Harmine VS THH

[maranello551]

Hey Nexusians.

Could you guys help me identify the qualitative differences in the experiences brought about by each of these two MAOI's when used in conjunction with DMT or Psilocybin? Do you find one to be better or more profound than the other? Are they better mixed and used together. I hear from many that Harmaline is less pleasant generally than these two, so my cat is now looking into once of these two in order to continue his quest of perfecting a pharma recipe.

I could not find too much info on the differences between the two in terms of "feeling" and "depth". Harmine + admixture VS THH + admixture VS Harmine + THH + Admixture.

I find few people using THH and admixture without the added harmine. Is this because THH tends to be more expensive or does the harmine add a pleasant element that pure THH does not provide?

Any info is greatly appreciated (especially personal experiences.)

 

[endlessness]

Would you synth the THH yourself?

I´d guess maybe at most 5 people in the Nexus have actually tried real purified THH to answer you that question. Most people in the past had tried a fake THH sold by one unscrupulous vendor that was not selling THH but harmine.

THH does NOT inhibit MAO so it will not work to orally activate DMT. You´ll need another harmala to do that.

If you try the different options, let us know how it feels for you

 

[maranello551]

I was under the impression that flowingvisions was selling tested (I believe) THH as well as harmine.

THH alone doesn't inhibit MAO? Not even in higher doses (say 200-400mg?) Then what does it do? Is it just an additive that can be used with the harmine's MAO inhibitory effect? What element would it add to an admixture influenced already by harmine and how would it differ from admixture + harmine alone?

 

[maranello551]

Please help me my people.

 

[endlessness]

No, they were selling fake THH , was a big scandal back then...

THH does not inhibit MAO even at higher doses. It´s a natural plant alkaloid, and as such, it doesn´t have to do something, the fact that it has one effect or other could be considered as pure chance.. So to say whether THH is ´just an additive´ or not doesn´t really make sense, rather you could ask if it has any effects that are wanted or not, and whether its worth looking into extracting/synthesizing.. Not sure if I´m being clear...

One interesting effect THH does have is IIRC to increase the amount of serotonin platelet transporters, which could have an anti-depressant effect by making you more sensitive to serotonin in the long run (ref: Callaway publication)

Im not sure what kind of psychoactive effects it would have. One person describes 300mg as no effects, 600mg as ´warm body feelings´. I don´t think it´s a substance of interest if you`re looking for psychoactive effects

Also, be patient, no need to double post.

And lastly, again, I´m wondering why the interest, unless you are synthesizing and purifying it yourself

 

[maranello551]

So basically a harmine/spice pharma would be no different from a harmine/THH/spice pharma?

I was asking because I was thinking the flowing visions "THH" was legit and I had heard from a source or two that the effects of THH and spice were far more clear-headed and pleasant than those of harmine and spice. I now wonder what lead them to that conclusion if as you say THH does not make spice orally active.

So you're saying if one activates the spice with harmine, adding THH to the mix will not change the experience?

 

[maranello551]

What is all this about "THH is the holy grail of harmalas" and "THH is the light". What's so great about this THH stuff compared to harmine? What does it add to the experience?

 

[endlessness]

FV THH was fake, I analysed it myself and so did 3 other independent Nexians with access to GC/LC-MS. Most times it was only harmine, once it was harmine+dmt (which is absurdly dangerous because this means the person responsible for fv was sending illegal substances over the mail putting others in great legal danger).

If people noticed a difference between harmine and dmt vs fv ¨thh¨ and dmt, its probably self suggestion.

All this talk of holy grail etc was marketing tactics and placebo/self-suggestion.


And no I´m not saying that if one activates spice with harmine, thh wont change the difference. It possibly will, but again, you will have a hard time finding anybody that can tell you anything because the only people around who have tried it were trying fake fv thh, so you can discount those reports.

 

[maranello551]

Caapi has THH in it correct? How would a caapi extract feel compared to pure harmine when used with spice?

 

[Jees]

If you contribute the caapi-effect-over-harmine to THH solely, you dismiss the rest of whole caapi spectrum. :thumb_dow
Anyway, you could always try it and make a report, would be nice :thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

...THH does NOT inhibit MAO...

Wikipedia is contradicting itself on this matter:

Some MAO-A inhibitors.......
Harmala Alkaloids (Tobacco, Syrian Rue, Passion Flower, Ayahuasca)
Harmine
Harmaline
Tetrahydroharmine

But when you use their very own link to THH:

...Tetrahydroharmine, however, does not inhibit monoamine oxidase A....

tadaa

 

[maranello551]

That's so strange.

Any experiences with isolated harmine and ACRB?

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, just stumbled on it...

I have synthed THH myself (with HCl, Mg metal ribbon, and harmaline) a few times and I tried a dose of 400mg once or twice, but not with DMT. The effect was extremely pronounced and felt like a very clear-headed harmala type deal. More clear than harmine (but I should test with just harmine again). So I'm not sure why folks are saying that THH produces little if any effects on its own. Of course, my home-made THH was a) surely not 100% pure THH since it probably had a little harmine & harmaline contam., but from what I gather it did pass a gc-ms analysis that a friend ordered on it to determine it was mostly THH, and b) from what I've read, the natural version of THH is not exactly the same as the one produced in this way, some type of optical isomer IIRC.

I've also tried FV THH, and as I recall it felt exactly the same as the one I made myself from harmaline. Possibly the THH I got from them was the legit version after their other THH was exposed as harmine; not sure, as memory is fuzzy about the timeline. I did also use 200mg of the FV THH (without other harmalas) with 50mg DMT, and from that mix I had my first & only "psychotic break freakout," which I attribute to there being zero hypnotic component to keep me calm & help me let go into ego death. (My recollection of the events of that psychotic break is not the recollection of the sober folks who were there with me, hence why I call it a psychotic break, but the actual spiritual "realization" in that episode was not any different from the trips that went well, just more intense & embodied.)

Honestly, I'm not into experimenting with any of this stuff anymore, but I am curious now with the controversy...

From what I've seen, it looks like analyses of traditional aya brews often show little if any harmaline. To me, that means that harmine must be hypnotic enough to prevent the kind of freak out I got from FV THH (but I've never tried just harmine with DMT, so I'm not sure). Unless there's another harmala with some hypnotic effect that is not well understood in these brews.

 

[BioTron]

You're just the one I may need to answer a couple of questions I posed in this thread:

Harmine, harmaline and THH from Syrian Rue. Verification and finetuning of the VDS-protocols

If you don't mind, take a look at the last page, I'd like you to respond there to keep information that is relevant to that discussion in that thread. I'm particularly interested in your reduction reaction conditions, how you dealt with insoluble magnesium salts, and whether or not you encountered the dreaded red goo upon basification of the reduction reaction mixture during workup.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Re: the FV controversy and its possible link to your (moyshekapoyre's) 'psychotic break'. FV's "THH" was exposed as being a mixture of harmine and DMT. Thus, adding more DMT to it would mean you had a DMT overdose. Hope this helps explain things a bit.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Re: the FV controversy and its possible link to your (moyshekapoyre's) 'psychotic break'. FV's "THH" was exposed as being a mixture of harmine and DMT. Thus, adding more DMT to it would mean you had a DMT overdose. Hope this helps explain things a bit.

No that would not explain it. I know what a much stronger dmt dose is like and it wasn't that. It was a harmala that lacked hypnotism.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Looking back, I could have phrased that better. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. :?

And it is at least possible that it was your mind at the time as much as it was the drugs. Excuse my foolish speculation in the absence of more data.

 

[Jagube]

After extensive work with Syrian rue and its mansked extracts, I've recently finally managed to reduce harmaline to THH. I've done it successfully three times now. And I must say THH is my new love.

It adds clarity and focus, but much more than that. As I've only had it a few times and don't want to get ahead of myself, let me just say for now that my experiences with harmine, THH and a little harmaline, plus MHRB tea, have been blissful and graceful.

 

[EphemeralTruth]

After extensive work with Syrian rue and its mansked extracts, I've recently finally managed to reduce harmaline to THH. I've done it successfully three times now. And I must say THH is my new love.

It adds clarity and focus, but much more than that. As I've only had it a few times and don't want to get ahead of myself, let me just say for now that my experiences with harmine, THH and a little harmaline, plus MHRB tea, have been blissful and graceful.

Can you please elaborate on the specific ratios you used and how you optimized effects?

I tried 180mg Harmine with 60mg THH and had a very unpleasant experience. The DMT was totally overshadowed by how "bright" the harmalas felt, and even 5 days later my brain chemistry doesn't feel back to normal. Immediate weight gain, headache, insomnia, and fatigue all seemed to be consequences of this trip.

 

[Jagube]

Can you please elaborate on the specific ratios you used and how you optimized effects?

Sorry to hear about your negative experience.

I use ratios found in traditional brews. So perhaps 200 mg harmine and 180 mg THH.

Are you sure your purported THH was indeed THH and not harmaline?