Heat and mescaline

[Dorge]

There seems to be some focus on heat being an issue for mescaline. How is this explained? from what Swim has observed mescaline is released from sanpedro in a rigorous boiling down of tea traditionally by curanderos. If the mescaline was so unstable with heat then why is the tea so active when made traditionally by curanderos?
is it possible that heat has been a scape goat for impotent strains of cacti during extractions?
Traditionally san pedro tea is boiled for quite some time and is very active.

 

[jamie]

I have smoked cactus chips and gotten very mild results..but def more than placebo...wouldnt that sort of go against the heat destroys mescaline thing..

 

[Dorge]

It would seems so wouldnt it... and thats with dirrect flame... much hotter then boiling...

 

[soulfood]

I had a complete loss of potency when I based some torch and then dried it under heat. Up to 700mg achieved nothing but a slight stomach upset.

I've also noticed a slight loss of potency with acetate dried under slight heat compared to a batch from the same cactus that was left to air dry. At the same dosage it was the difference between threshold visual effects and full on characters appearing in the wall.

 

[69ron]

Dry heat is not the same as wet heat (boiling in water). Dry heat tends to damage alkaloids more than wet heat does. So that's a part of it.

I bet the boiling process used by the natives does negatively impact the potency, but they have little choice unless they want to get more sophisticated with their techs. SWIM never got good yields from boiling cactus.

Every time SWIM performed a Soxhlet extraction on cactus with boiling IPA or methanol, the end results were dark colored alkaloids that looked burnt. Yields were incredibly small.

Whenever SWIM dried his final product in the oven instead of a food dehydrator, the potency went down.

SWIM has noticed that he always gets better yields when using no-heat techs with cactus. The worst yields have always been from techs that involve a lot of heat. Coincidence? Possibly. But I doubt it.

It seems heat is definitely bad for mescaline.

 

[psilyguy]

I'm sure the curandero's making the tea where the cactus grows wild and plentiful, are using MUCH more material per cup of tea then we are, since we have to pay for it, and want the most from our money. There is probably a reduction in potency, but with the amount of material used, it doesn't matter.

 

[Phlux-]

on reduction - the first time i had cactus tea i drank like 1.5 liters - that was the strongest experience of my life - having the mesc in a large volume of water seems to increase fx.
the purge was incredible.

 

[Dorge]

heating has not reduced potency for swim...

 

[Seven]

Ron, so drying fresh cactus in the oven at around 100 degrees would degrade the mesc? compared to using a food dehydrator?

 

[69ron]

I think up to 115 F in the oven would be ok. But a food dehydrator would be better because of the fan. It would dry it faster. The less its exposed to heat, the better.

I dare all of you who think mescaline is heat stable to put all of your precious mescaline in the oven at 300 F for 1 hour. Take it out and then test out a dose orally. HA HA HA HA. I dare you to do it!!!

You’ll be so sorry you did.

 

[ThirdEyeVision]

I think up to 115 F in the oven would be ok. But a food dehydrator would be better because of the fan. It would dry it faster. The less its exposed to heat, the better.

I dare all of you who think mescaline is heat stable to put all of your precious mescaline in the oven at 300 F for 1 hour. Take it out and then test out a dose orally. HA HA HA HA. I dare you to do it!!!

You’ll be so sorry you did.

Ron, mescaline HCL is relativly heat stable isn't it?

My friends food dehydrator is typically done at 145f is that not safe?

 

[Seven]

Thanks Ron, I might have to look into getting a food dehydrator. It takes too damn long in the oven.

 

[amor_fati]

Thanks Ron, I might have to look into getting a food dehydrator. It takes too damn long in the oven.

It's an incredible investment. Make sure it has adjustable temp.


SWIM has definitely noticed a decrease in potency from temps around 150F. SWIM would probably keep it closer to 100F as ron suggests.

 

[69ron]

I think up to 115 F in the oven would be ok. But a food dehydrator would be better because of the fan. It would dry it faster. The less its exposed to heat, the better.

I dare all of you who think mescaline is heat stable to put all of your precious mescaline in the oven at 300 F for 1 hour. Take it out and then test out a dose orally. HA HA HA HA. I dare you to do it!!!

You’ll be so sorry you did.

Ron, mescaline HCL is relativly heat stable isn't it?

My friends food dehydrator is typically done at 145f is that not safe?

I think mescaline HCl is more heat stable than mescaline acetate, but not much more so.

At some point SWIM or someone else here will probably do some tests to find out exactly which temperatures cause different forms of mescaline to degrade. Until that information is found, I suggest using as little heat as possible. Fan drying with a little heat is the best.

SWIM has an Excalibur food dehydrator that he uses. This has adjustable heat from 95-155 F. He uses it at 110-115 F and that seems to be ok for mescaline acetate and mescaline HCl.

Mescaline’s heat stability seems to also be very much time oriented, and dry heat seems worse for it. I think this has something to do with it oxidizing in dry heat. But I really don’t know for sure.

As of yet, SWIM has not done any temperature specific tests, but has always found that higher heat means a less potent end product. Too many other people have noticed potency loss when too much dry heat is used to dry their mescaline. Boiling mescaline in water seems less damaging to the molecule.

Clearly we need more tests done.

 

[Dorge]

In making a resin that was boiled in Lime stone paste infused water and then strained and the vinegar added and evaped in the oven at 300 degrees. the potency was not lost at all... if anything it appears to be stronger then if two table spoons of just dry skin where consumed on their own. yes it was in water to begin with but it dried in the oven at 300-350 and there was no damage as far as swim can tell. I am sure if you left some pure mescaline acetate or HCL in the oven at that temp you would not have a good reaction at all...
But this did not seem to cause any trouble.
and Swim thinks that not using heat in these sorts of water evaps will just waste time and energy.

 

[69ron]

Dorge, I'm sorry but I don't believe that one bit.

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM's experience with heat evapped mescaline acetate has been a somewhat unpleasant body feeling and an incredibly mild psychedelia. Likely oxidized mescaline doesn't cross the BBB very well. I believe ron's mentioned that possibility before.

 

[69ron]

SWIM has heat evaporated the same exact off-white mescaline acetate over and over several times, to find it go from an off-white crystal to a yellow/amber goo and lose it’s potency.

To me, that means it's oxidizing from the heat.

There’s one easy way to find out if it’s oxidizing or not. Put your mescaline in some hydrogen peroxide and then evaporate off the hydrogen peroxide. If it turns into a yellow/amber goo, then it’s definitely oxidizing.

 

[Dorge]

Dorge, I'm sorry but I don't believe that one bit.

swim doesnt really care if you believe it or not ron...
its damn near, way more active then two table spoons and it was evaped twice exposed to 300 degrees for at least 20 minutes.
the heat had no effect, nay it seems stronger... and swim has no reason to fib.
Swim just finds it way contrary to all swim has been hearing around here.
no idea why...
Swim is not evaping from a solvent but water and its a honey color not sticky at all

 

[69ron]

Dorge. Do you know the term psychosomatic?

I cannot believe your findings are anything other than that.

SWIM's tests all show that's completely wrong. Mescaline loses potency at that temperate for sure.

Others like Amor_fati have also found that heat is bad for mescaline. There are many others on the Nexus that also noticed it.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. How could mescaline get stronger from heat?

Maybe you're noticing the degradation of some of the other more heat sensitive sedative alkaloids, and that is giving the illusion it's more potent.

I guarantee that mescaline is not getting more potent from the heat. That's absolutely impossible and completely backwards from reality.