Handeling pressure/heat bath/best container

[Tom Grunder]

Hello guys!

Foreword: Swim did some research on this topic and didn't come to a accaptable final conclusion, so this post was made. Swim uses Benzinum medicinale instead of naptha. Benzinum medicinale does basicly the same for the purpose.

Swim done a few successful extractions with the "Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek".
Doing everything exactly, as the tek shows(with the amounts stated).

Someday, when swim heated the "whole"(including naptha) solution (to about 105°F/41°C), he hears a sound, that air comes out of his container.
(Used container: 41e Xn AUN7f L hosted at ImgBB )(highest quality container of its kind available)
After he did the heated shaking, the pressure inside of the container was so high, that the solution made his way through the rubberring and messed up his whole kitchen.
For future extractions, swim wants so use a more safe container.
Do you got any suggestions? Swim red, that the jars, that he used, where very good for it.
Is a container with a twist-off-opening better for the job?
(Like: 812274 Dose xxl hosted at ImgBB )
Swim wasn't able to find a good high quality twist-off-container in online-shops(located in Germany).
Maybe something like that is better: erlenmeyerkolben gewinde kappe blau b450 13309 0 13310 0 13311 0 13312 0 hosted at ImgBB ??
How do you guys handle the pressure, that heated baths bring?

Is there any better way to mix (better that shaking?)
Swim thought of mixing the solution with a jugs juice ( bb83c2488882647d61e3a563ae0e58b4 hosted at ImgBB ) is this a good idea, or does it effect the solution? When the container is opened, the Benzinum medicinale just dissolves so fast, when its heated.
Swim also thought about a magnetic stirer, but he has no idea, how he can combine the magnatic stirer with a heat bath. (A stirer, that can heat whould only heat the bottom of the solution?)

Swims main idea was to take a jar, place it in a bucket, an use a so called "sous-vide"device, which holds the watertemperature always on the desiered temperature. ( 31 Kseb A1qq L hosted at ImgBB ) and then shake or stir with a jugs juice.

Which is the best temperature for heated baths? Swim red numbers from 100°F/37°C to 123°F/51°C

For seperation he used a syringe, but he wants to switch to a good turkey baster. How can swim make the seperation easier? More Benzinum medicinale?

Just to add everything up:
1. Which container should swim take? Which can handle the heated pressure the best?
2. How should swim mix the solution, that it's safe and effective?
3. How should swim perform the heated baths?
4. How high should the temperature for the heated bath be?
5. How to make the seperation of Benzinum medicinale easier?

I guess, that this are topics, who are interesting to discuss, because safty is #1 priority

Greetings from Germanys capitol - Berlin
and sorry for the bad english grammar

 

[pitubo]

First, it's spelled naphtha, not naptha or naphta. It's even a german word, so you really have no excuse to misspell it. (sorry to be so pedantic, but this helps future people who also misspell it and may perhaps find this page.)

Second, for good and cheaper sources of naphtha in Germany, see this posting. Your Wundbenzin is fine though, apart from the apparent presence of very low boiling fractions in it.

Third, do not try to compensate for any nontrivial pressure evolving in your extraction vessel. Instead, prevent it from occurring in the first place. You can safely remove the very low boiling fractions by filling a pan or tray with hot water (60 degrees celcius) and placing this outside in a well ventilated place where there are no sources of ignition nearby. Then place a wide mouthed container or bowl containing your Wundbenzin in the hot water bath. Let the lower boiling fractions boil away. You now have a naphtha that can be used safely at temperatures up to 40 degrees without evolution of pressure.

Or you could buy a different type of naphtha that has less low boiling fractions. Don't go overboard by buying a naphtha that has a boiling point of over 180 degrees, because that makes it much harder to dry the final freeze precipitated product from solvent traces.

It is generally not advised to heat the extraction liquids over 40 degrees celcius, because that gives a less pure product. When seriously overheating you might even end up with a dark brown goo instead of sparkling white crystals.

Finally, glass syringes are easy to find on ebay in Germany. I would prefer those over any turkey baster. Merkins use those because they are easy to find in the USA, but a good glass syringe is better anyway. Get a "Kolbenhubpipette" if you want it really fancy.

 

[Fidelsbeard]

May I ask, pitubo, is that part of the glass syringe or an attachment? I use a glass syringe but yours is awesome!

 

[pitubo]

It's not mine (though I do own one, somewhere in my glassware collection).

That picture comes straight from ebay (quick! )

 

[Tom Grunder]

First, it's spelled naphtha, not naptha or naphta. It's even a german word, so you really have no excuse to misspell it. (sorry to be so pedantic, but this helps future people who also misspell it and may perhaps find this page.)

Second, for good and cheaper sources of naphtha in Germany, see this posting. Your Wundbenzin is fine though, apart from the apparent presence of very low boiling fractions in it.

Third, do not try to compensate for any nontrivial pressure evolving in your extraction vessel. Instead, prevent it from occurring in the first place. You can safely remove the very low boiling fractions by filling a pan or tray with hot water (60 degrees celcius) and placing this outside in a well ventilated place where there are no sources of ignition nearby. Then place a wide mouthed container or bowl containing your Wundbenzin in the hot water bath. Let the lower boiling fractions boil away. You now have a naphtha that can be used safely at temperatures up to 40 degrees without evolution of pressure.

Or you could buy a different type of naphtha that has less low boiling fractions. Don't go overboard by buying a naphtha that has a boiling point of over 180 degrees, because that makes it much harder to dry the final freeze precipitated product from solvent traces.

It is generally not advised to heat the extraction liquids over 40 degrees celcius, because that gives a less pure product. When seriously overheating you might even end up with a dark brown goo instead of sparkling white crystals.

Finally, glass syringes are easy to find on ebay in Germany. I would prefer those over any turkey baster. Merkins use those because they are easy to find in the USA, but a good glass syringe is better anyway. Get a "Kolbenhubpipette" if you want it really fancy.

Wow, thank you!!!:thumb_up: :thumb_up:

So you whould basicly advice swim to get
1. Spezialbenzin (no need of taking out low boiling fractions)?
2."Grillanzunder"(which is almost pure Ethanol [Spiritus]) or
3. "Testbenzin", when boiling point is under 80°C or
4. "Terpentinersatz" or
5. Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) and take the low boiling fractions out
And for recrystallise using Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) or Spezialbenzin?

I'll guess swims going to buy the glass syringe! Or is there any good Kolbenhubpipette, which can hold ~ 20ml or more Naphtha :d ?

What's your point on the container, the idea with the jugs juice(does the jug juice ruin the solution?) and the idea with the sous-vide device?

And is it possible to do pull, after pull, after pull?
I mean: Pulling, immediatly filling with naphtha, heating/mixing, immediatly pulling again, immediatly filling with naphtha .........
or does this "stress" the solution?

Is it possible to fill much more naphtha into the solution, to make pulling easier? Or does this effects the process?

Swim never want to clean his kitchen that way again :lol:


Best greetings to our neighbours!


​

 

[Fidelsbeard]

It's not mine (though I do own one, somewhere in my glassware collection).

That picture comes straight from ebay (quick! )

Thanks! Kolbenhubpipette on it's way to me! Cool German word :d

 

[downwardsfromzero]

So you whould basicly advice swim to get
1. Spezialbenzin (no need of taking out low boiling fractions)?
2."Grillanzunder"(which is almost pure Ethanol [Spiritus]) or
3. "Testbenzin", when boiling point is under 80°C or
4. "Terpentinersatz" or
5. Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) and take the low boiling fractions out
And for recrystallise using Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) or Spezialbenzin?

Mostly yes, except for 2. There is also Grillanzunder which is heavy naphtha, as well as one which is fatty alcohols (Pflanzlichen Fettalkohole). These can be found in many of the usual supermarkets. Use the naphtha one. Extracting with ethanol is a significantly different process and you would want to use azeotropic or absolute alcohol for that, not Brennspiritus.

The fatty alcohols would be new territory and require their own method but I suspect they might work. One day solubility tests will be conducted.

Terpentinersatz and Grillanzunder (naphtha/Kohlenwasserstoff) are heavier hydrocarbons and will require recrystallisation with Wundbenzin/Waschbenzin/Reinigungsbenzin.



That Kolbenhubpipette is very cute, maybe I'll get one one day.

 

[Tom Grunder]

So you whould basicly advice swim to get
1. Spezialbenzin (no need of taking out low boiling fractions)?
2."Grillanzunder"(which is almost pure Ethanol [Spiritus]) or
3. "Testbenzin", when boiling point is under 80°C or
4. "Terpentinersatz" or
5. Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) and take the low boiling fractions out
And for recrystallise using Wundbenzin (Benzinum medicinale) or Spezialbenzin?

Mostly yes, except for 2. There is also Grillanzunder which is heavy naphtha, as well as one which is fatty alcohols (Pflanzlichen Fettalkohole). These can be found in many of the usual supermarkets. Use the naphtha one. Extracting with ethanol is a significantly different process and you would want to use azeotropic or absolute alcohol for that, not Brennspiritus.

The fatty alcohols would be new territory and require their own method but I suspect they might work. One day solubility tests will be conducted.

Terpentinersatz and Grillanzunder (naphtha/Kohlenwasserstoff) are heavier hydrocarbons and will require recrystallisation with Wundbenzin/Waschbenzin/Reinigungsbenzin.


Ü
That Kolbenhubpipette is very cute, maybe I'll get one one day.

Thank you Mate

What do you say on the other topics?
:d

 

[pitubo]

What do you say on the other topics?

You should read the FAQ before asking questions that have been discussed many times before. Other common questions that are not directly answered in the FAQ are discussed in the sticky threads at the top of various subforums. Look here and here . Particularly this thread is informative. Don't forget to use the forum search engine.

Good luck!

PS: please also mind basic forum posting ethics, like not unnecessarily quoting all of the text of a posting when you are replying only to a part. It is better to only quote those parts to which you respond, and even then only if this helps the reader to understand the context of your question. If the context or reference is obvious, you do not need to quote wads of text.

Also try not to abuse color tags too much, it does not make your writings more clear. To the contrary, these colors may cause text to become hard to read on some displays.

 

[pitubo]

May I ask, pitubo, is that part of the glass syringe or an attachment? I use a glass syringe but yours is awesome!

Sorry, I missed the question about it being an attachment. It is not, it is a single part all-glass instrument.

With a simple pipette, a piece of flexible tubing and a syringe, the same functionality can easily be improvised. Of course, the pipette should be able to hold a sufficient volume of liquid, many analytical pipettes can hold only very small amounts.

 

[Soaring Eagle]

First, it's spelled naphtha, not naptha or naphta. It's even a german word, so you really have no excuse to misspell it. (sorry to be so pedantic, but this helps future people who also misspell it and may perhaps find this page.)

That was extremely rude :?: ..

 

[downwardsfromzero]

First, it's spelled naphtha, not naptha or naphta. It's even a german word, so you really have no excuse to misspell it. (sorry to be so pedantic, but this helps future people who also misspell it and may perhaps find this page.)

That was extremely rude :?: ..

Dutchman(?) addressing a German. Not so rude in their respective cultures.

 

[pitubo]

First, it's spelled naphtha, not naptha or naphta. It's even a german word, so you really have no excuse to misspell it. (sorry to be so pedantic, but this helps future people who also misspell it and may perhaps find this page.)

That was extremely rude :?: ..

No it was not.

To start, claiming that it was "extremely" rude is just absurd. That would mean that I could not possibly have been more rude than that. Do you seriously doubt my capabilities?

In fact I find your comment more rude than mine. You add no meaningful content to the thread, you do not bother to support your quasi-moralistic blurting with any form of argumentation and the gratuitous abuse of inappropriate adjective is an insult to the reader.

Speaking of meaningful content, you completely ignore that my "extremely rude" correction was a mostly friendly quip, by which I incidentally provided useful information to OP and future users of the search tool. You also ignore all the constructive help that I gave to OP in the remainder of that posting. Not once did I berate him for the dangerous methods that he was proposing.

Anyway, I noticed that you have already been engaging in "constructive discussions" with other, valued members of this board and even quite rudely questioning their contributions while your own are still questionable. I see how much appreciation you have been earning, in your first 10 posts no less. Quite an achievement. Or should I say "contribution"? :thumb_dow

PS: are you a "lol" sockpuppet? You won't ruin my beer, in any case.

Edit: Running Bear, consider yourself outed.

Dutchman(?) addressing a German. Not so rude in their respective cultures.

Well, I can be a bit blunt, even for a dutchman.

But, knowing how much importance many germans attach to Rechtschreibung, and how "Ordnung muss sein", I figured that OP would appreciate my corrections. He seemed to appreciate most of the rest of my reply anyhow.

 

[Cactus Man]

Pressure in certain alchemical situations has a very high likelihood of occurring even when not applying any heat. Its always important to have the lid on any container that have even the smallest chance to build up pressure slightly loosed instead of putting it on tight as a drum.

Usually it seems that the expansion of materials which have yet to break down inside the solution is the root of this type of pressure and by observing the break down of the particles you can tell when the risk of pressure build up has gone away after a certain period of time.

 

[null24]

First off, it's spelled "Merkan, not merkin. There really is no excuse for it, a merkin is a beaver, but a beaver is an Oregonian.

As far as your high-pressure dilemma, Tom (BTW, what is the story behind that username?), it may not be due to evaporating fractions, here in THE STATES, I'm using VM&P naps bought off the shelf and do not know if is contains low boiling fractions as Pitubo mentioned in their post (which enlightened me on that even being a thing), I do not think so it has a BP over 200 deg F.

I have always felt that the pressure increases I've experienced are from temperature increases and corresponding expansion of materials inside the vessel. I like to use vessels that have easily unscrewed tops and small mouth openings.

I'm partial to cider jugs, and can often find them in recycling bins and they come in various sizes for different volume extractions, from 750ml to 2000ml. I like the small neck as they help facilitate pulls, and my cheap turkey glass turkey baster, also off the shelf, fits perfectly into it. Don't judge me. A standard metal screw cap fits on them, and they are easily unscrewed from time to time to release pressure. I have yet to experience problems with these.

As for all the other noise, this is all I have to suggest.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

As for all the other noise, this is all I have to suggest.

Well, null, you've finally proven yourself for the utter, utter b*****d that you are. You know there's no way I'll ever afford the airfare to go enjoy some of that mouthwatering goodness legally.

AND we all know you're not getting those cider jugs 'out of the recycling'.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


(I really am joking, for FSM's sake! )

 

[pitubo]

First off, it's spelled "Merkan, not merkin. There really is no excuse for it, a merkin is a beaver, but a beaver is an Oregonian.

Pardon me sir, but I beg to differ. On this side of the pond, far far away in a country named "blighty" the local dwellers use the word "merkin" as a term of endearment for their long lost relatives who were shipped out west when the local aristocracy got fed up with their presence.

As I am not a native speaker, but living on the british side of the big pond, I am more familiar with the above than with the other connotations of the word merkin. Now that I have been enlightened to its other meanings, I promise to moderate my future use of the term so as to not inadvertently offend when there really is no need to.

Regarding the beaver, I understand that if a merkin is a fake beaver, then an oregonian fake beaver, or an oregonian merkin would look like this:

I can only hope that I will someday begin to have a better understanding of your strange culture. It can be very confusing to us europeans. When we play a game by kicking a ball with our feet, we call it football. When you americans play a game by carrying an egg-shaped object in your hands you call that football. And then some of you dress as an oregonian merkin, like in the above photo. My mind is reeling.

 

[Fidelsbeard]

So a merkin is an American as well as a pubic wig...is that the link, the beaver trade? The term "SWIM" is not necessary really . "Sock puppet"?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I thought we called them merkins because they're a bunch of fake c**ts. (Couldn't resist that one :roll: )


(This is the offensive humour thread, isn't it?)


SWIM = Sockpuppet wearing its merkin

 

[Fidelsbeard]

I thought we called them merkins because they're a bunch of fake c**ts. (Couldn't resist that one :roll: )


(This is the offensive humour thread, isn't it?)


SWIM = Sockpuppet wearing its merkin

That's very good, I was a bit dense...also, thought by sockpuppet you referred to a person using an alias here but "Sockpuppet wearing its merkin":shock: :lol: