Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue

[bluejay]

no salt boys it just pollutes the product...

 

[endlessness]

not it doesnt.. If you saturate with salt, yes then harmalas hcl and excess salt will precipitate, but by redissolving in more fresh water and then adding a base, the salt will remain dissolved in the water and only the harmalas freebase will crash out

plus it seems that its exactly in the salt step that the possibly toxic or at least unwanted alkaloids (Vasicine and vasicinone) are removed, according to chemical analysis

 

[WSaged]

I just read the Extraction tek at the beginning of this thread, so I'm a bit late to the game, but I have a simple question.

If one was to use B.Cappi rather than S.Rue, would this tek extract both the Harmine & Harmaline (or, both of the MAOI's in the vine)?

Also, Would this extract the THH with the MAOI's? Or is a separate tek necessary to extract THH?


Thanks!!

WS

 

[bluejay]

Its doesnt make a nasty product just to raise the ph and precipitate out crystals..Thats a fact..

There is a lot of misinformation out there,,it took me about 8 months to figure that out...

It takes about 7 gallons to wash a "load of crystals".....

 

[endlessness]

Its doesnt make a nasty product just to raise the ph and precipitate out crystals..Thats a fact..

There is a lot of misinformation out there,,it took me about 8 months to figure that out...

It takes about 7 gallons to wash a "load of crystals".....

I dont understand what you are saying... you said salt makes the product impure. I said salt does not make a product impure as it is removed in the final step. Maybe you mean that the manske salt precipitation final product is too crude, which I agree, but remember that there is the added freebase precipitation at the end, plus one can repeat the whole process as many times as desired(acidify, let decant and throw away what precipitates, saturate with salt, keep the precipitated, redissolve, basify, get what precipitated). The steps get rid of different kinds of impurities. The chemistry is pretty sound here, I dont know what you can argue.

If you have a suggestion that one gets a good and pure yield, then why dont you share the information instead of just saying there's a lot of misinformation? Do you want people to keep acting on misinformation such as you say you were in the past?

 

[bluejay]

grind seed,,,soak in HCL water,,,filter,,, raise ph to 12 via lye water,,,let stand,,, vacuum pump out water,,,,pour in ph 12 again 2 more times,,,settleing after each time,,, now pour in straight hcl,,crystals dissolve and realse junk that was captured within them,,hcl water will be dark again,,,,raise ph to 12 and just keep doin this,,,take about a week and a half to run one jar,,hence running many at a time...

 

[endlessness]

grind seed,,,soak in HCL water,,,filter,,, raise ph to 12 via lye water,,,let stand,,, vacuum pump out water,,,,pour in ph 12 again 2 more times,,,settleing after each time,,, now pour in straight hcl,,crystals dissolve and realse junk that was captured within them,,hcl water will be dark again,,,,raise ph to 12 and just keep doin this,,,take about a week and a half to run one jar,,hence running many at a time...

ok so you make an acid soak, but no boiling? Filtering, isnt it a pain in the ass also (thats why SWIM decants several times, makes filtering much easier later on. but maybe you have a suggestion for filters or equipments to make this particular filtering easier) ?

Then what do you mean pour in ph 12 again? You mean mixing the freebase alkaloids in ph 12 and letting them settle again ? Or raising the ph of the solution where the alkaloids were taken from again?

Then redissolving them in hcl, and then basifying again? but what use is it if one doesnt at least decant when doing the hcl, as it will always be the same alkaloids/impurities being redissolved and crashing out? or am I missing something?

what kind of yields and what kind of purity of final product one can get with this?

 

[bluejay]

How isnt this clear?...The crystals that crash out are now sitting in ph 12 water..suck it out ...then put more in..keeping doing this till its clear again..then you hcl it so when you crash it out the water is clean to "hold" junk that was in it...

You need a digital ph tester and a vacuum pump to do the bluejay tek...

 

[bluejay]

When drying on a hotplate..tip one end up slightly and the excess lye{whick is now bakingsoda thru water and air oxidation) will float to the higher end so you can scrap it off if you want a purer product..IT IS HARMLESS NOW THOUGH...

I actually put 1/2 TRUE baking soda with the dry crystals to ensure there is 200 milligrams being a machine is used to cap them...

Even the smallest gel cap will still hold 300 + milligrams and is to high to sell to the public...

Harmala overdose is not fun and is a dizzy sickening vertigo...(400 milligram dose spread out thru the day...

Never exceed 200 in 24 hrs...

 

[endlessness]

thank you for explaining. Why choosing the harmalas HCL as a final product and not the freebase?

so what is the dose that you consider a good one from your product?

btw there is still a disadvantage (at least some might think) in your tek which is the use of HCL and caustic soda. Some people are not happy with that. SWIM is very happy he can make his extraction with food safe products, just water, vinegar, sea salt and sodium carbonate (which can be made from putting sodium bicarbonate in the oven). No nasty hcl fumes or caustic soda burn risks.

I cant see much the quality from those pictures as its in a solution and there is the colour contrast. Such as in SWIM's picture earlier on, also one cant see but after drying it was a very light brown. If he re-did the process once or twice, he could probably get very pure product. Also in SWIM's technique he could incorporate your pH 12 wash, using sodium carbonate instead. Maybe will try that sometime

 

[bluejay]

My product is in freebase form?? and you will not have enough room to change the ph with those weak chems.You will be using many gallons of water.thats why..

I have washed up to 10 times and have seen pure yellow harmaline settle but this is no way profitable to do and keep the price low..

I decided to release this because you need expensive lab equipment and there is alot of work for your average joe..

If you can get almost a pure product with only 2 washes, I will give you my lab and grow room equipment:d

 

[endlessness]

well you said yourself to raise only to pH 12. You can do that with sodium carbonate, and you dont need many gallons of water, you need more sodium carbonate per water, and not so much actually. For the acidifying step, its true that vinegar doesnt lower the pH as much as hcl but why would you want extremely low pH? dilute acetic acid can make a high enough pH to guarantee all the alkaloids are in acetate water-soluble form. I see no reason why you would want more than that.

As for the 2 washes, SWIM only did one re-run on his process and from dark brown got to very light brown. Maybe one or two more would get something quite pure, but this is all speculation until he actually does it, obviously.. But honestly, so far he feels no need as its pure enough as is, more would be just perfectionism and general lab skills practicing. Sometime but not right now

 

[bluejay]

my choice of chems has no bearing on the final product OR its safety...So to each there own..enjoy playing..:d

 

[soulfood]

So SWIM redissolved 6g of brown impure harmalas in 1 liter of warm water+vinegar, and let decant overnight. Quite some dirt fell to the bottom. So he poured the top part out, and he filtered the bottom part (was not so bad this time) and threw away. Then he had a very nice clear liquid to play with.

He warmed up the clean reddish colour liquid and added 360g salt. It all changed to a more opaque cream colour. Quite a bit of the salt did not dissolve, but he was not worried as later on he would get rid of it again. He let decant overnight in the fridge.

It had a quite beautiful transparency to it. Some of the harmalas stayed on the top, so SWIM just filtered the whole thing. This time filtering with his improvised vacuum contraption was much easier. The filtered hcl harmalas + salt looked light brown with some yellow tint. He didnt dry it completely as he would redissolve in more water anyways.

Then SWIM redissolved the harmala salts in warm water. The colour changed to this beautiful translucent red.

He then added maybe a couple of teaspoons of sodium carbonate, and the colour changed immediately, very beautiful transformation somehow, first yellowish then to this creamy opaque colour, as the harmalas precipitated as freebase.

He let decant overnight. The liquid was bright and transparent fluorescent yellow, and on the bottom there was a nice light brown/grey layer of the freebase harmalas.

Now he filtered (was very easy with his improvised vacuum filter) and is letting dry. It looks light brown, when its dry he will take pics. Maybe nothing like some perfect white crystals like dmt, but he is very happy as he know the whole process was with safe products, no weird chemicals, and he can ingest happily and have a nice pharmahuasca trip at some point

Specially this second time around when he repeated the whole process with the crude harmalas, it was very nice to work with, the colours were changing beautifully, the filtering was easy. SWIM enjoyed this

So of what I've seen so far this seems like the most approvable method for a home extraction. Great report by the way

SWIM recently yielded 2.5g of fairly impure (pure enough ) alks from some 100g's rue after losing a fair bit to alcohol and various other mistakes. He shall be trying this again fairly soon and shall probably be using this report as his guide in hope of a larger yield and a more pure product.

SWIM's quite happy using this method as it is but does anyone have anything useful to add to any of this?

Of particular interest is this talk of egg whites. Some folk talk of their utilization of egg whites in these kind of extractions with a certain frustration about others who don't use them. As eggs are pretty cheap and all that, I can only imagine there is a more logistical reason for people not using them? I can only guess it doesn't work so well as most would rather spend time in filtering hell than throwing down some eggs. But then again some people do approve.

What's the deal here?

 

[prottel]

I can only guess it doesn't work so well as most would rather spend time in filtering hell than throwing down some eggs. But then again some people do approve.

I think it is inertia. People just don't want to try new things. It has to be talked about again and again, and in the end it might pick up speed. Then you got the ball rolling

And yes, it does work well.

 

[soulfood]

Well SWIM will certainly test this on a portion of his next extract. Seems a bit silly to not even try it at least.

What's stopping other parts of the extraction working it's way into the omlette?

 

[prottel]

What's stopping other parts of the extraction working it's way into the omlette?

Some may end up in the "omelette", although it is not that much. Perhaps 10%. I guess it depends on how much liquid you have when making the omelette.

What I do after filtering out the omelette, is that I add more warm water to the omelette while filtering. This should pull out most of the actives if it is there. I just taste what comes through. If it is bitter, then there is actives coming out.

 

[soulfood]

What's stopping other parts of the extraction working it's way into the omlette?

Some may end up in the "omelette", although it is not that much. Perhaps 10%. I guess it depends on how much liquid you have when making the omelette.

What I do after filtering out the omelette, is that I add more warm water to the omelette while filtering. This should pull out most of the actives if it is there. I just taste what comes through. If it is bitter, then there is actives coming out.

Ah Ok!

Yeah SWIM has a tendency to wash pretty much anything that comes into contact with extracts very thoroughly before he discards them. And I guess losses caused by the egg would probably be quite small compared to losses due to amateur filtering.

Time to get more seeds.

 

[damiana]

so if harmaline freebase is purchased online can it be turned into a salt for sublingual use(to be combined with 5-meo-dmt and dmt) using the fasa tek.

 

[69ron]

so if harmaline freebase is purchased online can it be turned into a salt for sublingual use(to be combined with 5-meo-dmt and dmt) using the fasa tek.

Freebase harmaline is better for sublingual use. Don’t turn it into a salt.