Harmala dosage for mushrooms (psilohuasca)

[maranello551]

Hi guys.
AFOAF is currently working on 2 projects. The first is getting Amanitas to produce an effect (and eventually combine them with psilocybes) and the second is working in finding out what different harmala dosages result in (in terms of experience when combined with mushrooms.

I would greatly apreciate some help with the second. Say for example if one took 1.5g of rue or 2g of rue or 4g of rue with the same dose of mushrooms (say 4g),how would the experiences be qualitatively different from each other?

Or say how would taking 100mg harmine with 4g mushrooms be different from 200mg harmine with that same 4g?

Please refrain from telling me "just try it" if possible. SWIM will. He'd just like some insight on the nature of the chanes brought about by the various level of harmala dosage and how they would affect the constant dose of psilocybin.

Thanks in advance.

 

[maranello551]

Honestly I'm appalled that this has gotten no replies. This is the DMT NEXUS and people here don't have anecdotal information of the varying dosage effects of harmalas on a fixed dose of psilocybin?

Ok. How about if I asked the original question but using DMT as admixture instead of psilocybin? Again. If the DMT dose were fixed, how would the range of Peganum Harmala doses influence each experience (ditto if Harmine isolate were to be used as RIMA/MAOI).

Please do not delete this post addition moderators. As I undersood that people here may not be well versed in psilohuasca information, I am essentially changing the question to be a pharmahuasca question, rather than repeating myself or asking for "answers pleaseeee".

Thank you.

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

K, I have limited info to offer.

Only worked with Harmala HCL, Harmala freebase, and extracted psilocybin crystals - so i cannot relate in the amount of mushrooms in terms of grams. The weight of mushrooms is pretty irrelevant, anyways. Alkaloid content of mushrooms varies a lot based on MANY factors. genetics, growing environment/available nutrients, oxidation amount... etc

I am uncertain of the amount of psilocybin crystals, and in all honesty - the amount of psilocybin doesn't matter if you are concerned with toxicity. You would pretty much have to consume a metric ASS TON of mushrooms to OD.... if that is possible. However, I don't recommend going for the gold on your first try. I, personally, will probably stay around 7 grams of dried mushroom material.

The amount of Harmalas I aim for is somewhere between 100-200 depending on my mood - I'm a skinny dude, so I would imagine that the value could go up depending on weight and tolerance.


As far as experience, can't help ya there other than - be safe, be smart, and if you are uncertain, take your time. It'll be different every single time. To dwell on expectations of results will probably make it more difficult to navigate. Set and setting probably play more of a role than the difference in harmala content.




What do you mean by "to get amanitas to produce an effect?" Are you eating them? How many caps? Are you smoking them?(smoking the skin of the cap is suggested by some, but never did much for me.)

 

[maranello551]

Ok. Thank you sir.

How would you say psilocybin extract with 100mg harmala extract would be different from the same amount of psilocybin but with 200mg of harmala extract?

Also, yes I would be eating the amanitas. I hear from some that they suck and from others that they give the user amazing powers.
I tried them once but it was a bad batch (looked horrible) and it did nothing at any dose.

 

[corpus callosum]

K, I have limited info to offer.

Only worked with Harmala HCL, Harmala freebase, and extracted psilocybin crystals - so i cannot relate in the amount of mushrooms in terms of grams. The weight of mushrooms is pretty irrelevant, anyways. Alkaloid content of mushrooms varies a lot based on MANY factors. genetics, growing environment/available nutrients, oxidation amount... etc

I am uncertain of the amount of psilocybin crystals, and in all honesty - the amount of psilocybin doesn't matter if you are concerned with toxicity. You would pretty much have to consume a metric ASS TON of mushrooms to OD.... if that is possible. However, I don't recommend going for the gold on your first try. I, personally, will probably stay around 7 grams of dried mushroom material.

The amount of Harmalas I aim for is somewhere between 100-200 depending on my mood - I'm a skinny dude, so I would imagine that the value could go up depending on weight and tolerance.


As far as experience, can't help ya there other than - be safe, be smart, and if you are uncertain, take your time. It'll be different every single time. To dwell on expectations of results will probably make it more difficult to navigate. Set and setting probably play more of a role than the difference in harmala content.

May I ask how you got psilocybin crystals?

7g of dried shrooms could be a very hefty dose, even without harmalas. This is not an exact science, and in order to avoid potentially overwhelming psychological effects, know the general potency of your fungus and start slow and work up.

 

[maranello551]

That's fairly subjective. SWIM really enjoyed 7g mushrooms with 2g Rue

 

[maranello551]

I don't know if I'm phrasing my question so that people understand.

Same psilocybin (or DMT) dose. Different harmala dose. What are the differences.

AKA:

2g mushrooms 1g rue

vs

2g mushrooms 2g rue

vs

2g mushrooms 4g rue

 

[cyb]

Honestly I'm appalled that this has gotten no replies.

Why don't you test it out and tell us? :?

Not many here mess around with Aminitas and demanding answers every few hours will not get you very far.
Try some patience or experiment yourself and report back.

 

[Entheogenerator]

Honestly I'm appalled that this has gotten no replies.

Why don't you test it out and tell us? :?

Not many here mess around with Amanitas and demanding answers every few hours will not get you very far.
Try some patience or experiment yourself and report back.

I'm with Cyb on this one. Particularly because AcaciaConfusedYah already hit the nail on the head with this...

As far as experience, can't help ya there other than - be safe, be smart, and if you are uncertain, take your time. It'll be different every single time. To dwell on expectations of results will probably make it more difficult to navigate. Set and setting probably play more of a role than the difference in harmala content.

The only thing I can tell you with any sort of certainty is that 2g mushrooms + 4g rue is likely to produce much stronger effects than than 2g mushrooms + 2g rue, which is likely to produce much stronger effects than 2g mushrooms + 1g rue.

 

[pitubo]

If you search the forum a bit, you'll find plenty of information regarding lower and higher dosages of harmalas. There is a difference between having your MAO enzyme only partially inhibited versus having it swamped with MAOIs.

With all MAO doses, be careful with mushrooms, as even a little will double the effects of mushrooms. A dose of harmala that is psychedelic in itself can have a huge effect on mushrooms.

Enjoy and report back your experiences is you will!

 

[form is emptiness]

I regard up to 100mg freebase Harmaloids with up to about 5g dried cubensis as a max load. As a first off experiment I suggest 70mg Harmaloid freebase and 3g cubensis. I would absolutely avoid combining Harmaloids with Amanita - simply because there is very little data out there regarding the safety of such a combination.

 

[maranello551]

I was thinking of perhaps (if amanitas turn out to be as "interdimensional" as some say) letting SWIM dose the amanitas first and after he starts feeling the first effects, dosing the psilohuasca (either rue or harmine isolate + mushrooms tea)

Any insight on positive amanita effects from experience (either used alone or preferably in conjunction with psilocybes)?

Also do you fine people have any insight on how harmine isolate dose as an maoi would differ from full spectrum rue as the maoi in doses of comparabile strength in terms of qualitative differences in the experiences (visuals, bodyload, headspace, etc.)

Thanks guys. Just to be clear, SWIM does experiment regularly. He does not just ask a bunch of questions and he does use te data provided for him in experimentation. Mushrooms have so far been his greatest ally having used them quite extensively. Only 2 successful Aya journeys so far.

 

[shanedudddy2]

You are combining both Amanita's, Rue and Psilocybin mushrooms? o_0
That sounds like a recipe for disaster if I have ever heard one...and i`ve taken tons of crazy combinations.
Please, just stick with either Amanitas, or Rue + Psilocybin.
Regarding dosage of rue, in my experimentation, I`d suggest 2/3rds (or maybe even less) of what you would use for Aya.
I don't like giving hard and fast figures of grams for a person, as it largely depends on preparation (eg. eating raw vs water extraction), and the individuals tolerance.

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

May I ask how you got psilocybin crystals?

7g of dried shrooms could be a very hefty dose, even without harmalas. This is not an exact science, and in order to avoid potentially overwhelming psychological effects, know the general potency of your fungus and start slow and work up.

I played around with IPA and ethynol extractions. I've tried a few different variations. I'm sure that it isn't 100% pure by any means. I haven't messed around with methanol extractive yet.

I used to be a cultivator. When I realized I could grow far more efficiently than I could eat, I hung it up but continued playing around with various consumption methods on an infrequent basis.

From my experience and observations, I can confidently say that there are many factors that can play a role on a mushroom's psilocybin content. A few things I did to achieve consistency was to grow stains that I had cloned that had proven(to me) to produce alkaloids that Gave a very pleasant experience- no matter how much I ate.

I take "×" amount of dried material. perform extraction - leaving a small amount of liquid ethanol to prevent accelerated oxidation.

depending on how much liquid is left, I can estimate the amount of alkaloids I have in the solution depending on "x"

If I determine that I like the experience of 5 grams on a certain batch, and "x" was 20g, and I have 30ml of solution, I can assume that 30 ÷ 4 = 7.5ml of solution should be similar to 5g dried.

 

[Guyomech]

I have direct experience here. 3G of powdered psilocybin preceded 15 min earlier- that's the most I'd take without a sitter. Double that dose of psilocybin, still with 100mg rue (cooked down into a capsule) was one of my most profound visionary experiences ever. No nausea, no bad side effects except for a couple broken bones (hence earlier comment about sitter)

And:

Patience.

 

[SHroomtroll]

Ive done liberty caps and rue countless times and cubes with various forms of harmala aswell.

I def prefer it to just shrooms since its alot more immersive and longer duration, however i cant say harnalas potentiate the mushrooms much it just makes it more drawn out and dreamy.

Once i did a few grams of amanitas on a tail end pharma trip and that was mindblowing!!
I have a trip report somewhere here.

 

[maranello551]

Hello guys. For some reason my posts are disappearing so I guess I'll just keep asking 0.0

Basically swim's had a few rue/mushroom experiences and is to have a few caapi/mushroom (caapi resin extract) shortly. I know I may be getting ahead of myself as swim's not yet experienced the vine, but I was wondering if there is anything that rue can add to an already caapi-boosted/modified mushroom experience that adding more caapi could not.

Would taking a couple grams of rue with the standard caapi dose change the nature of the experience or just make it stronger (perhaps in the way that just taking more caapi would)? I ask because I hear from many a post that rue does not really have a "personality" and is rather just useful for inhibiting MAO, while with caapi, the higher it is dosed, the more of the "spirit's" character comes out.

Any insight? Swim's very much looking forward to trying this famed caapi. I was thinking first 50g alone, then ~100g alone, and then slowly adding growing mushroom doses to my preferred caapi dose. Is this reasonable?

Thanks.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

What exactly are you looking for from the desired experiences you present?

 

[maranello551]

Interesting question. Well from the addiction of rue to the mushrooms, swim finds that the mushrooms time-dilatori effects are about doubled to quadrupled which allow for essentially 2-4 times as much "perceived trip-time" plus the addition of about 2-3 hours actual consensus time extension. This also gives more time to analyze and interpret the visione which are changed in of themselves as well. Swim finds that with rue, the visuals are just even more impressive though not as distracting in mature from the lesson to be learned. The visuals tend to seem less "digital"/"futuristic" and more "digital"/"ancient" if that makes sense... Less bright neon colors, and more alteration the the way surfaces of objects look. Additionally, swim's had some strange "telepathic" experiences on mushrooms alone in the past while starting straight into the pupils of a friend who had taken the same mushrooms. With rue, this telepathic effect was no longer limited to the times i looked into the eyes of others. Physical proximity sufficed though so far it has only worked while in proximity of others who ha taken either mushrooms or mushrooms and rue. This telepathy with the rue was also of a different nature to that from just mushrooms. It was in the from of what would be called an "auditory hallucination". Swim could clearly hear the voice in the heads (one at a time) of those he was with it was an actual voice (loud and clear). This has happened with animals (ducks), though not in the from of voice but rather thought. Swim was at a park walking towards a few mallard ducks after taking his psilohuasca (2 hours in) and he felt the duck telling him to come no closer through thought. When swim asked it why (through thought), the duck informed him that he/she had young with him/her. The grass was tall and shortly after , what do you know?..a few baby ducks pop out into vision when the grass got shorter...

Maybe its delusion. But these experiences have been rather consistent.

I know what rue adds. Its a beautiul tool set to add to the inventory, though an acquired taste if one were to use it recreationally. Very practically useful however.

I would like to see what caapi has to offer and what i can offer to it. If it is half what rue has added to my experiences, its worth the effort to me. I hear even better things about caapi than I do rue. Maybe its just easier to work with in terms of experience, maybe it has more shamanic power so to say. I'd like to find out.

Whatever the case is, if it turns out to be different from rue and swim finds it to have desirable qualities, he would like to add it to his rue psilohuasca brews in order to basically stack their power and have all their useful aspects available simultaneously (aka upgrade the utility belt of what are beautiful abilities.)

 

[jamie]

I actually prefer rue to vine. None of this stuff about caapi having a better personality or being more shamanic has ever been true for me, and I have drunk my fair share of both. I have actaully found the purge from rue to be easier with more flow than with vine believe it or not. I used to just feel sick with vine and not be able to vomit. Haoma was for me what vine seems to be for others. I love ayahuasca, I just seem to have a deeper relationship with peganum harmala.