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Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols

Migrated topic.
It's been several years since I did a VDS protocol separation, but was it ever established that a zinc reduction of mixed harmalas (from rue) would only convert the harmaline to THH and leave the harmine intact?

If true, I suspect this would be a popular path for most people doing rue extractions.
 
Ugh, what is this stuff?

aaaaa.JPG
I reacted 1g of presumable quite pure harmaline with 355mg magnesium and 56ml vinegar (5%) until all the magnesium was consumed. I started with too little vinegar and used Magnesium granules so it took over 8 hours.

I filtered the liquid through a coffee filter and then added ammonium until the pH was 9.5.

A brown gooey mass formed at the bottom but filtering the liquid resulted in something that looks like harmalas.

thh.JPG

I tested the UV color by taking a bit of the tan precipitate and dissolving it in vinegar and it is still VERY GREEN


I'm quite confused with both the brown goo and the lack of blue UV... anyone have any ideas?
 
Well it seems like the authors of this older thread may not visit the nexus much anymore.

Thankfully I seem to have had some success on my own.

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I have no idea the chemistry behind it, it seems that for some reason the magnesium granules taking 8+ hours to react with the vinegar caused some sort of reaction that made ammonia basing precipitate a dark brown goo.

I had the idea to flatten the granules and increase their surface area significantly, making the reaction similar to the magnesium ribbon one that many have done successfully.

I did a dual test on both flattened granules and no harmaline (just vinegar). After a little over 1 hour, the little magnesium flattened disks dissapeared and basing with ammonia caused no precipitation.

I then did a 200mg harmaline test run and after 1.5 hours I got a very similar precipitate as was floating above the brown gunk from my last post, but NO BROWN GUNK! When I tested the UV, it seemed very green.... THEN I RINSED IT, and it was a faint purplish blue!

I tested it sublingually, somewhere around 12-20mg and the effects are very significant. I sometimes have placebo headspace changes for up to 30-40 minutes with inactive things, so I was very careful to be critical if that was happening, but it's been 3 hours and the effects are surely way beyond placebo. I didn't actually try harmaline sublingually before to compare, but precipitating it looks nothing like the sparkly glitter harmaline, it is all fluffy and globby. The effects are quite energizing and while I don't ever get "euphoria" from psychedelics, I do feel a typical serotonin abundance feeling. I hope that it is not just conformation bias, but continues with further tests.

The above picture is from a 1.27g test I did, replicating the apearent success of the 200mg one. I've read with zinc it is typically 75% yield, I got 61% which is okay given the coffee filters likely absorbed a not unsignificant portion of liquid and trap the fine powder within the fibers.

I am very nervous to manske this precious THH, but appearently the freebase is somewhat unstable compared to the THH HCl. So I have the convesion of the other 7ish grams of harmaline and the manske to work on in the near future.
 
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I was surprised how much harmalas are trapped in my paper filters (I am using quite thick ones).

Extraction is very simple: just wash the filters in acidic water and precipitate harmalas with any base.

Edit: I am using paper filters only for washing alkaloids from alkaline water and drying them directly in it. There is always some harmalas stuck to it.
 
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Oh nice idea, never thought about it. I'm gonna start a harmalas extraction paper filters collection 😁
I've got stacks of the things, along with multiple paper towels from mopping up spillages, so some kindof re-extraction is definitely on the cards here too (y)
 
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