Harmala + Iboga not good

[Danko]

Hi all,

I am writing all my not good experiences so others may not want to do it. Here

I took about 150 mg of free base harmala, much below my dose for pharma.

I took about 15g of Ibgoa root bark.

I have limited experience with Iboga, two full floods, heart rate went down, about 60 beats per minute, but it was not measured, my sitter told me,

When I took it as previously mentioned, it was a test, obviously I was working with very low amounts since I have high tolerance for harmalas.

Suddenly my heart beat raced a lot, my sitter said it was 110 x min. My heart was to jump out of the chest. It lasted for about half hour. I got to mild visual, not clear stage. All in all it was very frightening. I will never do it again.

In my post on harmalas and dehydration I wrote of its dangers.

I think harmalas are the most dangerous alkaloid. I would not mix it even with mushrooms, even though some people do it, but it was never said how much of what.

If one has high tolerance of harmalas, vs those who have low, even in pharma,nth owe two groups experience different journeys.

I woul be very conservative of Tanya combination of harmalas including cannabis.

After all what would be the reason to do it? With Iboga , since I had little amount, I thought I would get to sub flood level, but I didn't at all.

And with mushrooms, I never seen the numbers, so again what would be the reason to do it? If you aim to heroic level,mwould you risk taking harmalas? I wouldn't.

Best Danko

 

[jamie]

I have an auto immune disease that causes among other things hypersensitivty to certain stimuli..some lights, sounds etc..psychedelic drugs are definatly one. In the past I could not understand how I can be that sensitive and it be consistent until my dr painted a better picture for me. Other people should not use me as a guide for common doses, but it's a good example of neurodiversity being a factor. I often need half the dose of anything others are taking..2cb, ketamine, 5-MeO-DMT, LSD, MDMA, MDA, DXM, iboga all have gone this way for me.

So many sick and weak ppl are drawn to iboga, and I feel it is underrecaognized as a treatment for auto immune diseases, fibromyalgia and neuropathy..neuroinflammation. However this presents a vast difference in use vs bwiti innitiation and religious ceremony. It's a lot of sick run down people who probly cant handle higher doses. This is where I see ibogaine going because of where I see psychedelics going, and where I see ketamine and NMDA antagonists going. Ketamine has helped me so much with neuropathy when I lost feeling in my right foot, but ibogaine sustained for months..not day..not weeks.

It's part of the future of ibogaine and I dont think the flood protocall would be safe for this.

I would like to see the high doses of all entheogens be available but in the hands of well trained individuals.

If we are going to talk about high dosing in general, one issue to address is where and with who? Therapists like Andrew Feldmar prefer 1200 mics of LSD for patients..he himself takes half when being therapist. This is not afaik MAPS protocall. That work had nothing to do with MAPS.

My point is that dosing protocalls are currenty and probly will be an issue for some time. There is no consensus. I feel like a lot of people put stock in everything Mckenna said and really took it to heart..esp in relation to how one should dose, and what psychedelics were best for visionary content etc..he was all high dose only tryptamines..and second hand accounts place him also microdosing acid through the 90's. Now people are realizing some of what he said is not useful and people are finding value in lower doses and microdoses.

Microdosing LSD at around 10 mics has been an invaluble tool in my life, to deal with at times crippling anxiety, radiating fibromyalgia that at times threw me into deep depression etc..it seems to controll inflammation. Its allowed me to maintin a full time job right through pushing 50 hours a week etc..

We should be studying the hell out of all doses of these things and learn from each other.

 

[jamie]

However nobody asked me about the actual psychedelic experience. So here it goes:

- it was nothing, I had some visuals, blurred for shot rat time, emotionally was not very healing afterwords, I had no problems walking, in simple words it was not anything like even sub flood of let's say 300mg of ibogaine, what was my aim.

All in all I see no use oh this combo, it doesn't amplifies the Iboga. So if you have little to do a full flood, or even sub harmalas are not going to compensate for it, as I heard can do for mushrooms.

Best
Danko

That is fascinating. I bet gene polymorphisms dictate a number of metabolic pathways for ibogaine. I entered into what I just called an iboga hole for a day on 4g. It was like full on lucid dreaming, physically very similar to ketamine and open eye visions(visuals too) for a the peak which lasted many hours. I was weak for days and then felt amazing.

 

[dmusicaltrancistor]

on the topic of McKenna and dosing i think a good thing to keep in mind when listening to McKenna is that he went crazy on his expiditions in the amazon at one point his brother, crew, shamans, etc had to let him be psychotic in the jungle for a while because he was eating too much psychedelics.

His rise in popularity i attribute to him being one of a select few that were "out there" so much that they didn't care what anyone thought about how they were portraying these "medicines" and their opinions were not really shared by their peers in the community at that time, but to the uneducated public it was new and fascinating made a lucrative buisness for those involved ie; Mckenna, Timothy Leary, etc.

so my thoughts are when listening to these guys take their advice with a grain of salt because they were kinda reckless and not the best role models for a new generation of psychonaughts

-dm

 

[Bancopuma]

on the topic of McKenna and dosing i think a good thing to keep in mind when listening to McKenna is that he went crazy on his expiditions in the amazon at one point his brother, crew, shamans, etc had to let him be psychotic in the jungle for a while because he was eating too much psychedelics.

His rise in popularity i attribute to him being one of a select few that were "out there" so much that they didn't care what anyone thought about how they were portraying these "medicines" and their opinions were not really shared by their peers in the community at that time, but to the uneducated public it was new and fascinating made a lucrative buisness for those involved ie; Mckenna, Timothy Leary, etc.

so my thoughts are when listening to these guys take their advice with a grain of salt because they were kinda reckless and not the best role models for a new generation of psychonaughts

-dm

So it was Dennis McKenna in particular that actually had a crazy episode, following experimentation with ayahuasca vine and mushrooms...it wasn't due to the amount they were eating over time (i.e. chronic use), it was one particular experiment using the vine and mushrooms that caused this break from reality experienced by Dennis.

It is worth noting though that Terrence had a later experience with a heroic dose of Psilocybe cubensis that was so harrowing that he swore of heroic doses for good from then on.