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Heating bufotenine in oven to remove impurities?

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prottel

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Since bufotenine has a high boiling point, 320C/608F, and probably even higher in a salt form, wouldn't it be possible to heat it in the oven at say 180C/356F to remove impurities?

It tried this with mimosa at 180C. All the tannins and oils was just gone. Tasted like water. Only problem is that it seems like the dmt also went. But this was dmt in its natural form in mimosa. Perhaps fumarate would work better.

I wouldn't recommend much over 180C since many materials starts to glow at higher temperatures, which probably would destroy any actives. But perhaps that would be possible after extracting it.
 
Actually one of the reasons the natives toast the seeds prior to use is to destroy most of the toxins in the seeds as well as dry them, making them easier to grind into snuff. They also toast them after mixing in the hydrated lime and water. So they are toasted before the alkaloids are freebased and then again after they are freebased. The second toasting would absolutely remove all 5-MeO-DMT and DMT traces form the seeds. All low boiling point alkaloids would be removed during the second toasting. Very few alkaloids have as high of a boiling point as bufotenine does. It’s likely that toasting gets rid of almost all the alkaloids except bufotenine and bufotenine N-Oxide. Bufotenine N-Oxide produces more side effects than bufotenine. Some seeds contain a ton of bufotenine N-Oxide. Unfortunately, I don’t think toasting destroys any of it.
 
69ron said:
Bufotenine N-Oxide produces more side effects than bufotenine. Some seeds contain a ton of bufotenine N-Oxide. Unfortunately, I don’t think toasting destroys any of it.
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Can one get rid of N-oxide by washing it in naphta?
 
I don't know what the toxins are exactly, but toasting them @ around 300-350 degrees F. burns them up, while not being hot enough to effect the Bufo, which vaporizes at 600-some degrees F.
Seems to work well...

WS
 
burnt said:
Interesting. Maybe if SWIM has some time he will analyze some cruder bufotenin by MS to try to figure out what else is in it besides bufotenin, just got instrument working again :lol:
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WOW!!

That is so cool to have something like that available to you & to know how to operate it!!

I'd would be really interested to know what is still in the extract that I've got here after doing:
Acetone pull/FASA/basify/D-Limo clean/toast/Acetone filter/dry & scrape up/D-Limo clean 2x/Re-FASA/Re-basify/Acetone filter again, dried & scraped up.
And it's still a bit tan.
What is it that's still hanging around?
I've tested a small amount & what I've got is definitely active, without any side effects (at least with small doses)!!

After toasting the second time, the extract is black (or mine was...), you need to dissolve in acetone & filter out the burnt-black stuff. I'm assuming these are more toxins because after drying the resulting acetone, the extract is much, much lighter colored & not sticky anymore at all.
I'd love to take the black crap from the post-toast filtering & test it, to see what is actually being burnt & removed.

69ron has talked about & posted pics of some gorgeous clear-to-white Bufo crystals with little areas of orange & black in it.
here: "name that crystal"
Damn that must have taken forever!!
Like artwork!!
If I remember correctly, I think he said he did an number of B-to-A-to-B cleanings & recrystallizing over & over again, using different solvents.
I think he mentioned using MEK/Heptain, Naptha, Acetone & Zylene (bleack!) at different times. And maybe he said he mixed some of them?
I just wonder how many times it took to get something that was freaking clear like that?!?!

I think Jokerst said he got clear crystals once too (I think using MEK/Heptane). But only one time, could not repeat it.:cry:

We'll crack this eventually, I dig the fact that we're kind working out the bugs of a new tek together!!
Without the internet connecting us right now this would take so much longer, as each person would have figure out each of these advances for themselves!!

Nice!!

WS
 
Yea SWIM has analyzed crude bufotenin before and only was able to detect bufotenin. But SWIM did not look in detail at the sample nor its constituents just wanted to ID bufotenin.

Bufotenin is a tough substance to recrystallize in SWIMs limited experience. Took forever to get it to happen with ethyl acetate. Couldn't get it to happen at all with acetone : heptane mixtures.

Either way SWIM will post some results if his imagination finds anything interesting.
 
Bufotenine N-Oxide will probably show up as bufotenine in your tests.

I think one of the main "toxins" in these seeds is actually bufotenine N-Oxide. Because of it's N-Oxide, it should cause much more side effects than bufotenine can and it should not be hallucinogenic because of it. The N-Oxide should make it super water soluble and unable to gain entry into the brain, and because of that, it should stay stuck in the body causing nothing but bodily symptoms. The N-Oxide should also make it sticky and cause it to fail to crystallize, much like how DMT N-Oxide and 5-MeO-DMT N-Oxide both fail to crystallize. It should also be brown or amber in color because of the N-Oxide. Impure bufotenine, the kind that makes you nauseated and feel lots of pressure in the head is often brown or bark amber. I think that’s bufotenine N-Oxide contamination. But this is all just speculation.
 
Pure white freebase bufotenine when vaporized doesn't cause any nausea at all for SWIM, even at very high doses (30 mg). But the impure amber stuff does, especially the sticky amber stuff, even when vaporizing low doses (5 mg-10 mg).

Pure bufotenine seems to always cause nausea when ingested orally, and I believe that’s because it passes through the digestive system and gets converted to bufotenine HCl which is extremely water soluble, so like bufotenine N-Oxide, it should stay stuck in the body and cause lots of side effects.
 
Bufotenine N-Oxide will probably show up as bufotenine in your tests.
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Yes n-oxides tend to degrade in a gas chromatograph. I am pretty sure they can be derivitized to make them more thermally stable however unsure of what reagent to use.

Pure bufotenine seems to always cause nausea when ingested orally, and I believe that’s because it passes through the digestive system and gets converted to bufotenine HCl which is extremely water soluble, so like bufotenine N-Oxide, it should stay stuck in the body and cause lots of side effects.
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Some compounds like cocaine get metabolized into n-oxides so its possible the bufotenin converts into n-oxide or some other metabolite unable to cross BBB.

I think one of the main "toxins" in these seeds is actually bufotenine N-Oxide. Because of it's N-Oxide, it should cause much more side effects than bufotenine can and it should not be hallucinogenic because of it. The N-Oxide should make it super water soluble and unable to gain entry into the brain, and because of that, it should stay stuck in the body causing nothing but bodily symptoms. The N-Oxide should also make it sticky and cause it to fail to crystallize, much like how DMT N-Oxide and 5-MeO-DMT N-Oxide both fail to crystallize. It should also be brown or amber in color because of the N-Oxide. Impure bufotenine, the kind that makes you nauseated and feel lots of pressure in the head is often brown or bark amber. I think that’s bufotenine N-Oxide contamination. But this is all just speculation.
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It certainly makes sense. But it would be interesting then because if the n-oxides are unstable at temperatures used on GC they should also degrade under the heating conditions people mention that help remove toxins. It would be interesting to observe this conversion.
 
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