Harmla extraction, QUESTIONS and SUGGESTIONS

[kemist]

One said:

My arse still in pain after harmala extraction Filtrations took ages and me beard grew a bit. :roll:
What i`ve done:

1, Grind 20 grams of the harmala seeds finely in the coffe grinder. (most of them,cos seeds were apparently carrying some water or:?:.Fine pulverization is entirely WRONG,it should be coarser due filration troubles with fine particles )

2, Boil 1 liter of tap water and acidify with pinch of food grade citric acid to pH 5,5-6 (universal pH papers were used and they aren`t as accurate as calibrated pH meter )

3,Split acidic water into three portions and use them to perform three (30-45 minutes lasting) boils on the harmala seeds in covered stainless steel pot. Boil lightly(simmer)strain trough the tea strainer, return solids back to pot, add other acidic portion, boil... and so on.

4,Let those boils settle down a bit, pour together (one`s pH paper read ~ 6,5 in this point) and simmer in the open pot down ~ 100 ml, let it settle for a day then decant as much liquid(above settled solids) as possible and filter it trough the coffee filter.(have to change the filter twice :shock

5, Basify filtrate with a bit of solid food grade sodium bicarbonate to reach pH ~9 whilst stirring. Then let the solids formed, settle down overnight.

6, Filter the water above solids and after that transfer all solids from glass on the same coffee filter. This filter is dried and solids scrapped to get yield of 120 mg of brownish bitter substance with no taste of disgusting rue.
This one wasn`t bioassayed yet

7, Another basification is proceed on filtrate from step 6, with household ammonia (9.9% w/w) to reach pH ~10. After filtration and drying, 250 mg of yellowish substance is obtained.
This one is slightly greasy like.
There is no taste of rue,but hint of some amine was notified. It was pretty disgusting and it make one nauseous a bit(bloody ammonia)for half an hour.

[Bioassay]
After smoking ~ 70 mg with no much effects,further subl. application of ~70 mg brought on some effects. They were mellow distortion in motion, time and sight.Mood has been definitely enhanced for couple of hours,although one felt `no normal` for another 6 hours. A significant synergistic effects with coffee and dark chocolate were noticed during period of intoxication. 8 hours after ingestion one has been significantly less tolerant to lager, red wine and weed.

8,Another basification of filtrate from step 7 with sodium carbonate(pH 12)solution is proceed to reach pH ~11.
Settling is currently in progress (results will be reedited next week)

SUGGESTIONS!!!

Do not use household ammonia
This is your`s health concern, it could be dirty ammonia (doesn`t look like) or some interaction between NH4OH and alkaloids presented in rue producing this stinky amine

Do not grind the seeds finely.
For obvious reason, fine particles will promptly clog your`s filter and you are fu**ed

 

[kemist]

ILPT`s first question is.

Did you guys try to extract from whole (not crushed or grinded) seeds :?:

He has an idea initially extract whole seeds in much more aggressive enviroment.

He would use lower pH , pressure cooker and significantly extend the cooking time as well as number of extraction... :roll:

WHAT do you guys think ?

 

[prottel]

Rue does not need cooking. Room temperature is plenty.

I seem to remember that heating the seeds in the oven at say 120C or more will make the filtering much easier. Then it won't matter if you powder the seeds. The powdering is also much easier.

 

[69ron]

Rue does not need cooking. Room temperature is plenty.

I seem to remember that heating the seeds in the oven at say 120C or more will make the filtering much easier. Then it won't matter if you powder the seeds. The powdering is also much easier.

That sounds like a good idea.

That doesn’t destroy any of the alkaloids?

 

[kemist]

NOBODY?
Ilpt will try extract from whole seeds himself

Rue does not need cooking. Room temperature is plenty.

One know there is not need to use boiling water or acid but he just wanna be sure that he extracted almost all of it

I seem to remember that heating the seeds in the oven at say 120C or more will make the filtering much easier. Then it won't matter if you powder the seeds. The powdering is also much easier.

Great idea it seems like some sort of grease sticking fine particles together an clogging filter

Question 2 How about defatt oven heated and coarsely grinded seeds with NP organic solvent with viskosity simmilar to water :?:
Not filter during defatting only decant solvent with fine particle dispersed. One will loose some goodies for sure but it is worth a try.

 

[prottel]

That doesn’t destroy any of the alkaloids?

As far as I know, no. Rue works fine after heating. Might even turn the harmaline into harmine?
Might need more than 120C. Think I tried 240C once, but that might have destroyed some of the actives.
The rue turns black. If you powder it, which goes very quickly, you will get a very fine black powder.

Rue can also be roasted. The smell it makes is kind of nice. Coffee like.

 

[69ron]

Hmmm...I'll have to check into that.