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hell again

Migrated topic.
you seem to be caught up with ideas of death and the afterlife..that your blissful experiences somehow represent heaven and your difficult or negative ones represent hell. That may be true but I personally dont believe in heaven or hell as they pertain to the afterlife. I think we all live out our own personal heavens and hells in the here and now on planet earth. I dont believe that even the Hitlers of this world actaully die and go to any place like a "hell".

Worrying about where you are going when you die in the wake of experiences such as these I pesonally would think is not going to be very constructive. All you are going to do is get caught up in obsessive loops that take the focus away from what is going on today..and those loops will strengthen the pathways created by such experiences and in turn reinforce the state of mind.

Stop trying to talk to dead relatives or meet angles etc with DMT. Those things are just ideas that really are not about you at your core. They are abstractions and nothing more. The frustration of trying to push something like that along with the idea of a teeter tottering paradigm of a negative or positive afterlife that you derive from these experiences I think could really put alot of mental stress on a person.

That said, I find oral ayahuhuasca, pharma or analogues to be alot better for getting real work done. Smoking DMT is such a gamble at times..even just large doses of oral harmalas can allow for more healing alot of the time I find. You dont have to take the most giant dose of DMT just to get some real work done. I think approaching it that way is bound to throw anyone off at some point.

Also, you need to realize that it is okay to feel this way. It means you are human, so congratulations. The moment you can accept it and be okay with that reality, is when I think that you can truely begin to adress it. Then the work begins.
 
i appreciate what you are saying andits good theraputic advice. However just because you personally "believe" there is no true heaven or hell its about as worthless as me saying there is. Or a book saying its true. I personally go into life have ZERO preconcieved "beliefs". I'm a showme person and i need to experience it myself before i subscribe to any alternate reality or concept. Being literally emersed in a place LIKE heaven (...no...not christian heaven...this place is better) and also being in a place of neverending horrific torture and being told this placeis real...being screamed at by others never to come there and there is no escape. your "belief" that these things dont exists fails to convince me as i've walked the walk down the darkest paths and the streets of nirvana. I've come back with the absolute conviction that these places DO exist. I've literally traveled the world following, researching, and emersing myself into hotspots of paranormal. I run several websites regarding this topic. I do DMT to test the validity of an afterlife and to the potential reality of interdimensional entities. I am a 100% skeptic at heart and i need to live it breath it to believe it, not just read about it to formulate my belief system.

I have actually seen bigfoot in the high mountains after camping alone for days where supposed sightings had recently occured. I have seen aliens, i have seen ufos close up (not nuts and bolts structures as the media would have you believe). I to this day do NOT believe in ghosts, yet i have seen shadow people like entites cross my path. As a child i was haunted by sounds in my room, and voices whispering. I can go on and on, DMT was and is a direct tool to interact with this alterate reality which exists all around us, that we will all experince on the day we die. I've always feared that there are no great mysteries in life, there is no life after death. Look hard enough for these things and i fear they may equally seek you out.

My point being you can go through life and read books. listen to your local pastor or religious leader believe what you are spoon feed by the media and peers, or use every tool this alternate dimension has left behind for mankinds enlighenment (DMT being only one of many many such tools available to us) to peek behind the curtain. I choose to seek the truth at almost any risk possible, and feel i am just now suffering the consequences of knowing the unknowable.
 
"I have actually seen bigfoot in the high mountains after camping alone for days where supposed sightings had recently occured. I have seen aliens, i have seen ufos close up (not nuts and bolts structures as the media would have you believe). I to this day do NOT believe in ghosts, yet i have seen shadow people like entites cross my path. As a child i was haunted by sounds in my room, and voices whispering. I can go on and on, DMT was and is a direct tool to interact with this alterate reality which exists all around us, that we will all experince on the day we die. I've always feared that there are no great mysteries in life, there is no life after death. Look hard enough for these things and i fear they may equally seek you out."

I have been "taken" for as long as I can recall being alive. I have been on ships(without taking drugs) and seen things alot of people would want to lock me up over. I dont see how that means there is a heaven or a hell. I never said I dont belive in an afterlife, just that the things I have witnessed firsthand were valid enough for me to conclude that there is no heaven and hell after death.
 
fractal enchantment said:
just that the things I have witnessed firsthand were valid enough for me to conclude that there is no heaven and hell after death.
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from a logical perspective i had concluded the same notion of heaven/hell as you. this experience however made me question that whole mental construct. I havnt walked in your shoes i hope you experiences supersede my own regarding a validation of the afterlife. :) thanks for sharing btw.
 
skinwalker said:
I choose to seek the truth at almost any risk possible, and feel i am just now suffering the consequences of knowing the unknowable.
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Hey M8, you just had a bad trip and that's all. Don't make it a problem for yourself. As I mentioned before, if there's a place of pure suffering, I'm sure most of us would find it "familiar" if we would visit it on a trip. As I feel you are bugged by the matter that you found it familiar. Bad trips happen to some of us, we just have to put those things behind just as most things in life, nothing's permanent.

As what comes to afterlife, I see it like this: EVERYTHING is possible in the universe(s)/life, except the elimination of the spirit/consciousness which is in every one of us. Therefore for me, not being conscious after leaving this body seems absurd. What exactly is "total lack of consciousness"? That is, people who say that consciousness is just a bunch of electricity/biological processes in our brain/body, and so when there's no more current(after death), there would be no more consciousness. I think it is ridiculous to claim there will be no more consciousness, as to some would suggest "eternal blackout/eternal total lack of consciousness". Give me a brake(those people), where do you think we came from?😉
 
I think it is good to be aware that what spice often seems to be doing is mirroring your perceptions and experiences. What spice can show you is often just what you want or need to see. That does not make it self validating. The hyperspace experience may be the polar opposite of truth. Spice may at times be a trickster. It will lie as well as telling the truth. It will play on your fears. Beware of believing in any form of truth. The better thing to do is to look at your life and see where it relates to you.

The fact that you enter the experience wanting to meet angels and dead people suggests to me that your experience may well have been a reflection of your conceptions and beliefs. Just because an experience seems novel it doesn’t mean that it is. By the sounds of it your experience has more to do with you than anything outside of you.

Beware of looking for answers, more often than not you will be given questions, not answers. Look at yourself and see what you need to do here before thinking about the unknowable, this will serve you far better. Many of your statements suggest that you have a lot to deal with in this reality before you deal with another. Concentrate on your relationships here before your relationships with the dead.

The only heaven and hell we can truly know exist are right in front of us.
 
"The only heaven and hell we can truly know exist are right in front of us.'

i'm more of the mindset that this is pergatory. I always used to tell people this rightnow, this reality is the only "hell" that exists. I now ponder if this truely is that place between the two. Again i dont mean to slice this into a simplified christian afterlife scenario. I have seen hindu gods in hyperspace, and aztec ones... I know hyperspace is well...big and diverse.

"As I feel you are bugged by the matter that you found it familiar."

brother you really hit the nail on the head with that quote. That is exactly how i feel. If this was just a isolated hellish experience, i could easily integrate it and move forward. What bothers me is my seemingly inate familiarity with the place i was at and what would happen to me next. I couldnt tell if this sprung from a pervious spice experience or from before i ever tried spice. It was that immediate recognition of that hellish place that causes me to pause
 
I know that the nature of hyperspace has been the topic of extended debate. I don’t claim to have any answer. One very big possibility however is that it’s simply part of us and simply a reflection of us and our mindstate. Have you thought about the fact that this familiarity may stem from the fact that the experience is a facet of you?

I am very wary of coming to any firm conclusions from spice. I cannot see answers, just more questions.
 
very big possibility however is that it’s simply part of us and simply a reflection of us and our mindstate. Have you thought about the fact that this familiarity may stem from the fact that the experience is a facet of you?
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this is an agrument that is see no merit in, and reeks to me of ego inspired. I've recently read about some psyconaut magaizne author and apparent skeptic of dmt. I think his name was kent something. His belief after 15+ years of dmt usage is that is does NOT offer a glimspse into an alternative reality, but rather subscribes to the common argument that it is an inner reflection of the subconsciousness. His rational for this is that while in a DMT experience he can "think away the elves, or think them into existance".

Table of Contents

Psychedelic Information Theory: Shamanism in the Age of Reason is an examination of the nonlinear dynamics of hallucination and altered states of consciousness. by James Kent.
psychedelic-information-theory.com psychedelic-information-theory.com


This is 100% the opposite of my experience with dmt . I have absolutely NO control, even in my dreams i can control the outcome, or if too scary i can intervene and predetermine an outcome... Also the scenarios and landscape in the DMTverse are beyond anything i have had prior instruction or experience with, it is alien and new to me. My total lack of control and powerlessness also causes me to lean towards the alternate reality theory. Plus the HARDER i try to wish away events or entities , the MORE they push back and 1,000x harder than anything i am mentally capable of defending myself from. As always the best way is to simple accept, remain calm, and go with the flow of the event.

also as this event proved i experienced actual physical pain on a level i couldnt imagine exists. Even now as i am baseline i feel myself forgetting how extreme the pain was. Oddly i even came back with welts and redness on my wrist (no clue what from).
 
d*l*b said:
Beware of looking for answers, more often than not you will be given questions, not answers. Look at yourself and see what you need to do here before thinking about the unknowable, this will serve you far better. Many of your statements suggest that you have a lot to deal with in this reality before you deal with another. Concentrate on your relationships here before your relationships with the dead.
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Some good input from everybody but i feel a lot of what d*l*b has said rings especially important.

i interpret spice as the vehicle, rather than the destination selector. Learning to operate it, as opposed to it operating you is the tricky part.

the experiences and directions that the spice takes us on ,in this life time, will reflect upon our current 'location' to decide upon a suitable destination (even if it's not desirable at the time)

What I'm getting at, is that the process of life is extremely dynamic and fluid. If you are afraid that a similar experience awaits you, then realize that you are part of a universe that is collectively progressing ,mutating and evolving at any given moment, and You are part of this process. What happened the other day, does not mean that will happen to you for sure when you leave this third dimension.

Move with the natural, opportunity of adaptation you are always being presented with as opposed to fighting against it and reinforcing the outcome that you fear.

You have been presented with X...if X is not what you desire, you have the ability to gravitate towards Y
 
I'm a bit late in responding -- apologies -- but I thought that I would, nonetheless.

skinwalker said:
how have you dealt with your experience afterwords?
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I guess time takes care of things; the first couple of weeks after my experience I was consistently quite afraid; but as of late, fear is very rare (it's been almost 6 months).

I just wanted to write out some quotes from some of the above posts that rang true with my own experience.

Apoc said:
I would cry, "MERCY!!!! MERCY!!! OH GOD A MILLION TIMES MERCY!!!!!!"
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This, I remember: crying uncle immediately.

skinwalker said:
i cant tell if i'm too afraid now to ever try again. A sick sick sadistic part of me actually wants to experience that again the pain the suffering
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I felt this way for quite some time, too. I sometimes believed that I was, at my core, self-destructive.

skinwalker said:
the experience felt more alive than i am now, i had no idea a human mind can suffer to that degree...and it might have only been a minute in real time. The pain was somehow physical, seems impossible but it was.
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This all rings true for me, too.

Much love!
 
i'm still messed up from that experience till today, been almost a month now. Yikes. I think its a poor decision to be utilizing this drug at least to smoke or possibly inject. Too uncontrollable. Orally may be the way to go for a more controlled ride. i'm convinced this has somthing to do with demonic possession (again sorry sorry to get religious). I think alot of us are fooled by the CRAP the dmt elves show us ohhhhh look a glittering fkn egg, to blind us from seeing what is actually happened to our psyche. I know you guys will all bash me for this, but on the very off chance i am correct.... its a crappy gamble for your sanity and soul. I feel you are shown things to keep you intrigued, while something unbenknownst to you is happening negatively.


prayer, meditation, and fasting may be a cleaner route to "peek behind the curtain" than this method. I've always questioned the "entities" intentions and that gut feeling inside of me which i've been ignoring since i first started smoking dmt, now rings clearly and loudly to avoid, and to quit subjecting my soul to this punishment.
 
All you have to do is smoke less.

Worrying and misinterpreting an experience only complicates things.

I can only advise you to learn to let go and be content with the moment.

The fact of the matter is, you really have no idea what happened, and you know what? That is perfectly OK!!!! (NONE OF US DO)
 
skinwalker said:
i'm still messed up from that experience till today, been almost a month now. Yikes. I think its a poor decision to be utilizing this drug at least to smoke or possibly inject. Too uncontrollable. Orally may be the way to go for a more controlled ride. i'm convinced this has somthing to do with demonic possession (again sorry sorry to get religious). I think alot of us are fooled by the CRAP the dmt elves show us ohhhhh look a glittering fkn egg, to blind us from seeing what is actually happened to our psyche. I know you guys will all bash me for this, but on the very off chance i am correct.... its a crappy gamble for your sanity and soul. I feel you are shown things to keep you intrigued, while something unbenknownst to you is happening negatively.


prayer, meditation, and fasting may be a cleaner route to "peek behind the curtain" than this method. I've always questioned the "entities" intentions and that gut feeling inside of me which i've been ignoring since i first started smoking dmt, now rings clearly and loudly to avoid, and to quit subjecting my soul to this punishment.
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Come on man. Everyone is subject to death and the fears and pains associated with it. For some reason, death is a common archetype experienced by users. Death and dmt are linked. So, if you really don't like thinking about death at this point in life, take a break from dmt.... but don't blame the poor entities! They're innocent until proven guilty. And don't blame the substance.

Really, what do you think the entities might be doing to you? Killing you? Do you think you shorten your lifespan every time you smoke because the entities are damaging your life force? Whether you use dmt or not, you will die. Everyone will..... so to shy away completely from death I think is silly. It's part of life that I think should be addressed. I'm sure you don't shy away from death, but I'm just saying..... just because something is really scary doesn't mean it's evil. If death were evil, then the universe is evil as fuck because every living thing dies, and often suffers a good deal along the way.

You say you believe smoking dmt leaves the soul vulnerable to possession or something? Well, if that's true, how vulnerable do you think you will be when you actually die? Probably a lot more vulnerable. Do you think you'll be able to fend them off then? Let's just suppose that what you say is true about demonic possession. If it is possible for demons to possess people, then that's just another part of existence, and it must be happening all the time. What can you do about it? And if dmt somehow lets the guard down, then death completely lets the guard down. But I personally don't believe that hyperspace entities are like child rapists who temp us naive kids in to their evil vehicles by showing us candy, only to abuse us once we enter their realm.
 
۩ said:
All you have to do is smoke less.

Worrying and misinterpreting an experience only complicates things.
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I second that.

Also saying that prayer, meditation etc. is "the way to peek behind the curtain", well that's just your opinion. And honestly I would just say that if you would not smoke 60mg you maybe would not be so terrified by the experience.
One bad trip is one bad trip, it lasts as long as 5-30 minutes and it's gone, that is, GONE. All you have now is a memory and your mind that is misinterpreting it for afterlife and being afraid of going there again. I would say snap out of it, you can do it.

Most ridiculous thing you are doing is that you are blaming the substance, not yourself for the experience, and that's just plain wrong.

I strongly feel like when we smoke DMT, we summon our "oversoul/spirit", which is us, but has deep ways of its own, so therefore if you feel like you have been in hell before, maybe you were intimidated by it before and did not deal with it properly. Maybe this time the experience surfaced so you could finally face your fears, that's not uncommon with DMT. To face one's own fears.
 
I compare the unpleasant effects of overly high doses of DMT to listening to your favorite music at an overly high volume: When the volume of music is so high that it can cause physical damage, the music is no longer pleasant. It’s the same music as before, and in fact the music hasn’t changed at all. It’s the loudness or volume that has changed. The music doesn’t go from the best tune you’ve ever heard to the most “evil” sound you’ve ever heard. The music is the same, but your ears are no longer capable of handling the loudness.

So it is with DMT: Too high a dose can lead to very uncomfortable experiences. We interpret the discomfort to be “evil” or “sinister” or “demonic”, when in fact it’s just too intense for our minds to bear.
 
Apoc said:
skinwalker said:
i'm still messed up from that experience till today, been almost a month now. Yikes. I think its a poor decision to be utilizing this drug at least to smoke or possibly inject. Too uncontrollable. Orally may be the way to go for a more controlled ride. i'm convinced this has somthing to do with demonic possession (again sorry sorry to get religious). I think alot of us are fooled by the CRAP the dmt elves show us ohhhhh look a glittering fkn egg, to blind us from seeing what is actually happened to our psyche. I know you guys will all bash me for this, but on the very off chance i am correct.... its a crappy gamble for your sanity and soul. I feel you are shown things to keep you intrigued, while something unbenknownst to you is happening negatively.


prayer, meditation, and fasting may be a cleaner route to "peek behind the curtain" than this method. I've always questioned the "entities" intentions and that gut feeling inside of me which i've been ignoring since i first started smoking dmt, now rings clearly and loudly to avoid, and to quit subjecting my soul to this punishment.
Click to expand...

Come on man. Everyone is subject to death and the fears and pains associated with it. For some reason, death is a common archetype experienced by users. Death and dmt are linked. So, if you really don't like thinking about death at this point in life, take a break from dmt.... but don't blame the poor entities! They're innocent until proven guilty. And don't blame the substance.

Really, what do you think the entities might be doing to you? Killing you? Do you think you shorten your lifespan every time you smoke because the entities are damaging your life force? Whether you use dmt or not, you will die. Everyone will..... so to shy away completely from death I think is silly. It's part of life that I think should be addressed. I'm sure you don't shy away from death, but I'm just saying..... just because something is really scary doesn't mean it's evil. If death were evil, then the universe is evil as fuck because every living thing dies, and often suffers a good deal along the way.

You say you believe smoking dmt leaves the soul vulnerable to possession or something? Well, if that's true, how vulnerable do you think you will be when you actually die? Probably a lot more vulnerable. Do you think you'll be able to fend them off then? Let's just suppose that what you say is true about demonic possession. If it is possible for demons to possess people, then that's just another part of existence, and it must be happening all the time. What can you do about it? And if dmt somehow lets the guard down, then death completely lets the guard down. But I personally don't believe that hyperspace entities are like child rapists who temp us naive kids in to their evil vehicles by showing us candy, only to abuse us once we enter their realm.
Click to expand...


what foolish stupid things to write. where have i ever said i'm afraid of death lol.... I"M FCKN AFRAID OF THIS FCKN HELL PLACE THEY PUT ME IN. I could care less about death, ego death, or the bizarre shit i've seen on dmt. Do not dare underestimate me nor my experiences with the molecule.
 
I was looking at some of your early posts – around the time you first joined the Nexus – and even then you seemed preoccupied with evil interpretations of the DMT experience. It’s clear that DMT is just not for you.

It seems that some of your early ideas and preconceptions have colored many of your experiences. If you strongly believe that you’ll encounter evil (and you’ve been talking here about this for nearly a year), then you’ll encounter evil. Simple.
 
skinwalker said:
what foolish stupid things to write. where have i ever said i'm afraid of death lol.... I"M FCKN AFRAID OF THIS FCKN HELL PLACE THEY PUT ME IN. I could care less about death, ego death, or the bizarre shit i've seen on dmt. Do not dare underestimate me nor my experiences with the molecule.
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That's not an appropriate way to express yourself in this community. If you disagree with what someone said, please respectfully voice your opinion with the arguments why you think so. Calling what someone said as foolish and stupid, and finishing off with some kind of "threat", wont make anybody understand better, plus its really out of place, disrespectful and against our clearly stated attitude.

Please reflect for a while on how to communicate in the Nexus before making your next post.
 
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