I can provide diagrams if it would help 
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Hello & a little account of my harmala journey so far
- Thread starter Iff
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- harmala moon syrian rue
You are trying to recite some ancient magic here, it seems. O Great Wizard, can you say it in simple terms for a normal farmer to understand?
First, a small glossary:
EDIT: ah, yes!
- Cyclisation = joining up into a ring
- Isomerisation = changing position of some parts
- Precursor = input material
EDIT: ah, yes!
- Putative = we're not really sure but here's a reasonable idea
I somehow deciphered your message and see it as a confirmation of mine. Basically, we do not know how the enzymes work in rue and need more research into harmala alkaloid biosynthesis.
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One more thing for @Iff and anyone else looking into diving into rue.
Like I said, being on an empty stomach is important. And there actually really is a rue diet apart from maoi contraindications, in my decade and a half long extensive experience. Processed or fried foods are just unideal. Red meat hinders the depth of the experience. Dairy, especially butter or ghee, and garlic and onions are the things that can completely block the experience. Abstaining from these foods from at least the day before would be constructive for a decent rue immersion and healing. There are other things too, but these are the basics.
Like I said, being on an empty stomach is important. And there actually really is a rue diet apart from maoi contraindications, in my decade and a half long extensive experience. Processed or fried foods are just unideal. Red meat hinders the depth of the experience. Dairy, especially butter or ghee, and garlic and onions are the things that can completely block the experience. Abstaining from these foods from at least the day before would be constructive for a decent rue immersion and healing. There are other things too, but these are the basics.
What a lovely thread 
Welcome to the nexus Iff! To see the plant in such a stunning natural environment must be incredible to say the least
The sober night-time vision delay faded but weed can sometimes trigger the delay for me and can get similar to harmalas in its psychedelic aspects. I don't know if this was hacking the brain's endogenous beta carboline production or what. I wish I understood the neurochemistry. I would often fall asleep on harmalas and have dreams where it felt like I'd taken a much larger amount than I did, and I'd have to sit down in dreamland because of the nausea
I really adore the cannabis/harmala combination. Smoothens the weed anxiety and the psychedelic aspects of both really blossom and synergize for me. I always found it fascinating how I would be in a trance and suddenly realize I could visually see my thoughts, then they'd fade like an after-image. Tho that happens with harmalas alone of course too
You guys are wild eating the seeds! Fresh seeds sound interesting but I can't imagine chewing these dried seeds, they're hard as a rock. Do you really notice a significant difference in effects in chewing vs grinding them up or making tea?
Welcome to the nexus Iff! To see the plant in such a stunning natural environment must be incredible to say the least
I don't work with harmalas/rue so much lately, but for several years I took some form of harmalas or other almost daily. I'm not sure how much my copious melatonin consumption and weird diet played a role in this (funnily enough, inspired by the book you mentioned @Iff) but eventually I noticed a more subtle vision delay effect late at night even when not taking harmalas (I referred to it as a stutter-vision) and a massive reverse tolerance to harmalas.
The sober night-time vision delay faded but weed can sometimes trigger the delay for me and can get similar to harmalas in its psychedelic aspects. I don't know if this was hacking the brain's endogenous beta carboline production or what. I wish I understood the neurochemistry. I would often fall asleep on harmalas and have dreams where it felt like I'd taken a much larger amount than I did, and I'd have to sit down in dreamland because of the nausea
I really adore the cannabis/harmala combination. Smoothens the weed anxiety and the psychedelic aspects of both really blossom and synergize for me. I always found it fascinating how I would be in a trance and suddenly realize I could visually see my thoughts, then they'd fade like an after-image. Tho that happens with harmalas alone of course too
You guys are wild eating the seeds! Fresh seeds sound interesting but I can't imagine chewing these dried seeds, they're hard as a rock. Do you really notice a significant difference in effects in chewing vs grinding them up or making tea?
Thanks for sharing, @universecannon! Yeah, the seeds are much softer when fresh.
Today I discovered yet another strain. And what a strain...
The reason for me to go on this discovery quest this year was because the original strain I was harvesting and working with for a decade and a half, which was extraordinarily potent and magical, lost it's potency and magic for yet a mysterious reason.
When it comes to rue, there is potent and there is potent. Some seeds will do their role in an Aya analogue perfectly. Yet other strains, when eaten fresh, nothing else added, can give you a full on psychedelic, magical, deeply healing experience...
Sacredness forbids words. So this is all I can write...
@Thierr7, yes, but it needs to be used in the right way. For a specific given person, the right way may or may not involve using rue... For sure one would need to work on many other levels than just ingesting rue. So only if you already have a solid healing protocol, then rue can be another support.
Today I discovered yet another strain. And what a strain...
The reason for me to go on this discovery quest this year was because the original strain I was harvesting and working with for a decade and a half, which was extraordinarily potent and magical, lost it's potency and magic for yet a mysterious reason.
When it comes to rue, there is potent and there is potent. Some seeds will do their role in an Aya analogue perfectly. Yet other strains, when eaten fresh, nothing else added, can give you a full on psychedelic, magical, deeply healing experience...
Sacredness forbids words. So this is all I can write...
@Thierr7, yes, but it needs to be used in the right way. For a specific given person, the right way may or may not involve using rue... For sure one would need to work on many other levels than just ingesting rue. So only if you already have a solid healing protocol, then rue can be another support.
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Dried seeds is the reason I soak my sublingually/buccally overnight, then they're easily soft enough to chew and quid a bit more straight off the bat on waking up in the (hopefully) morning. A generous pinch gives a noticeable lift as well as making its own special contribution to my morning meditations, particularly in exploring the hypnogogic/hypnopompic boundary and various modes of more or less waking consciousness in entering and sustaining that state. There are some interesting levels to be accessed, undoubtedly.
Oh, and while I hardly ever smoke weed these days, I did fairly recently share a pure weed joint with a generous helping of ground harmala seeds added to it. The effects of both were highly complementary.
Yuxibu
Established member
Have you tried to do it in a shamanic diet style?
This thread actually inspired me to start my own journey with rue and I think I'll go with that approach. That includes pretty much everything you mentioned and sweets, salt, most type of fats and some other behavioral restrictions like sexual intercourse or any type of exchange of energy, being in isolation, in nature etc.
I've done some traditional dietas with the indigenous people and that led me to do some experimentation with local plants like rose, mugworth or rosemary. And I realized you can connect pretty much with any plant spirit that way, and each one of them have their own gifts.
Some of the indigenous I know dieted caapi this way for 3 months in isolation to deepen the connection with Ayahuasca.
And while I mostly know what to expect from Ayahuasca (in the sense that the visions, messages and metaphors are all closely related to the amazonian jungle cosmovision), rue seems so vast and mysterious.
I definitely want to go as deep as possible while building a relationship with this plant.
When it comes to Harmala the Nexus lights up. What a great thread!
ommani
Titanium Teammate
Today was day 12 of daily rue for me, and it seems to be going well. Tonight, I weighed out 0.5g of *untoasted* seeds and am soaking them overnight to chew up in the morning. I’m thinking this will probably be stronger than my daily 0.5g of the ground up/toasted seeds that I’ve taking, which has been lending itself well to the workweek (I don’t think of it as “microdosing” but as taking the full amount that corresponds with the level of effects that I am generally aiming for).
I really wonder about how much of this (common, frequently reported) effect is due to unconscious expectations. I have never had a single jungle-themed experience with any plant or substance, including caapi. I've sometimes seen colorful snakes, but I see those with 2C-B as well.
The latest visions I've had with caapi that corresponded to somewhere else were Sumerian cities and buildings, and the desert.
I'm just wondering out loud, it's not like there's a way to find an answer (maybe with double blind experiments with inexperienced people, but that's nothing we can do).
Pumpy
Titanium Teammate
I love this thread!
I believe it is mostly. Or at least i can report zero anything amazon or jungle. telepathic aliens sure
Yuxibu
Established member
In my case it's the opposite. The repetition of such experience ended up creating those expectations.
I would say that having spent 3 years with the indigenous communities right after my second Ayahuasca experience 15 years ago probably influenced the experience as well.
Set and setting might help as well, since most my chants and prayers while drinking or cooking the medicine come from such traditions.
Holy cow! My first ayahuasca experience featured telepathic aliens really heavily! What were the key features for you when encountering this?I love this thread!
I believe it is mostly. Or at least i can report zero anything amazon or jungle. telepathic aliens sure
Nothing particularly Amazon-related in my quarter either, and I'm sure it was a caapi brew.
@YuxibuSounds, yes I have, a few times in full isolation. Please let us know how your diet goes if you do it. Make sure to find rue that really calls you.
@blig-blug, ime plants have their own unique characteristic visionary worlds independent from people. As an example, the rue strain that I worked intensely with for many years always gave visions of pyramids, birds of prey, and water fowl. There is no widespread shamanistic culture involving rue here, and animal spirits and pyramids are not part of the culture. Pyramids are not my field of interest. The latest strain I tested which I have just one strong experience with very clearly gave me visions of vast steppe landscapes with wild rues growing all over the place. The previous new rue strain which I have a few experiences with just gave hexagonal lattices and visions of people. İt seems to me that plants give characteristic visions (which is an extension of their characteristic spirits) much more so when they are relatively fresh. Traditional Ayahuasca is made from fresh material and the brew is not stored long term.
The esoteric spiritual tradition of this land has a strong theme of purification and aligning with capital T Truth, and the rue spirit in general is quite a force in these regards. İt was not an expectation for me, but I consistently feel this vibe from rue.
@blig-blug, ime plants have their own unique characteristic visionary worlds independent from people. As an example, the rue strain that I worked intensely with for many years always gave visions of pyramids, birds of prey, and water fowl. There is no widespread shamanistic culture involving rue here, and animal spirits and pyramids are not part of the culture. Pyramids are not my field of interest. The latest strain I tested which I have just one strong experience with very clearly gave me visions of vast steppe landscapes with wild rues growing all over the place. The previous new rue strain which I have a few experiences with just gave hexagonal lattices and visions of people. İt seems to me that plants give characteristic visions (which is an extension of their characteristic spirits) much more so when they are relatively fresh. Traditional Ayahuasca is made from fresh material and the brew is not stored long term.
The esoteric spiritual tradition of this land has a strong theme of purification and aligning with capital T Truth, and the rue spirit in general is quite a force in these regards. İt was not an expectation for me, but I consistently feel this vibe from rue.
I was reflecting today on how each of the batches of rue I've tried all have their own character. Now it makes me wonder whether they're amenable to being blended, or if this would amount to sacrilege
Yuxibu
Established member
Do you have any experience report on that?
Unfortunately where I live there's no rue on the wilderness, I managed to germinate a few but it was already at the end of summer when they sprouted.. as long they survive the winter I might have some next year.
Other than that I have 3 different batches, one from Afghanistan, one from turkey and one from Brasil. I really like the Brasilian one, the other 2 I haven't tried yet. I'll probably try them out before starting but I'm already very inclined to do it with the Brasilian rue.