Harvesting bark

[The Unknowing]

Hi,

I've recently gone for a bushwalk and identified the Acacia Pycnantha.
There were plenty of young trees with healthy looking bark, but I found a few trees that had collapsed and were beginning to die. The bark on the dying trees is a dark reddish/brown colour as could be removed very easily by hand.

My question is,
Is dried out bark sufficient to make an extraction? Does the alkaloid content change with age?

 

[zzzwurple]

Hi,

I've recently gone for a bushwalk and identified the Acacia Pycnantha.
There were plenty of young trees with healthy looking bark, but I found a few trees that had collapsed and were beginning to die. The bark on the dying trees is a dark reddish/brown colour as could be removed very easily by hand.

My question is,
Is dried out bark sufficient to make an extraction? Does the alkaloid content change with age?

Hi OEA,

SWIM has tried to extract off that crumbly bark, without success. It's almost as if that stuff is being pushed off the tree, like an old skin. While it probably does have something in it, the fresh, damp bark from trunks and big branches has been SWIM's biggest success! Sorry, tired to reply to your PM but couldn't. Long and Lat waiting for you!

Lamby

Hey- I'm a new member and recent explorer of the strangeness of DMT- I want to be self sufficient but do not want to harm live trees. I am about an hour or so from Jam Wattle land and recently harvested a kg or so from some dead branches on a live tree and some bark off a well dead tree. I also maybe have a kg or so of phyllodes. I want to use q21q21's TEK to be all natural and safe etc (just waiting for my stainless turkey baster to arrive...) anyhow, have I wasted my time in your opinion with this? Have you some ideas what I can do with the phyllodes? Someone said they are not good for crystals...

SWIM hasn't used phyllodes, as the Jams are so abundant. Having seen hundreds knocked over annually, SWIM doesn't mind using the bark of living trees. In fact, having tried to extract from fallen trees and bark and subsequently having no success, SWIM has no interest in attempting to use dead material again. Besides which dead and dried material is extremely hard to chop up...which might be the reason you are keen to use leaf material. Spice should be in the phyllodes, but you'd need a LOT to pull as much as you can from bark.

If the fallen branches have still got some moisture under the bark, that should be okay.

Also consider using a siphon, as turkey basters take a very long time and can drip and run and blend your separated liquids.

Please update!

RAL

Thank you much for your reply. As a new member I am not allowed to PM. I also am new(ish) to DMT and I do want to extract using the food safe methods. The bark I got was mostly from well-dead trees. I did pull leaf tips (maybe a kg+) but have read elsewhere that someone (Fable) believed that crystals could not be obtained from the phyllodes- only 'jungle honey' could- what does that mean? Does that mean what residue I would be left with could not be vaped? I have a friend from Mora and he said the Acuminata are everywhere...he might be able to help with some fresh bark...

Hi again- I will try a small amount of the bark because of the effort involved in the fine grinding to a powder and the drive etc that I have undertook...I will try extracting from the leaves and see how that goes and let you know. I have a syphon and it's plastic and I am afeared of using anything plastic in the extraction process...just waiting for the ss baster to arrive and I will have a go...might make a mess of it anyway but hopefully not!

 

[zzzwurple]

I'm using vinegar/sodium carbonate/vegetable oil.

You don't know how much I envy you and your 1.8kg acuminata batch.
I could drive out to W.A. but it will take at least 7 hours by car. Think I'd be better off driving 3 hours to a location I believe is flooded with burkitti.

I've never removed fresh bark from a tree before, I always take the old stuff (I don't want to kill a tree), but it seems like my best bet. Can you give me some tips on how you harvest the bark? Do you take bark from the base or branches etc? What precautions do you take to minimize damage to the tree? Do you use a hunting knife or remove the bark by hand?

Where SWIM lives, a 7 hour drive is considered de rigueur if going "to town". But yes it would be a disappointment to travel all that way and mis-identify.

Believe me, there really are gazillions of these trees. And they are prolific breeders.

SWIM uses very sharp, large size, limb secateurs. On the trunk use the blades on the bark to cut around the trunk about a centimetre deep. Then hold the blades open with point down and use them to flip out the bark at the cut line as one might use a paint stripper going down a wall. It sounds violent but it isn't. The bark should lift off fairly easily, revealing a yellow/light green inner core. Then just pull downwards and it will come off in long strips. If you pull carefully it will strip all the way to the earth. SWIM has used this method and the trees are still alive, so don't be too worried. One medium sized tree will easily yield 1.5kgs of bark matter, which you should cut into small pieces, and powder BEFORE it dries or it will be too hard to work with (SWIM has taken a few days to cut strips into smaller pieces and process, so one needn't do it all in one day). It will remain moist for up to a week.

If you still feel in any way that this is not a good method, and causes harm to the tree, many animals ring-bark trees. Sheep, goats, elephant, horses, even lions. In Africa acacias are ring-barked to make rope and kiondo. Humans harvest wood for construction all over the world on a scale it would be very hard to comprehend. I wouldn't be that concerned about this.

SWIM uses bark from trunks by preference, as it's easier to get big yields, long strips, and it is closer to the ground. Of course, if you are driving a number of hours you'll want to harvest as much as you can, so the big lower branches also yield bark in the same stripping method.

Lamby

Thank you for the detailed instructions and also for the ethical considerations. It's got to be right to feel right yes? I don't like to hurt plants for no reason. I suppose we eat them as we do animals and ethically if we are using them for a good purpose and taking responsibility for harvesting that this is what we humans do. A question; so the bark from a lower branch that has been cut will yield a similar amount to say bark from the trunk? Someone also did say mid-summer Acuminata's have the highest concentrations of DMT compared to other times of the year. What do you think? Cheers

 

[The Unknowing]

Mid-summer conditions should yield higher alkaloid content as the plant is being stressed by dryer conditions. This goes for many different plants, eg phalaris or Mescaline containing cacti.

 

[zzzwurple]

Mid-summer conditions should yield higher alkaloid content as the plant is being stressed by dryer conditions. This goes for many different plants, eg phalaris or Mescaline containing cacti.

Thanks for the tip

 

[zzzwurple]

Hi,

I've recently gone for a bushwalk and identified the Acacia Pycnantha.
There were plenty of young trees with healthy looking bark, but I found a few trees that had collapsed and were beginning to die. The bark on the dying trees is a dark reddish/brown colour as could be removed very easily by hand.

My question is,
Is dried out bark sufficient to make an extraction? Does the alkaloid content change with age?

Hi OEA,

SWIM has tried to extract off that crumbly bark, without success. It's almost as if that stuff is being pushed off the tree, like an old skin. While it probably does have something in it, the fresh, damp bark from trunks and big branches has been SWIM's biggest success! Sorry, tired to reply to your PM but couldn't. Long and Lat waiting for you!

Lamby

SWIM hasn't used phyllodes, as the Jams are so abundant. Having seen hundreds knocked over annually, SWIM doesn't mind using the bark of living trees. In fact, having tried to extract from fallen trees and bark and subsequently having no success, SWIM has no interest in attempting to use dead material again. Besides which dead and dried material is extremely hard to chop up...which might be the reason you are keen to use leaf material. Spice should be in the phyllodes, but you'd need a LOT to pull as much as you can from bark.

If the fallen branches have still got some moisture under the bark, that should be okay.

Also consider using a siphon, as turkey basters take a very long time and can drip and run and blend your separated liquids.

Please update!

RAL

Hi all-
Well from 3 pulls (the last being after 24 hours) I have so far extracted about 320mg from 90g of bark. So not exceptional at all. I mentioned that the bark was from a likely long dead tree and some from a live tree with a dead branch (A. Acuminata) I did vape a small amount (timing not right for more than a taste) and unless there was some left over in the machine (I don't think there was) it seems to be psychoactive. My question is that I have a beige powder that does not melt easily into the scourer (like other DMT I have used) and it is dry/ powdery- I have attached a photo. Next time I will be using some live bark you were right about the yield...Cheers

 

[zzzwurple]

What I am meaning to ask is have I likely done something wrong is what I mean to say (apart from starting with the dead material...) it is my first extraction using Q21Q21 Tek Lime/Vinegar/D-Limeonene...appreciate any input.

RAL- I did get a stainless steel baster that has an injection tip and it seemed to work well enough with separating the layers without contamination- could get the tip right down to the bottom corner of the jar to suck it all up. Probably a baster would make a mess of it without the injection tip though

 

[acacian]

dead material will likely be drastically reduced in yield depending on how long its been there.. thats great that you got some out of it anyways.. i haven't tried Q21's tek but find standard a/b works well in my experience. do you know if the tree you used was broad or narrow leaf acuminata?

also whether or not acuminata is abundant or not it seems pointless to me harvesting in a way that will harm the tree when you can still get plenty of dmt from phyllodes.. it is still a living organism and respect should be shown. phyllodes contain a healthy 1% dmt which is a very good yield (more than the trunk bark of other trees like obtusifolia for example). I think harvesting trunk bark is generally pretty lazy behaviour considering you have such a consistent and high yielding phyllode species at your fingertips ...and the fact that its widespread isn't really an excuse to do needless harm..

 

[zzzwurple]

dead material will likely be drastically reduced in yield depending on how long its been there.. thats great that you got some out of it anyways.. i haven't tried Q21's tek but find standard a/b works well in my experience. do you know if the tree you used was broad or narrow leaf acuminata?

also whether or not acuminata is abundant or not it seems pointless to me harvesting in a way that will harm the tree when you can still get plenty of dmt from phyllodes.. it is still a living organism and respect should be shown. phyllodes contain a healthy 1% dmt which is a very good yield (more than the trunk bark of other trees like obtusifolia for example). I think harvesting trunk bark is generally pretty lazy behaviour considering you have such a consistent and high yielding phyllode species at your fingertips ...and the fact that its widespread isn't really an excuse to do needless harm..

Hi Acacian,
Thanks for your reply. I do have some phyllodes...I did read a post somewhere that mentioned a doubt that crystals could be got from the phyllodes. Do you disagree? I have the broad leaf variety. Old trees. I agree with you about not wanting to harm a living tree. Personally, I think the DMT experience may have something to do with Nature if that makes any sense. Others say that stripping a small amount of bark won't hurt the tree. If you think I can get a vape-able product from the Tek I am using than I will try to extract from the phyllodes and see how it goes. If that goes well i would need use nothing else...

They are dry- blend to powder and proceed as I would with bark?

 

[acacian]

there's been a number of reports of people getting it from phyllodes -i know a member here grows his own and harvests the phyllodes yielding white crystals ..as far as obtaining crystals vs goo it depends on the method of extraction/chemicals used.. and regarding the harm harvesting trunk bark causes it depends on how you do it.. you certainly don't want to be ringbarking trees, but taking any amount of the trunk will do the tree a lot more harm than simply pruning a few branches (where you get branch bark+phyllodes).. and yes, I definitely agree that the DMT experience has something to do with nature , in that one aspect of these chemical's presence in nature is likely for communication with other lifeforms..and I think nature helps provide it in a way that least harms nature if that makes sense... i find it hard to believe trees would provide these chemicals for ingestion in a way that would ultimately cause harm to them, and in that sense using phyllodes seems more coherent with the plants yearn to communicate with animals

i'd suggest going over to the acacia extraction workspace for other extraction tips.. theres a link in my signature.

generally a typical a/b of boiling plant material in acidic solution, basifying and pulling with non polar solvent will work fine. crystals are not essential they are just more convenient for scraping up and storing.. i rarely attempt to crystalise extracts now and usually leave them as a wax/goo

 

[zzzwurple]

there's been a number of reports of people getting it from phyllodes -i know a member here grows his own and harvests the phyllodes yielding white crystals ..as far as obtaining crystals vs goo it depends on the method of extraction/chemicals used.. and regarding the harm harvesting trunk bark causes it depends on how you do it.. you certainly don't want to be ringbarking trees, but taking any amount of the trunk will do the tree a lot more harm than simply pruning a few branches (where you get branch bark+phyllodes).. and yes, I definitely agree that the DMT experience has something to do with nature , in that one aspect of these chemical's presence in nature is likely for communication with other lifeforms..and I think nature helps provide it in a way that least harms nature if that makes sense... i find it hard to believe trees would provide these chemicals for ingestion in a way that would ultimately cause harm to them, and in that sense using phyllodes seems more coherent with the plants yearn to communicate with animals

i'd suggest going over to the acacia extraction workspace for other extraction tips.. theres a link in my signature.

generally a typical a/b of boiling plant material in acidic solution, basifying and pulling with non polar solvent will work fine. crystals are not essential they are just more convenient for scraping up and storing.. i rarely attempt to crystalise extracts now and usually leave them as a wax/goo

The crystals that I ended up with from old bark extract (my first ever attempt at extraction...dry-powdery-beige)don't melt into the scourer at all and while the smoke/ vapour is mildly psychoactive likely not ... but another alkaloid. Maybe because of the age of the bark all the DMT got washed out. Anyhow, I will try the phyllodes and see if I can get what I want from them. I followed your link to A/B extractions but unsure what might work best because there is lot of experimenting going on. Different species, different profiles, different methods. This will be my second attempt so later can experiment more; it was however an interesting read. There is a lot to learn from the forums. The important thing to me is 100% food safe. Will I get crystals (easier to manage at this point for me) from boiling plant material in acidic solution, reducing, raising PH with lime and then using D-limonene as a solvent to pull? Or wax/ goo. It sounds as complicated that way as mixing leaf material with vinegar and H2O, then lime, then pulling with solvent? On the other issue, I think one of the major problems with modern day society is our separation from nature and what is natural. I think it is the cause of a lot of sickness and mental health problems and unhappiness. A greater connection to nature can only be positive. If DMT can offer that portal I am all for it

 

[zzzwurple]

there's been a number of reports of people getting it from phyllodes -i know a member here grows his own and harvests the phyllodes yielding white crystals ..as far as obtaining crystals vs goo it depends on the method of extraction/chemicals used.. and regarding the harm harvesting trunk bark causes it depends on how you do it.. you certainly don't want to be ringbarking trees, but taking any amount of the trunk will do the tree a lot more harm than simply pruning a few branches (where you get branch bark+phyllodes).. and yes, I definitely agree that the DMT experience has something to do with nature , in that one aspect of these chemical's presence in nature is likely for communication with other lifeforms..and I think nature helps provide it in a way that least harms nature if that makes sense... i find it hard to believe trees would provide these chemicals for ingestion in a way that would ultimately cause harm to them, and in that sense using phyllodes seems more coherent with the plants yearn to communicate with animals

i'd suggest going over to the acacia extraction workspace for other extraction tips.. theres a link in my signature.

generally a typical a/b of boiling plant material in acidic solution, basifying and pulling with non polar solvent will work fine. crystals are not essential they are just more convenient for scraping up and storing.. i rarely attempt to crystalise extracts now and usually leave them as a wax/goo

The crystals that I ended up with from old bark extract (my first ever attempt at extraction...dry-powdery-beige)don't melt into the scourer at all and while the smoke/ vapour is mildly psychoactive likely not ... but another alkaloid. Maybe because of the age of the bark all the DMT got washed out. Anyhow, I will try the phyllodes and see if I can get what I want from them. I followed your link to A/B extractions but unsure what might work best because there is lot of experimenting going on. Different species, different profiles, different methods. This will be my second attempt so later can experiment more; it was however an interesting read. There is a lot to learn from the forums. The important thing to me is 100% food safe. Will I get crystals (easier to manage at this point for me) from boiling plant material in acidic solution, reducing, raising PH with lime and then using D-limonene as a solvent to pull? Or wax/ goo. It sounds as complicated that way as mixing leaf material with vinegar and H2O, then lime, then pulling with solvent? On the other issue, I think one of the major problems with modern day society is our separation from nature and what is natural. I think it is the cause of a lot of sickness and mental health problems and unhappiness. A greater connection to nature can only be positive. If DMT can offer that portal I am all for it

 

[DreaMTripper]

What youve got there is probably decomposed plant matter with your dmt. Rain will leach alkaloids and rot. Acuminata is reported as having mainly only dmt so crystals should be attainable from live or not long fell phyllodes and branches. Probably not with limonene its not selective enough.
You cant freeze precip or evap limonene. Its only good for back-salting but you need a decent ammount as you will lose some during the conversion.
You could try amor fatis crystalisation method its probably the closest you will get to clean solid crystals using only foodsafe stuff, you could take it one step further and powder the chunks then water crystalize to clean them up. There is no danger in losing product at that point as you can always pull again with a solvent. You will just need to research correct volumes to use depending on yield, its recommended to use a test tube.
Once youve used phyllodes you wont go back! So much more pleasant and natural to work with. Its all about good patient preparation to maximise yield.
Cut up phyllodes and shaved stem/twig bark and thoroughly dry in the sun or the oven on low, grind up and soak in water and vinegar overnight. pH5.
Place in ziplock bag and put in freezer overnight. Take out and pulverise the iced phyllodes. Thaw gradually at room temp.
Immerse just and boil in vinegar water and a few shots of vodka for an hour, pH5. Strain and reduce to a goo...The manual freebasing method is on the nexus wiki.
It would be interesting to see someone with enough patience get crystals the food safe way but if not there is always the limonene honey. Let us know how you get on

 

[RadioActiveLamb]

The crystals that I ended up with from old bark extract (my first ever attempt at extraction...dry-powdery-beige)don't melt into the scourer at all and while the smoke/ vapour is mildly psychoactive likely not ... but another alkaloid. Maybe because of the age of the bark all the DMT got washed out.

That's interesting. It looks okay from your picture...but people have given some great feedback about why old material doesn't yield, and that has been SWIM's experience too. Did you try again with fresher material? Are you still holding strong to your natural ext tek?

Lamby

 

[zzzwurple]

What youve got there is probably decomposed plant matter with your dmt. Rain will leach alkaloids and rot. Acuminata is reported as having mainly only dmt so crystals should be attainable from live or not long fell phyllodes and branches. Probably not with limonene its not selective enough.
You cant freeze precip or evap limonene. Its only good for back-salting but you need a decent ammount as you will lose some during the conversion.
You could try amor fatis crystalisation method its probably the closest you will get to clean solid crystals using only foodsafe stuff, you could take it one step further and powder the chunks then water crystalize to clean them up. There is no danger in losing product at that point as you can always pull again with a solvent. You will just need to research correct volumes to use depending on yield, its recommended to use a test tube.
Once youve used phyllodes you wont go back! So much more pleasant and natural to work with. Its all about good patient preparation to maximise yield.
Cut up phyllodes and shaved stem/twig bark and thoroughly dry in the sun or the oven on low, grind up and soak in water and vinegar overnight. pH5.
Place in ziplock bag and put in freezer overnight. Take out and pulverise the iced phyllodes. Thaw gradually at room temp.
Immerse just and boil in vinegar water and a few shots of vodka for an hour, pH5. Strain and reduce to a goo...The manual freebasing method is on the nexus wiki.
It would be interesting to see someone with enough patience get crystals the food safe way but if not there is always the limonene honey. Let us know how you get on

I really appreciate that response and I will try the method you outlined and it sounds much simpler than what I am trying now with the phyllodes. Same Tek (Q21) used for the bark (that failed) but it's a goopy mess at the moment and will be drying in the oven for hours...next I will try the amor fatis Tek and let you know how I get on with it. I don't want to be working with bark and it sounds like I don't need to for any reason at all. Cheers mate

 

[zzzwurple]

The crystals that I ended up with from old bark extract (my first ever attempt at extraction...dry-powdery-beige)don't melt into the scourer at all and while the smoke/ vapour is mildly psychoactive likely not ... but another alkaloid. Maybe because of the age of the bark all the DMT got washed out.

That's interesting. It looks okay from your picture...but people have given some great feedback about why old material doesn't yield, and that has been SWIM's experience too. Did you try again with fresher material? Are you still holding strong to your natural ext tek?

Lamby

I am trying to extract from phyllodes now that were picked fresh but using the same Tek vinegar/lime/limonene. I don't know if it's going to work but we'll see. I'll try the amor fatis Tek outlined above next and compare yields (and effort!) and throw out all that bark that seems to have damaged the blender. Fortunately it is still under warranty...and yes I will stick with natural extraction because I don't like the idea of possibly inhaling something harmful. That sounds ironic coming from me but I think in this case and with this molecule it is the best direction to take- a lot of nice people on this forum BTW

 

[zzzwurple]

What youve got there is probably decomposed plant matter with your dmt. Rain will leach alkaloids and rot. Acuminata is reported as having mainly only dmt so crystals should be attainable from live or not long fell phyllodes and branches. Probably not with limonene its not selective enough.
You cant freeze precip or evap limonene. Its only good for back-salting but you need a decent ammount as you will lose some during the conversion.
You could try amor fatis crystalisation method its probably the closest you will get to clean solid crystals using only foodsafe stuff, you could take it one step further and powder the chunks then water crystalize to clean them up. There is no danger in losing product at that point as you can always pull again with a solvent. You will just need to research correct volumes to use depending on yield, its recommended to use a test tube.
Once youve used phyllodes you wont go back! So much more pleasant and natural to work with. Its all about good patient preparation to maximise yield.
Cut up phyllodes and shaved stem/twig bark and thoroughly dry in the sun or the oven on low, grind up and soak in water and vinegar overnight. pH5.
Place in ziplock bag and put in freezer overnight. Take out and pulverise the iced phyllodes. Thaw gradually at room temp.
Immerse just and boil in vinegar water and a few shots of vodka for an hour, pH5. Strain and reduce to a goo...The manual freebasing method is on the nexus wiki.
It would be interesting to see someone with enough patience get crystals the food safe way but if not there is always the limonene honey. Let us know how you get on

If you could help point me in the right direction- this is experiment #2 using phyllodes. After pulling with limonene 24 and 48 hours later I have been left with a yellow/ orange sticky resin. I have attached a photo. It smells vinegary and doesn't vape instead producing smoke. I'm not sure what to do with it. Do I need to do a further extraction of this product to get the freebase form? I have some phyllodes left and will try the amor fatis technique next and report back with results...cheers

 

[zzzwurple]

I'm talking to myself here- but I might have solved a problem - I re-reduced after filtering and have now been left with a much darker and bitter goo. This might be it? Fingers crossed....

 

[DreaMTripper]

Thats been salted out of limonene?
Looks ok but not in smokable form. If its goey you can do amor fatis process now to freebase. Youre nearly done!

 

[zzzwurple]

Thats been salted out of limonene?
Looks ok but not in smokable form. If its goey you can do amor fatis process now to freebase. Youre nearly done!

What I did was use the non-polar solvent (vinegar and then water) to separate the fumerate (?) in 3 pulls from the limonene (after the phyllodes had soaked for 24-48-72 hours +) in the limonene...separating the bottom layer from the top (reserving bottom layer) using a stainless baster with an injection tip. To get a dark goo I re-reduced (hot water bath) after filtering well (I did not do this previously) but I don't know how to 'salt out' the limonene....unless the evap like i have done is what that means? I have included the most recent pic- thanks again-

 

[zzzwurple]

So how can I make this goo into freebase? The Q21 Tek I followed doesn't mention another step unless I'm mistaken? I don't care about crystals...