Hello & a little account of my harmala journey so far

[Iff]

Hello everyone,

I came across this forum while searching the internet for syrian rue/harmala precisely while coming across the mention of it in this book 'Return to the brain of eden'. I have known Syrian Rue since 2021 when I first saw the seeds being harvested by a kind old lady in whose house I was living at that time in the mountains of Baltistan where it is a common practise to burn the seeds in the houses and also in streets and shops etc. A couple months later I moved to these mountains and started seeing the plant everywhere. I saw many plants growing on the mountain behind my house along with fragrant artemis. I noticed blooms in spring and the pods as they develop later - I was mainly just observing these plants all the while knowing these are psychoactive but never really trying for the lack of any credible account. I was intrigued by the plant and would spend time with it on my walks. At some point I declared it (in a journal entry) to be the sage of Baltistan.

I believe in things (people, places, plants, animals, books and so on) coming my wany when I need them the most. A few months ago, I had also come across an instagram profile with many beautiful photos of plants including syrian rue and naturally I followed. When we recently exchanged some messages, I asked many questions about Syrian rue and got helpful answers. I am not surprised to see them here on this forum too and the book was also their recommendation. Although in my head I was imagining doing a one time dose of syrian rue at some point to get to know it further and I was gathering information for that, I ended up choosing a longer and slower journey for myself - a daily tea in the morning.

I started this journey on 1st October and have been making tea with seeds from 3 pods. now I have made it 4 pods and more recently I have also been adding some green leaves I gathered from the desert. I have been keeping a journal to write down my day to day experience with the plant. In the first few days the effects were quite pronounced. I am gonna write here a few words or sentences from my journal that would describe my personal experience.

First 10 days

-sharper senses - smell for instance
-sound of my cat breathing the morning after
-rather sleepless
-stable mood a day before periods (previously I would experience an intense shift in my mood a day before)
-there's aliveness
-i smell vividly
-love, empathy and compassion
-some plants work by inducing hallucinations others by shattering illusions, the daily hallucinations we live with
-it's like I had a depression without knowing
-here's space before I react
-less hungry
-I can look at people's faces (something extremely difficult for me when I go out)
-less mind chatter


After the first 10 days when certain things changed in my environment and I was alone and unbothered, I felt a distinct shift in how I feel and also my journal entries which are getting longer and dealing with my personal anxieties now. These entries seem to be revolving around a getting at who am I really for this pops up again and again. Some highlights of this second leg of journey

-lost
-physically energetic despite eating less
-what's agitation - in mind and body?
-for a while now I had thought I knew something but I don't think so anymore
-total awareness - annhilation?
-reading has its merits but writing more
-be fucking quiet

The 2nd leg though a little intense feeling wise was rather purgatory in effect. A lot came out on paper. And the 3rd leg was still concerned mainly by personal enquiries. By now the daily tea is a morning ritual and has become not so prominent in the effects but in what it's trying to open up within me as I continue - this writing for I am very surprised to see how much I have written since the start of this journey. There are internal dialogues, reveries and what not.

"the initial euphoria didn't seep into the days after the first 1 week I would say. For then a deeply unsettling introspection began that took away my sleep for a while and soon became a routine of despair and dread. My projections also didn't last for a while. Through confusing they are comforting."

-how amazing to realize I can create
-autumn quiet
-the mighty organ of perception and how flawed it can be
-let's not make any day a graveyard of yesterday
-i wanna leave. Leave what? Leave to?
-between sense and nonsense. Nonsense I fear naturally.
-sun got caught in a cloud
-natural world is my anchor
-death renews
-i feel hollow
-please, be serious
-will gratefulness cure me of being so miserable?

A very pleasant shift in mood and energy was described on 1st Nov

"I feel my enthusiasm to have been renewed during my sleep. No, it started renewing when I put myself in very cold water."

soon to be followed by "I had other-ed myself."

A month later I can say I have quite enjoyed this journey and even though it has been unsettling in the middle, I believe it's been necessary to bring up to surface what's lurking quietly underneath and my morning tea has been playing some role. I intend to continue the tea to make it a total of 40 days. But a full moon is coming up soon and I am considering taking a more potent tea than I take regularly. I am not 100% sure what's potent for me. So suggestions?

Thank you for reading.

 

[Pumpy]

I am not 100% sure what's potent for me. So suggestions?

What a fantastic account of your lengthy experience. So good i think maybe the question at the end was overshadowed

I think your body's tolerance for harmalas is 2-3x baseline (maybe more but ihavenoidea). Here's my suggestion: I don't think it would be dangerous(for you) to take the tea from ten pods in a single dose for a couple of days and see.

 

[Iff]

What a fantastic account of your lengthy experience. So good i think maybe the question at the end was overshadowed

I think your body's tolerance for harmalas is 2-3x baseline (maybe more but ihavenoidea). Here's my suggestion: I don't think it would be dangerous(for you) to take the tea from ten pods in a single dose for a couple of days and see.

Thanks. I am very glad I decided to keep a journal for this and yes, it's not that little of an account I realized after writing the whole thing. And 10 sounds like a good number. Perhaps I will start with 7 and move on to 10.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Welcome to the nexus Iff

Very nice acount of your encounter with the harmala plant!

Regarding dosage, it's typically measured in grams, but I do like the idea of counting it in seed pods, especially if one has access to fresh rue. Each seed pod contains 30 to 50 seeds according to online sources, I find it hard to imagine 50 seeds in those little pods. I've only seen pods once on my plants and I don't recall how many seeds they had, I would have guessed 20 at most if I hadn't looked it up online. Could you please check how many seeds your pods have? I'm curious. Anyway let's go with 40!

A gram of rue is around 250 seeds so your dose of 4 pods must have been around 0.65g. Although in your case I assume you are using fresh rue, or rue that hasn't been stored for long, so it should be much more potent according to @dithyramb. A 7-10 seed pods sounds like a decent dose.

 

[Iff]

Welcome to the nexus Iff

Very nice acount of your encounter with the harmala plant!

Regarding dosage, it's typically measured in grams, but I do like the idea of counting it in seed pods, especially if one has access to fresh rue. Each seed pod contains 30 to 50 seeds according to online sources, I find it hard to imagine 50 seeds in those little pods. I've only seen pods once on my plants and I don't recall how many seeds they had, I would have guessed 20 at most if I hadn't looked it up online. Could you please check how many seeds your pods have? I'm curious. Anyway let's go with 40!

A gram of rue is around 250 seeds so your dose of 4 pods must have been around 0.65g. Although in your case I assume you are using fresh rue, or rue that hasn't been stored for long, so it should be much more potent according to @dithyramb. A 7-10 seed pods sounds like a decent dose.

Thank you Sakkadelic.

So I did count the seeds in a pod as you requested and turns out there are at least 70 seeds in one pod. And then I also weighed using my not so great kitchen scale and seeds from 7 pods came out to be a whole gram. I think your estimate is quite right for 4 pods. I made tea from 7 pods/1 gram today.

 

[northape]

in the mountains of Baltistan

Wow, please post some photos if you can. Your place must be truly scenic

 

[Sakkadelic]

Thank you Sakkadelic.

So I did count the seeds in a pod as you requested and turns out there are at least 70 seeds in one pod. And then I also weighed using my not so great kitchen scale and seeds from 7 pods came out to be a whole gram. I think your estimate is quite right for 4 pods. I made tea from 7 pods/1 gram today.

Oh wow! perhaps my plant is still young and the pods are small.

 

[Prima Materia]

@Iff
Thank you very much for sharing your story. I would love to read even more about your further experiences. Also some photos would be just awesome.

I love the slow approach you have taken, I believe this is the best possible way to work with these things. You might be ready to increase the dose and let the harmala guide and show you further.

Good luck!

 

[dithyramb]

Very nice to see someone harvesting and using fresh seeds!

Here are some photos from this year's harvest from me:

 

[Transform]

Very nice to see someone harvesting and using fresh seeds!

Here are some photos from this year's harvest from me:

Great to see the sprawling natural habit of the plants in the wild. This gives me more confidence regarding the state of my potted specimen

@Iff - thanks for the wonderful account of your journey so far! With 7 - 10 pods you'll likely start to encounter the more visionary (and possibly incapacitating) side of the rue plant.

Be ready to make yourself comfortable, and stay aware of your facial expression.

 

[dithyramb]

The more humidity/rain it gets exposed to, the more it sprawls. İf it sprawls before turning yellow it can indicate weak potency, ime. My understanding is that it needs dryness during the seeds' ripening phase to produce the alkaloids.

 

[murklan]

Very nice to see someone harvesting and using fresh seeds!

Here are some photos from this year's harvest from me:

Great to see the plant in the wild! I've been building a relationship with Rue for perhaps three years now. I've only bought it through commercial ways (as Espand) and really don't know the geographical source. Glad to see your photos and I hope I one day will find better, more relational ways to have Rue in my home then to just buy them in a shop.

 

[ommani]

Thank you for sharing this detailed report. It’s extremely interesting that you’re writing from Baltistan, and I think you’re lucky to have easy access to wild Rue. I actually just got some Shilajit that is supposedly from the Himalayas of Pakistan, but for all I know, it could be liquified yak dung, which is kind of what it tastes like. Anyway, if I was living in that part of the world, I would certainly be foraging wild Rue, along with wild hemp to mix with the local hash.

Incidentally, I also started taking daily, low doses of Rue, recently (today was day 8 for me). I’ve been taking around 500mg of toasted Rue, per day, which feels, more or less, like the sweet spot. I took 1g one day last week, and that felt like too much for a work day, though it would have been fine for the weekend.

What I’ve been noticing, so far, is a sense of calmness that I had been lacking, along with some antidepressant effects, which I’ve been needing. The anxiolytic and antidepressant effects seem to make me more sociable, which I greatly appreciate. On a deeper level, Rue seems to have heart-opening effects, which is among its qualities that I most value, along with its apparent capacity to elicit creative thinking and insight.

 

[Iff]

Wow, please post some photos if you can. Your place must be truly scenic

It is scenic, indeed

Here are some photos from the desert where I last collected some pods and some leaves that were still green. I do think I am quite late in picking up these pods but I have only gotten to consuming the seeds now.

@

 

[Iff]

Oh wow! perhaps my plant is still young and the pods are small.

That and I do see that pods gathered from different sites have different sizes. The last ones I got from desert are very bright and big pods.

 

[Iff]

@Iff
Thank you very much for sharing your story. I would love to read even more about your further experiences. Also some photos would be just awesome.

I love the slow approach you have taken, I believe this is the best possible way to work with these things. You might be ready to increase the dose and let the harmala guide and show you further.

Good luck!

Thank you. I have posted some photos above. And the slow approach seems to be not disruptive at all which is what I had always assumed it would be and which it would be I guess when one takes a bigger dose.

 

[Iff]

Great to see the sprawling natural habit of the plants in the wild. This gives me more confidence regarding the state of my potted specimen

@Iff - thanks for the wonderful account of your journey so far! With 7 - 10 pods you'll likely start to encounter the more visionary (and possibly incapacitating) side of the rue plant.

Be ready to make yourself comfortable, and stay aware of your facial expression.

I would love some visions if they come my way. Based on my past experiences with let's say mushrooms, I don't think my experiences are of visionary nature but incapacitating will have to be dedicated a day/days for
And what do you say about facial expression?

 

[Iff]

Very nice to see someone harvesting and using fresh seeds!

Here are some photos from this year's harvest from me:

Thank you for sharing photos and a little insight on sprawling - I am gonna observe. It just might take another year though

What would you say is the best time to harvest the pods?

 

[dithyramb]

Beautiful photos, @Iff, thank you! Quite different morphology to the ones I see here. Another strain for sure.

About the time to harvest. What I can say for sure is that wait at least until the pods crack open. Afaik, most or all store sold seeds are harvested before that and are thus still not full in potency or ripe in spirit. As far as what the exact trajectory of transformation is after basic ripening, in my experience, it seems to get less "toxic"/rough, but more potent and heavy with more harmaline, which I am a great fan of. The seeds are alive; even when the branches that hold them completely die, they continue metabolism and secondary metabolite production. Very notably, this metabolism process seems to come to a halt after harvesting, and "the spirit dims down" and there is a potency and quality loss in a matter of days to weeks. İt appears so far that after December the peak is passed and the life energy and nutrients in the seeds are depleted and the potency/spirit starts weakening. September seeds, October seeds, November seeds are all different ime. Please don't take my experience as the final word and contribute your own data to help construct an objective model of rue seed quality through the months. İt most likely varies from region to region too.

İf you want to experience the full rue magic, eat the seeds right off the capsules. Mixing DMT makes it too wild and harsh but if you are in for the challenge, do as you please.

 

[Iff]

Thank you for sharing this detailed report. It’s extremely interesting that you’re writing from Baltistan, and I think you’re lucky to have easy access to wild Rue. I actually just got some Shilajit that is supposedly from the Himalayas of Pakistan, but for all I know, it could be liquified yak dung, which is kind of what it tastes like. Anyway, if I was living in that part of the world, I would certainly be foraging wild Rue, along with wild hemp to mix with the local hash.

Incidentally, I also started taking daily, low doses of Rue, recently (today was day 8 for me). I’ve been taking around 500mg of toasted Rue, per day, which feels, more or less, like the sweet spot. I took 1g one day last week, and that felt like too much for a work day, though it would have been fine for the weekend.

What I’ve been noticing, so far, is a sense of calmness that I had been lacking, along with some antidepressant effects, which I’ve been needing. The anxiolytic and antidepressant effects seem to make me more sociable, which I greatly appreciate. On a deeper level, Rue seems to have heart-opening effects, which is among its qualities that I most value, along with its apparent capacity to elicit creative thinking and insight.

Shilajit is tricky. Even I would be doubtful since it has gotten pretty commercial now.
Rue is plenty in Baltistan but hemp, not really - it doesn't grow wild here except for the seeds I am spreading But I do grow my own and I have not mixed the two except for 1-2 times for smoking.

Are you eating the toasted seeds?

I have only made it to a gram yesterday (for tea that is) and I am feeling the effects to be more or less the same as they were in the first week - the calm is back, there's no urge to write gibberish in my journal describing my internal states and dialogues - I only wrote "it's calm and quiet. I smell better - the outsides. The insides are quiet." I did have an interesting question come up regarding naming feelings that I am probably gonna take forward today. it went something like this:

"when I feel something new/unusual/not something I am used to feeling, how do I know what am I feeling? I don't know the name and that's not all. How do i not confuse the new feeling and respond with rejection, hatred and all that I am used to feel towards unknown?"