Harmala overdose.

[Shadowman-x]

Last night, I put an unweighed amount of harmalas under my tongue, and smoked a joint also with harmalas in it.

I was fine throughout the night, I dosed at around 9:30-9:45. Played video games with my brother until 12:30.
Upon walking home i realized i was starting to get cold. Really cold. Really fucking cold. When I got home and lay down in bed, the tremors began.

That was one of the most nightmarishly unpleasent exerpeinces of my life. My body would not stop shaking. I was sent to a purgatory realm, a bardo hell realm. I was sweating, shaking, nauseous. My whole body kept having these tremors go through it. And the dreams. visions. Strange, hard to explain dreams, intersparsed with shaking and extreme nausea...prophetic dreams about armageddon, a 5:1 ratio, flying old WW2 planes...

Weigh your harmalas.
Don't fuck around.
I never felt physically in any danger. I knew I was safe. I knew many peopel had eaten many more harmalas and survived. My life was not in any danger. However, that was incredibly, incredibly unpleasent.
INCREDIBLY unpleasent.

 

[universecannon]

That sucks you had a rough trip.. weigh em out next time my friend!
eye balling harmalas can be real tricky

The tremors to me can be anywhere from really great to very unpleasant.. Overdoing it a few times has led me to some horrible nausea and some places where i was certain my sanity would never return, which got extremely uncomfortable at times..but once the peak passes this begins to fade away. Its like your consciousness splits in a million directions, into the strangest areas of the imagination- which can really discombobulate your sense of 'I' at times, but then you slowly condense back into your self.. I think vocalizing, and sometimes even moving around a bit, helps a lot in steering through those moments. Purging usually ends the nausea for me as well

 

[SnozzleBerry]

As I mentioned in chat, I would posit that the extreme reaction you experienced was as a result of taking the harmalas sublingually. I do not get nauseas from harmalas, even in the 300-400mg range when I take them orally. However, the one time I tried sublingual harmalas at 50mg, the most pronounced efects I experienced was nausea and some of the cold-sweat feeling you mention. It was incredibly unpleasant and since then I have continued to dose my harmalas either orally or by smoking them. I don't know what it is about sublingual harmala extracts...mine was from rue, perhaps caapi would be more gentle, but I personally have no interest in finding out.

 

[joedirt]

As I mentioned in chat, I would posit that the extreme reaction you experienced was as a result of taking the harmalas sublingually. I do not get nauseas from harmalas, even in the 300-400mg range when I take them orally. However, the one time I tried sublingual harmalas at 50mg, the most pronounced efects I experienced was nausea and some of the cold-sweat feeling you mention. It was incredibly unpleasant and since then I have continued to dose my harmalas either orally or by smoking them. I don't know what it is about sublingual harmala extracts...mine was from rue, perhaps caapi would be more gentle, but I personally have no interest in finding out.

This is interesting. I've noticed sometimes Changa (with added harmalas) gives nausea when smoked several times in a row. I wonder if it's because of the fast delivery to the brain from vaporizing and sublingual? Whereas when you eat it the absorption is much slower and likely easier to adjust to.

I still need to get down with some Pharma one of these days...I just hate nausea...I mean I hate it. If it makes me nausea once I'll probably stick to shrooms.

 

[SWIMfriend]

...I have continued to dose my harmalas either orally or by smoking them. I don't know what it is about sublingual harmala extracts...

Physiologically, dosing by smoking should be the same as sublingual dosing--neither method passes the dose through the liver (as an oral dose is passed).

Might it be that harmalas don't get absorbed well through the lungs? Or that they are altered somehow by prolonged contact with saliva sublingualy?

 

[bringeroflight]

As I mentioned in chat, I would posit that the extreme reaction you experienced was as a result of taking the harmalas sublingually. I do not get nauseas from harmalas, even in the 300-400mg range when I take them orally. However, the one time I tried sublingual harmalas at 50mg, the most pronounced efects I experienced was nausea and some of the cold-sweat feeling you mention. It was incredibly unpleasant and since then I have continued to dose my harmalas either orally or by smoking them. I don't know what it is about sublingual harmala extracts...mine was from rue, perhaps caapi would be more gentle, but I personally have no interest in finding out.

Wow, well that's strange. swim's experience is exactly the opposite. He always gets nausea from swallowing harmalas, but never when taking them sublingually.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

...I have continued to dose my harmalas either orally or by smoking them. I don't know what it is about sublingual harmala extracts...

Physiologically, dosing by smoking should be the same as sublingual dosing--neither method passes the dose through the liver (as an oral dose is passed).

Might it be that harmalas don't get absorbed well through the lungs? Or that they are altered somehow by prolonged contact with saliva sublingualy?

I would guess it has more to do with my smoking method perhaps? I mean, I have noticed when I smoke too much pure harmaline/harmaline at once, I do get similar nausea to sublingual. However, when smoking pure harmalas or harmalas on non-weed herbs, I tend to take small puffs over a long duration. When I smoke harmalas with weed, I definitely smoke more than I do of pure harmalas, but I never get nausea, which I assume is as a result of the qualities of the ganja.

 

[jamie]

thats very typical of a higher dose of harmalas shadow..there seems to be a fine line between a good visionary dose and a harmala-blast off for me, the latter leaving me much more nauseated and shaky, cold etc..and sublingual is definatily more active as it goes straight to the brain. I like sublingual dosing but I prefer oral for harmalas.

Mixing harmalas with cannabis is also a big nono for me..it is a very unpleasant experience. Interesting things happen with that combo but its just sooo overwhelming and disorienting. The only time I will combine them is when I take the harmalas maybe 2 hours or so after I smoke cannabis.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Mixing harmalas with cannabis is also a big nono for me..it is a very unpleasant experience. Interesting things happen with that combo but its just sooo overwhelming and disorienting. The only time I will combine them is when I take the harmalas maybe 2 hours or so after I smoke cannabis.

I haven't encountered any unpleasantness...maybe some mild disorientation but nothing uncomfortable.

About a month ago, I was gravity-bubblering harmalas and weed and found that within the immediate 30 seconds following the inhalation, I had to sit down due to the incredible head rush...it was like being hit with a freight train. My eyes started fluttering...I don't know how else to describe it, like I could literally feel my eardrums begin to vibrate and it made my whole head/being feel like it was vibrating back and forth very rapidly but at a low pitch. It was slightly unsettling, but somewhat enjoyable. I have never experienced anything like it and can't imagine what could have/would have happened if I had added anything else to that mix.

 

[gazal]

S.Rue and weed mixes well in the opinion of many people I know: harmalas seem to remove the psychotic features of the cannabis high.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Beyond tremors, I always kind of like it when I get the grunts: my head jerks to one side or the other involuntarily and a guttural moan escapes my lips.

Glad to hear you're doing well... I find the really sickening doses of harmalas are often the most visionary, though the sickness does tend to fade with time during regular use.

I guess I just derive a strange pleasure from it. But it's also why I absolutely can't stand the taste...

 

[prottel]

Beyond tremors, I always kind of like it when I get the grunts: my head jerks to one side or the other involuntarily and a guttural moan escapes my lips.

Never experienced that one before. On higher doses I tend to experience some kind of muscle contraction in my arms. It seems to center around the middle of a muscle on my lower arm. When the harmala+dmt part is high, the contraction can make me jump in surprise. The trembling has mostly gone now. I do experience it now and then, but it is pretty short lasting.

I find that adding dmt makes the experience stronger, but it also cuts down the time it takes to be up and running.

 

[polytrip]

Beyond tremors, I always kind of like it when I get the grunts: my head jerks to one side or the other involuntarily and a guttural moan escapes my lips.

Glad to hear you're doing well... I find the really sickening doses of harmalas are often the most visionary, though the sickness does tend to fade with time during regular use.

I guess I just derive a strange pleasure from it. But it's also why I absolutely can't stand the taste...

At what doses do you get these effects?

 

[jamie]

^ I have never had anything like that. All I get is transient nausea and slight tremors at times..I dont even purge for some reason.

Polytrip I think you might have a larger tolerance to harmalas. If you arent having those effects at 100g than I would be surprised. I know you asked about taking something like 200g. If I took 200g of harmalas I would be off the planet. 100g is a very deep visionary dose for me.

How long are you brewing for?

 

[polytrip]

I mostly take extracts, tinctures or pure alkaloids, but when i brew caapi myself i usually boil for a day or so (morning till evening), so that would be around 12 hours give or take.

I don't know if i have a tolerance to it. I do notice a big difference between 60 or 80 grams of caapi, and rue has quite strong effects for me when i take more than 3 grams.
At +/-90 grams of caapi i felt like i was just on the edge of something big, so maybe taking a dose of júst a little more would give me a deep visionary journey.

But it's true that caapi rarely gives strong physical effects for me and at 90 grams i'm completely able to walk a stair.
For syrian rue i'm much more sensitive on the other hand and i also get stronger physical effects from it. With rue i have to be carefull not to take too much or i will throw-up.

It looks like i'm more sensitive to some specific alkaloids like harmaline than others.

 

[jamie]

harmaline is more powerful for me as well. I actaully really like rue and find it very psychedelic and visionary. I would like to try harmaline alone.

 

[polytrip]

Well, the reason why i'm becoming more interested in the higher doses is because of the simmilarity's between harmala's and iboga.
if you realy want to have an intense experience with iboga you'd have to take amounts of it where you'll feel strong physical effects and where you'll be unable to walk normally.

With caapi, people mostly use it for MAO-inhibition but what if caapi would have the same powers iboga has, but that most of us just haven't gotten to that point because we either used it purely for MAO-inhibition or we thaught we already had quite deep experiences with it in doses around 100 grams?

The physical effects are a good reason why people would be carefull with harmala's and wouldn't feel comfortable with doses much higher than the 'normal' dose. But given the simmilarity's with iboga, there is a reason to assume that the doses where physical effects start to become unpleasant, you could also start to have realy interesting experiences.

What mis minxx is saying seems to confirm this suspicion.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Last night, I put an unweighed amount of harmalas under my tongue, and smoked a joint also with harmalas in it.

this is kind of vague, what material was it? harmala alkaloids vary in their activity and harmaline has been reported to be very unpleasant in large amounts.

If this is peganum sourced alkaloid material then i am not surprised.

The cold sounds like hypotensive issues, not unknown from these things.

They often cause tremors and spasms in large doses.