Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols

[BongQuixote]

At what stage do you actually filter the Harmalas?

Right after reduction, but then I also vacuum filter between basically every step, including the five manskes. There is so much stuff in rue, and hard to get it all out. I work with whole seeds, leaves enough of a mess in my opinion. If you look at VDS yield, he didn't get a big bump from the extraction he did with blended seeds instead of whole, so I'm ok with it.

 

[BongQuixote]

Can't discern the globes on the THH picture, but if the harmaline is gone (which is clearly the case) then it can't really go else than THH I presume.

That's my hope! I certainly seems to be active in the way advertised.

...Harmaline: Like harmine, but 4 times stronger MAOI...I've been searching a long time for articles about claims in that sense, if anyone has links to studies or so ...... you're very much appreciated

I've just read it all over this forum in many different threads, but I don't have a source apart from hearsay.

 

[Jules_supertramp]

The source you linked made no mention of the MAOI(s) used and whether or not the type of MAOI being used was the reversible kind as is the case with harmine or moclobemide or the irreversible kind such phenelzine. There's a major difference between the safety of the two types.

There are plenty of reverences if you scroll down the page. They talk mosly about the issue with RIMAs.
You are right they talk about the bigger quantities or specially aged foods but what if one eats pickled foods or supplements Tyrosin for instance. It's definitely better to read about the foods to avoid before consuming any MAOI imo.

 

[Jules_supertramp]

The next time I do it, I gonna split the seeds into half pounds and grind only half of it:thumb_up: .
I also got some seed extract it says >10% alkaloids on the package I'm curious if this works..then the filtering would be worth its while for sure.

 

[Loveall]

Can't discern the globes on the THH picture, but if the harmaline is gone (which is clearly the case) then it can't really go else than THH I presume.

That's my hope! I certainly seems to be active in the way advertised.

...Harmaline: Like harmine, but 4 times stronger MAOI...I've been searching a long time for articles about claims in that sense, if anyone has links to studies or so ...... you're very much appreciated

I've just read it all over this forum in many different threads, but I don't have a source apart from hearsay.

I think Harmine and Harmaline are roughly equivalent in MAO-A inhibition.

In rue seeds ~ 90% of inhibition is from Harmine/Harmaline. Also, ~ 10% is from Harmalol which most of us dump down the drain as basified tea (it's difficult but not impossible to extract).

 

[Jees]

Hey Jees, have you seem the attached paper?...Cheers.

Yes, a long time ago I mentioned it in this thread, and elsewhere, asking for hints. Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Wonder, maybe because harmaline is more taxing than harmine, then a mixup happens between 'taxing' and 'maoi'?

 

[Loveall]

Hey Jees, have you seem the attached paper?...Cheers.

Yes, a long time ago I mentioned it in this thread, and elsewhere, asking for hints. Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Wonder, maybe because harmaline is more taxing than harmine, then a mixup happens between 'taxing' and 'maoi'?

Though you may have already, and you showed the same plot

 

[Jagube]

I'm currently working on ascertaining if there is a difference in alkaloid profile between material which has been extracted using ascorbic acid and that which has had a less strongly reducing acid. Subjectively, harmala decoction with ascorbic acid seems to be more euphoric. I'll abstain from speculation at this point but the plan is to see whether there is a greater amount of THH present in the ascorbic acid brew.

Somewhat OT, but if this works, it would be interesting to see if using ascorbic acid instead of vinegar in the acid step of A/B DMT extractions (especially with aged material) increases yield.

Did your rue extraction involve heat? Ascorbic acid is rather sensitive to heat.

 

[Nachooo]

Hi all, first post here. Just to comment my experiences with THH and harmine...
First excuse me about my english, is not my native language.
Regarding the harmala alkaloids, have to say that I pick my seeds in the wild, from the Monegros desert in Spain. Know some places were literally are thousands of plants, so is easy to me to take any amount I want, with the bonus of being fresh seeds, late august is probably the best moment to pick them...

So I did an extraction with about 5 or 6 manske steps and finally got about a 4% nice harmine and harmaline mix.

As DMT source I used Mimosa hostilis root and had used Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek that gave me a nice white final product.

First I tried to do a changa eliquid with the harmala alkaloids..for that matter I mixed 60 mg of harmine/harmaline with 0.5 ml of PEG400..this disolved almost all giving the mix a reddish tint color..then I added 150 mg of spice mixed with 0.5 ml of PG. AS a vaporiztion device I used a vaporesso veco tank 0.5 ohms.

Results...clearly the harmalas are acting..longer effects, more body load than spice alone, less anxiety trip with less say...the dmt corners smoothed..nut as I was vaping more and more...over one hour time, the harmaline effect was increasing at finally maybe was too much body load..altought with first vapings.. the feeling was awesome..

So I decided to reduce body load and look for the THH effecs that people are talking about..
In order to do that, I purchased 99,99 % lab grade magnesium ribbon..25 gr for about 25$
I mixed 1gr of freebased harmine/harmaline with about 100 ml of vinegar 8% and then added 0,6 gr of the magnesium ribbon...hidrogen reaction last about 40 minuts until all magnesium disolved, I agitated the mix meanwhile. I based with ammonia and used alo it to wash the precipitates..that in comparation with original freebase have lost a very very little reds tint..and now had a withish with shades of cream color..

I weight the new harmine/THH mix and it was 0,8 gr..I thought it was nice cause I knew thare should be a weight reduction..and also that magnesium salts have been washed away...

With this mix I repeated the process of makin changa eliquid with same proportions that the previous harmine/DHH mix. The PEG400 also disolve the alkaloids but not totally..anyway I tested it in the veco tank with spice like the previous experiment..

Results were encouraging..I noticed even less anxiety..almost no body load..better mood, but less potent effects..that could be easily explained by the fact that I have reduced the MAOI effects to a half by reducing the harmaline..so all seem correct...

After that the next day, I decided to take a bigger step..so I take my saionara top airflow titanium bucket device..and fill it with 20 mg of the harmine/THH mix.. I power the saionara with 25 watts..according to specs it should give about 260 C temps and more that should vaporize the alkaloids correctly..

Results..much more effect..harsh smoke at first but inmediately a profound body sensation but without the harmaline body load.that gave much more ringing in the ears..some optical effects like tha hability to see the ether flowing in air ..clearly there is a mild hallucinogen effect using only harmine/THH. I feel that those 20 mg were enough vaped that way..and probably even less.

20 minutes after the experiment I vape with a drizzle vaporesso tank 1,6 ohms some spice mixed 1gr/1ml PG.. I did very short inhalations cause I do not want to brealthrough..so inhalations were about 2 seconds instead of more than 10...(I need about 2 or 3 big inhalations of ten seconds to breakthrough).. The harmala /THH mix gave the dmt much more less confusion..better head space, nice soft visuals..and in general much better mood. The effects lasted more than usual
..I would say that the first hard effects..lets say the first 5 minutes lasted a bit more...but the final effects..that tryptamine sensation with mild visuals llasted much more than with spice alone..
Visuals were maybe more clear than with the harmine/harmaline mix and there was a moment where I went to the entity world, It was not intended..cause I used low dmt quantity..just wanted to simulate a soft changa experience...but they appear...and have to say that I was so calm and happy that there was a welcoming feeling with those machine like beings surrounded by long chains of xenoglyphs...you know what I mean...

Thanks for the reading..and special thanks to @BongQuixote and others that paved the way to this ...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Hi Nachooo, and welcome - that's a great and comprehensive first post.

Looking forward to seeing more of you here. You could post in the introductory essay section so we can find out a bit more about your prior experiences and what led you here, without this thread going too far astray!

 

[Nachooo]

Hi Nachooo, and welcome - that's a great and comprehensive first post.

Looking forward to seeing more of you here. You could post in the introductory essay section so we can find out a bit more about your prior experiences and what led you here, without this thread going too far astray!

Thanks for your kindly words... I dont like speak too much about me..but let say that I am an old
spaniard..that when was a young man... was in the same room when Festi and Samorini told to the world their now famous paper on Phalaris species..it was in the spanish town of Lerida..circa september 94...but the best thing is that close to me were Ann and Sasha Shulgin and also J.Callaway..and J.Ott..and more incredible people...memories...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for your kindly words... I dont like speak too much about me..but let say that I am an old spaniard..that when was a young man... was in the same room when Festi and Samorini told to the world their now famous paper on Phalaris species..it was in the spanish town of Lerida..circa september 94...but the best thing is that close to me were Ann and Sasha Shulgin and also J.Callaway..and J.Ott..and more incredible people...memories...

Understood - and we can be sure that many of us here would love to hear of any further stories you're willing to share.

 

[Woolmer]

I understand the purity of the zinc or magnesium used in reduction needs to be very pure for safety purposes. Upon looking for a source, I have found zinc that is 98% pure (with worrying heavy metals such as lead (0.15%) and cadmium (0.1%)), and magnesium at 99.5% purity (0.01% lead and others).

I have read a lot of the thread and other sources but would also like some specific input on whether the heavy metal concentrations might be at worrying levels. At what levels do they become worrying?

Perhaps it would be good to compile a sticky post for harm reduction purposes considering these metals to be insidious.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I understand the purity of the zinc or magnesium used in reduction needs to be very pure for safety purposes. Upon looking for a source, I have found zinc that is 98% pure (with worrying heavy metals such as lead (0.15%) and cadmium (0.1%)), and magnesium at 99.5% purity (0.01% lead and others).

I have read a lot of the thread and other sources but would also like some specific input on whether the heavy metal concentrations might be at worrying levels. At what levels do they become worrying?

Perhaps it would be good to compile a sticky post for harm reduction purposes considering these metals to be insidious.

The Centers for Disease Control (US) has set the upper limit for blood lead for adults at 10 µg/dl (10 µg/100 g) and for children at 5 µg/dl. Elevated lead may also be detected by changes in red blood cells or dense lines in the bones of children as seen on X-ray. Lead poisoning is preventable.

8-hour TWA (time-weighted-average) exposure level of 5 mg/m has been estimated for lethal effects of inhalation exposure to cadmium, and exposure to 1 mg/m is considered to be immediately dangerous to human health (Friberg, 1950).

Hopefully this helps. I'll try to find more info later. It's been a long day so need a little rest.

One love

 

[skoobysnax]

Hi all, first post here. Just to comment my experiences with THH and harmine...
First excuse me about my english, is not my native language.
Regarding the harmala alkaloids, have to say that I pick my seeds in the wild, from the Monegros desert in Spain. Know some places were literally are thousands of plants, so is easy to me to take any amount I want, with the bonus of being fresh seeds, late august is probably the best moment to pick

You are awesome. Wildcrafting. Thx for all the other info too. I had undissolved alks in a PG mix once. I was mixing in a shot glass so i placed it in a warm water bath and stired with a toothpick until the solution was transparent. Thx to everyone working on a better way to get THH from rue. It is a promising alkaloid for so many things, neurogenesis was mentioned in an interview with Dennis McKenna.

 

[Woolmer]

A bit silly of me for not looking well enough but I found info in this thread now that a Manske after the reduction should get rid of most of the heavy metal contamination, but that it is still better to use zinc/magnesium sources with lower amounts of heavy metals.

Regardless I thought I would link an interesting review on lead toxicity.

"Most pharmaceutical companies have set a limit for maximum daily intake of lead as 1.0 μg/g, however prolonged intake of even this low level of lead is hazardous to human beings". So for a 70kg person the max daily intake should be no more than 70mg (But according to the author this is still a toxic level).

 

[skoobysnax]

A bit silly of me for not looking well enough but I found info in this thread now that a Manske after the reduction should get rid of most of the heavy metal contamination, but that it is still better to use zinc/magnesium sources with lower amounts of heavy metals.

Regardless I thought I would link an interesting review on lead toxicity.

"Most pharmaceutical companies have set a limit for maximum daily intake of lead as 1.0 μg/g, however prolonged intake of even this low level of lead is hazardous to human beings". So for a 70kg person the max daily intake should be no more than 70mg (But according to the author this is still a toxic level).

In this thread Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus there is discussion of Chinese THH from liftmode sold as a nootropic which is of questionable quality. It came with a "certificate of analysis"
Listing these results
Cadmium <0.010 ppm
Mercury <0.003 ppm
Lead <0.397 ppm
Arsenic <0.077 ppm
Testing date 11/24/2020
Product floresces green which may indicate poor storage. I am really having some second thoughts about putting this in my body.

 

[Jagube]

So for a 70kg person the max daily intake should be no more than 70mg (But according to the author this is still a toxic level).

According to the author it is toxic when taken daily. People usually don't take THH daily, but I guess some might.

The ammonia precipitation also removes a good deal of metals. blue.magic did a test (sorry I can't find it) and it showed no detectable levels post-ammonia precipitation.

But come to think of it, I wonder if I should use gloves while handling zinc powder...

Product floresces green which may indicate poor storage. I am really having some second thoughts about putting this in my body.

Have you ever made your own THH?
It will fluoresce green even after a few hours. It takes very little harmaline to make the solution green.

 

[Woolmer]

70μg, not mg!

My brain might be slipping up right now, but since it is 1ug/gram (not kg) does this not equate to 0.001mg/g * 70000g = 70mg? or are the grams in reference to something other than bodyweight?

 

[Jagube]

70μg, not mg!

My brain might be slipping up right now, but since it is 1ug/gram (not kg) does this not equate to 0.001mg/g * 70000g = 70mg? or are the grams in reference to something other than bodyweight?

Oops, I thought that was per kg as that's how these kinds of figures are usually given. We don't normally measure our body weight in grams.

70mg does sound like a lot of lead.

If you use 1g zinc for 1g harmaline in your reduction, your 0.15% lead would give you 0.75mg in a 500mg dose of THH (which is a large dose, but that's roughly how much you'd consume in 3 servings of aya), and that only if all the lead stayed in your THH, which we know it doesn't.