Harmala administration via e-cig?

[embracethevoid]

Harmalas have fast become my favourite entheogen, to the exception of even what others would hold sacred and dearest to their hearts. Any avenue of the mind that can be explored with other psychoactives, can be opened and explored via meditating and ingesting a dose of harmalas just about high enough to knock out an elephant.



With that said, I've got my hands on an e-cigarette, the beautiful Innokin ITaste VV V3; with voltage from 3.0V-5.0V control.

I'm wondering how to now use this thing to vape some harmalas? I've dripped some rue extract into the tank dissolved in e-juice and I'm not sure it's actually doing anything, though I only put in enough to get such and such an effect anyway - I put these in to create a makeshift "WTA" type liquid as I'm one of those people who don't feel right vaping nicotine alone.


As far as I can tell, harmala alkaloids have a high boiling point. I do not know their flash point however; for instance the flash point of Piracetam is a good 100 celsius lower than its boiling point making it vaporise very easily.

How would one prepare a harmala alkaloid extract for e-cig administration? I do not really know whether it is soluble in PG or VG or PEG-400 or anything; right now my PG e-juice is a nice tan colour from mixing with the harmalas but I cannot really detect any taste of them when I take a hit.

 

[Lumos]

How much did you add to the fluid? And was it an extract?

 

[embracethevoid]

Around 0.2g freebase extract via Gibran tek.

According to Benzyme I should have salted it as HCl but I don't have any HCl really so meh.

I do not detect any harmaloid taste in the smoke whatsoever; so I dripped some Rhodiola Rosea tincture (Vegetable glycerin based) which smokes a treat and definitely does work.



It's a shame though as I get NZT-48 style effects from harmalas; so this is still an open question. I see other members have been vaping harmala acetate, but no real information in that regard.

 

[Lumos]

Ya I thought it might be difficult with the freebase. After reading this thread I did some searching and found a source for 95% pure harmine HCL; I'm sure you could find it. Anyway that might be a good option to try in an e cig.

 

[Lost travellier]

- Was miraculously get the good luck on this way with Harmalas in e-Cig...

But while i have only my experience of the smoking Harmalas-fb + spearmint + light tobacco in tube.
And this gives itself strangely pleasing sensation of the comfort at the following 10 minutes...

I think that proof of the evaporation Harmalas could be a phosphorescence to internal surface of throat on light from UV-LED flash-light.

 

[Lumos]

wat

 

[embracethevoid]

I have had no luck thus far with FB harmalas.


However this did inspire something else.

Esphand is classically used amongst the ancients & present day Iranians by burning it amongst coals. So how about we construct a vaporizer which rushes air at around 200C-280C through ground harmala? We freebase the harmala using one of the carbonates, like how Yopo is made and vape away.


Through this mechanism there is a good chance that we could vape 3-6g harmala in a session without any ill effects. Who knows! I'm planning to hopefully build my own vape for this. It's been a damn long time coming.



In the meantime I have been vaporising Rhodiola Rosea through my e-cig. It vapes like a dream and as far as I am concerned, smoked tobacco has nothing on the combination of Rhodiola tincture as MAOI + nicotine.

This is coming from someone who normally literally chain smokes tobacco. I had an e-cig before but I gave it away as I thought it sucked. Pure nicotine juice, it had. I could blaze through tank after tank with nothing but a nice nicotine rush, always with the sensation of something just missing.


But now I am totally converted. What's more, Rhodiola seems to take out the whole addictive aspect of smoking. So now I can just vape nicotine + rhodiola so casually, without fiending for a smoke. I can put it down for half a day and assuredly leave it for days if needs be. And this is coming from someone whose first reaction to smoking a tobacco cigarette is to roll another one to wash it down, and then another one to wash that one down ad nauseum (LITERALLY nauseum)!

 

[embracethevoid]

Good news everyone!

It appears that freebase harmala dissolves readily in vegetable glycerin. Either that or it emulsifies or is in some way shape or form, suspended in the liquid without precipitating into a single glob.


So I've been dripping this stuff straight onto my atomiser coil and puffing away. But I don't really feel *too* much of the harmala effects though it definitely feels different to nicotine alone.


I have ceased using Rhodiola Rosea tincture because it gums up very rapidly. It leaves a sticky black residue. This is great for gumming up the stray fraying ends of a wick so it behaves but very bad for atomising long term!



Now the question is, how doth one set up an e-cig to deliver 25-50mg harmala at once? This is my holy grail.

 

[Al-Wasi]

Not understanding why one would want HCl over freebase harmalas?

I realize you said freebase dissolves in VG with no issue but why would HCl even be though to be superior for vaping?

Anyways did you ever succeed in this endeavor. I'm about to pick up a 40watt temperature controlled device and am hoping to find a way to vape harmalas as well as DMT in e liquid.

 

[embracethevoid]

Did not succeed. Further down the line I noted that FB harmala doesn't actually dissolve in VG but it looks like it does. It remains as a precipitate.


Then the thing about using HCL or citrate is, do you really want HCL or citrate in your lungs?

Questionable!

But if you manage to make this work somehow, let us know!

Does FB harmala dissolve in non-polar solvents?

 

[DiMoiTou]

Hi there!

So.. FB harmalas don't dissolve in VG? That's too bad.
Have you tried PG or PEG?

There is a listing for harmalas ejuice on ebay, it says it's using VG as carrier.

 

[Silly(c)One]

Any news on that front ?

I just acquired a eLeaf Pico 75W mod with a Melo III mini sub-ohm tank to replace my GVG for vaping pure DMT, but my favorite use of DMT is in changa (on caapi leaves with FB harmalas) as I use it as a shamanic tool in my practice.

I was wondering about vaping harmalas of course, but also other plants in order to use the vape as a medecine delivery tool...

The thing with harmalas is that their vaporisation temperature is much higher than DMT, at around 300°C if my memory is correct.
Maybe that explains the fact it didn't work with your device, as back in 2013, sub-ohm tank and powerful batteries weren't as readily available ?

 

[fathomlessness]

Then the thing about using HCL or citrate is, do you really want HCL or citrate in your lungs?

Questionable!

Indeed, I thought harmala-hcl had a high boiling point. Would it even vaporize?

I will try to dissolve some harmala FB in some VG & PG and post results later.

 

[Studio1one]

This is on my to do list for next week, I have a load of Rue to extract and clean up to get some real nice clean harmala, then I am going to test it with some 60pg 40vg juice and a 200w temp control Kanger TopBox with a Sigelie Elf tank.

I am going to make 3 mixes,

one pure DMT, one pure Harmalas and some e changa. Will report results up when I've got it all done and tested

 

[Studio1one]

This is on my to do list for next week, I have a load of Rue to extract and clean up to get some real nice clean harmala, then I am going to test it with some 60pg 40vg juice and a 200w temp control Kanger TopBox with a Sigelie Elf tank.

I am going to make 3 mixes,

one pure DMT, one pure Harmalas and some e changa. Will report results up when I've got it all done and tested

I haven't forgotten this, just still purifying my harmalas

 

[Studio1one]

OK an update on this, I am not finished but getting there

to start with I had 1 big batch of harmalas, I dumped the lot into IPA and then filtered with a coffee filter that which wasn't soluble in IPA (a lot), I then put the solids from the filter into acidified water and again filtered out anything that wasn't soluble. From there I did a mini a/b on the acid water and ended up with 2 batches of harmala

The moar sparkly ones in the pyrex dish are those that were soluble in IPA

from there I got 1 ml eliquid and put 100mg of each type into the 1ml e liquid

after heating and agitation, clearly one lot were more soluble than the other

the bottle on the right was the stuff that hadn't been soluble in IPA originally but had been cleaned up again, this left big lumps, the bottle on the left wasn't totally soluble but was a better start.

I took 300mg of these and put into 2ml of e juice and heated, agitated, cooled etc but it still wasn't fully soluble. At this stage I added 1/2 ml of 80% ethanol and got this

Again, better but still some gunk which I was concerned would mess up the atomiser -- so I let it settle with all the gunk at the bottom and pulled off of it with a syringe and got a clear liquid

and left behind

the question is how much of the 300mg was in solution and how much was pulled out, well I poured it onto some scales and found this

but I have no idea how much of that is pg / ethanol and how much is harmala.

So I put it into a heat bath to evaporate

which it is currently still doing.


I also put the batch of harmala that I re x with a mini a/b back into IPA, not everything was soluble again so I put it through a cofee filter and threw away the solids and am evaporating those of at present.


I am not all the way there yet but making progress, what is very clear is your harmala will need to be extra extra clean or you will end up with emulsion not solution and a very gunked up atomiser

 

[Studio1one]

So final results I managed to get what I guess is 400mg of harmala fully into solution in 2ml of pg and about 1/2 ml of 80% Ethanol, often you think it is in solution but if you take a zoomed up pic with a flash you can clearly see that it is an emulsion, but you can't see that with the naked eye.

Vaped at 60W with a kanger 200 TC topbox and it really works.

Is it worth the grief? I don't know, I am going to turn it into e changa and if that works properly then it is definitely worth it, but its a lot of hassle.

Conclusions

1. Harmala need to be ultra cleaned up

2. Even when cleaned up they are not that soluble in PG / VG you need some ethanol too

3. it's a lot of work and hassle to actually get a solution and not an emulsion

final pics

 

[SHroomtroll]

I took some crude harmala extract(200mg or so) and vinegar and mixed.
Then i put it in a coffee filter, i slowly added some warm water to help dissolve the powder.

After the liquid went through im left with a red liquid with no solids.
I evap it and it leaves a nice film, now i put about 1ml 50/50 vg/pg.

After some mixing i get a red e juice that works to vape.
I have made a mix with dmt also, but i havent tried them together yet.