Has DMT given you a new perspective on abstract concepts?

[fathomlessness]

Abstract concepts such as: Infinity, Nothing, Absoluteness, Freedom, Hope, Good and Evil, etc.

It would seem that the sharp and drastic alteration of ones conscious experience would by necessity draw in to question the assumptions of ones own rational understanding of these concepts, or perhaps rather how irrational they are or can be. Please share any experiences you have with interpreting the changes in understanding the limits of human abstract conceptualization via DMT ingestion.

 

[AwesomeUsername]

Interesting you should point that out and yes it has IME.

In my personal trips with aya, the general theme however are more basic concepts like happiness and sadness, feeling good and feeling bad along with the general concept of passing. Kind of hard to explain but something along the lines "I am in this state, this state will pass, the sickness I feel will pass, my life will pass... eventually" etc. etc.

Than I get into some deeper subjects like you described and it gets very philosophical and I find my self thinking this is strange, and this and this etc. about subjects that I wouldn't think twice about in my daily life.

In my daily life I would just throw these concepts out if I had to explain something, on aya it is not that easy. I would rather not say it at all until I completely get around to understanding it which takes a while.

After this kind of experience someone would expect to be quite confused, but contrary to that I actually feel I have a better grip on reality and understanding life in general after this. It also changes the way you understand everything on a non-egoistical but perfectly logical way. I would say it is amazing, but only if you are truly prepared for this ruthless truth. I could easily see someone flipping out because they didn't want their delusions to strip away.

This is ultimately the price you pay for messing with the "ultimate secrets of the universe" for the lack of a better expression. IME it was well worth it, but it is certainly not for everyone but it should be available to those that know what they are getting into and are really sure they want it IMO.

 

[fathomlessness]

Than I get into some deeper subjects like you described and it gets very philosophical and I find my self thinking this is strange, and this and this etc. about subjects that I wouldn't think twice about in my daily life.

After this kind of experience someone would expect to be quite confused, but contrary to that I actually feel I have a better grip on reality and understanding life in general after this. It also changes the way you understand everything on a non-egoistical but perfectly logical way. I would say it is amazing, but only if you are truly prepared for this ruthless truth. I could easily see someone flipping out because they didn't want their delusions to strip away.

This is ultimately the price you pay for messing with the "ultimate secrets of the universe" for the lack of a better expression. IME it was well worth it, but it is certainly not for everyone but it should be available to those that know what they are getting into and are really sure they want it IMO.

Could you go in to any more detail about what sort of things you thought were strange? Or is it just too far away from words to capture?

I understand what you mean about the potential to make people flip out. They have this thing on the internet nowadays called a "mindblow". Whenever I get them (usually from paradoxes, scientific facts and philosophical concepts), it really makes me feel anxious. It makes me feel like the whole foundation of my understanding is incompetent in capturing any truth in reality and then I freak out because I don't know what is REALLY going on. How one comes to terms without having any understanding of what the hell is going on about anything is something I am puzzled about. Whenever I have seen anyone utterly confused they are also at the same time either dramatically afraid or increasingly worried. I assume it is a survival mechanism of the brain or at least the unconscious portion of it. If you can't figure out how to make sense of reality and locate food and water, you are a gonner!

I also find it curious that out of your confusion came clarity on understanding reality. What do you mean by changing the way you understand things on a non-egoistical level? You mean you perceive more interconnections between seeing reality as the universe as yourself being a part of it? And how could someone determine whether they are ready or how can they prepare themselves? What happens if it goes wrong and the person who ingested DMT ends up with a panic disorder, not being able to understand reality at all and is placed within a mental institution. Such examples might not be too far from a possibility, no?

For an example of mindblow: somehow numbers exist with infinity between them where they are set. They somehow exist within an infinite circumference. So are they infinite themselves?

 

[AwesomeUsername]

I'll try and elaborate to some questions you asked but you got to understand not everything is so black and white.

I've had people ask me while I was on LSD "what do you see, what do you see?", it isn't always about seeing and learning, it has more to it regardless of what psychedelic (at least in the classic four).

I would say it is too far from words to be captured but that doesn't necessarily mean it is bad either. It is a way of slowly striping your ego before you blast of if you managed to blast off at all, either way you're in this state of not understanding and that's ok.

We as people aren't meant to know everything, and aren't meant to remember or understand everything too. Perhaps it is a by product of a the mind being hyperactive, I don't quite know but it creates that feeling of everything feeling strange. Some people have gone as far as being mindblown by the fact that they have hands.

The clarity you get afterwards is probably also a by product of the mind one again being hyperactive but not to that extent. It makes sense if the mind is cleared up of the every-day nonsense that thinking and coming to a conclusion seems far easier.

This feeling is most commonly felt at the end of the trip and up to a day after the session, but I feel the positive impact of ayahuasca on my life for much longer.

I wouldn't say you're at risk about flipping out after DMT and ayahuasca if you have a good grip on reality although the question about what is reality is hugely debatable. IME DMT/ayahuasca with all the crazy things it has to offer has never make me feel like I'm about to lose my freaking mind like LSD or mushrooms have. It has a way of drastically altering your perception without clouding your mind much, or at all. This doesn't mean it isn't that intense by any means, but it is very welcoming and not that confusing since it might be a part of our everyday neurochemistry. If not that, it is very closely related.

However, if you do have a mental disorder psychedelics could bring it up but IMO mentally ill people would have flipped out sooner or later regardless of such external stimuli. Those kind of people are ticking time bombs.

 

[fathomlessness]

Thanks for the reply. I am well aware of the changes in conceptualization from when I trip, which is why I started this thread... to go in to it in a bit more detail intellectually. I wanted to ask some basic questions in order to lay out a fundamental framework for the original topic being discussed so everyone can grasp it in a coherent way and then hopefully use that basic framework to analyze much deeper.

So far all we have discussed is the feeling of what it is like and what occurs after it is over. I really wanted to analyze it a bit further in detail the abstract concepts of questioning, why the questioning takes place, the implications of having these concepts questioned, undermined or re-imprinted with alternative meanings and lastly preventative measures for future trippers who could use help with integrating a complex and oftentimes alien overhaul of their comprehension of fundamental concepts of their existence.

 

[fathomlessness]

I wouldn't say you're at risk about flipping out after DMT and ayahuasca if you have a good grip on reality although the question about what is reality is hugely debatable.
However, if you do have a mental disorder psychedelics could bring it up but IMO mentally ill people would have flipped out sooner or later regardless of such external stimuli. Those kind of people are ticking time bombs.

That is funny. How would one determine if they have a mental disorder? Does not knowing what reality is qualify? So you mean to say if someone doesn't have a good grip on reality and thinks it is somewhat illusory or dream-like then they are at risk of developing psychosis from DMT? Reports usually contain that DMT forces people to question the validity of reality afterwords. I guess the abstract-concept being discussed here would be "reality"

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

While tripping on mushrooms I once got a flash of an intuitive understanding of the Cauchy–Schwarz inequality.

As for that philosophical stuff...maybe? It's hard to tell what growth is caused by psychedelics, by drug-free spiritual practices (like meditation), and what is just normal growth and maturity.

Blessings
~ND

 

[AwesomeUsername]

I wouldn't say you're at risk about flipping out after DMT and ayahuasca if you have a good grip on reality although the question about what is reality is hugely debatable.
However, if you do have a mental disorder psychedelics could bring it up but IMO mentally ill people would have flipped out sooner or later regardless of such external stimuli. Those kind of people are ticking time bombs.

That is funny. How would one determine if they have a mental disorder? Does not knowing what reality is qualify? So you mean to say if someone doesn't have a good grip on reality and thinks it is somewhat illusory or dream-like then they are at risk of developing psychosis from DMT? Reports usually contain that DMT forces people to question the validity of reality afterwords. I guess the abstract-concept being discussed here would be "reality"

I would say you never really know, but if you can function on your own I would guess there is nothing to be worried about. I've always looked at this from this angle... Reality is ultimately what you create it too be. Nobody ever feels quite the same as someone else given your personal environmental factors. Each passing moment you also feel a bit different, you might get more tired or more rested so nobodies reality is anywhere near to your own personal state of mind yet we have much in common.

Like when you have heart problems, you can have brain problems. An organ in your body isn't working right, and that's when you know you have a mental illness. If your brain is not working properly you are unable to rely on yourself and other people have the responsibility to keep you alive.

I am lucky enough to say that I do not suffer from this kind of impairment, but I have met people that have this as a part of their everyday reality. Without the help of others they are literally helpless. These sort of stuff are a lot more scary than being temporary not at the peak of your cognitive abilities because of a drug intoxication.