT who also experienced it, except he called it a "Fête", which is basically a festival or celebration. The scenes are always very detailed, and feel very much like being inside a cartoon. The scene is stationary, as if I'm actually standing on the ground in the midst of these big striped tents. Sometimes I'm outside of them, other times I'm inside. It's very common for me to start to see this striped sort of fabric when I take a big hit of plain leaf. I feel that beckoning, the "come play with us" type of feeling, and it comes flooding back, "I'm invited to the party!" The performers seemed smaller than I am, but I wonder if that's just because I'm a big person in this reality, and people are usually smaller than I am. It probably has nothing to do with it, because the Salvia world is definitely very alien compared to consensus reality.

Salvia is so hard to describe, that's about the best I can do. I'll have to get more practice trying to word my Salvia trips. I write them down now, but I don't go for literary style, or even descriptiveness. I write it how I feel it, or think it, and when I read it over I understand what I mean. That might not be true for everyone else, however