Help me integrated this Please. Strange story

[Maticosieniekawali]

Hi everyone, my last changa journey was around 6 years ago… and it was unbelievably unusual.

In total I’ve had around 10 trips. All of them were positive and educational — never truly negative, at most neutral. I want to describe one experience that I searched for on forums for hours and never found anything similar to. I hope someone can help me interpret and integrate it so maybe one day I can return there again.

I won’t focus on all the trips, only the last two, because they felt connected. The second journey, which happened a few weeks later, felt like a continuation of the first. This only ever happened once, and afterward I never again felt the need to go “there” until now — but the fear of it has always been huge.

Trip #1

The first trip was with two close friends. We approached it very seriously: long meditation beforehand, cleaning the space together, lights, music, special diet for days before, etc. — a fully respectful ceremonial approach.

The three of us smoked at the same moment and the trip began. At first, we all saw the same thing. We were flying at enormous speed, like at the beginning of many DMT experiences, all together on some kind of flying carpet-like object.

After the trip, we all agreed that I had somehow become the “leader” of the group — the one who was least afraid and wanted to protect the others.

At some point, me and one friend were pulled into the same world, while the third friend went somewhere completely different.

The two of us entered a dark black-and-grey realm where there was nothing except darkness. Out of the darkness emerged three tall floating figures — completely black, thin, faceless beings. Or maybe they had faces and I simply couldn’t look at them properly; I still don’t know.

They seemed surprised that we were there and deeply curious about us. They wanted to touch us.

From the very beginning I resisted them and absolutely did not want to allow it. My friend allowed them to touch him immediately.

The moment that happened, our connection disappeared and they took him away. He was simply gone. I remained alone there, fighting those beings, dodging them so they couldn’t touch me.

This was the first and only time in the DMT world that I became aggressive and vulgar. I got furious at them, but I was much weaker than they were. All I could do was avoid their fingers and insult them.

I felt they had bad intentions toward me — I had never encountered entities like that before — and I felt I absolutely could not let them touch me.

And somehow… I succeeded.

Suddenly I was pulled into another place that was incredibly positive. At one point I even entered a world where the second friend was — something like a candy-colored playground universe. But it wasn’t my kind of place, so I wanted to leave quickly, and I did. The elves there seemed “positive,” but somehow fake to me, even though they weren’t doing anything harmful.

The rest of the trip involved several more places, all deeply pleasant and insightful. I could open my eyes, but it made no difference — open-eye and closed-eye reality were the same.

I felt I had completely surrendered myself to the experience and was returning to reality happy. I made it. It was my first truly conscious, full 100% breakthrough. I felt amazing.

But then, after returning, I looked at the friend who had allowed them to touch him…

He was wrapped in a blanket in a shape resembling a coffin. He looked terrible, so I asked him if he was okay.

He answered:

“No. I died.”

Then he opened his eyes… and his eyes were not his.

I’ve known him for 20 years. We’ve been through a lot together, but I had never seen eyes like that on him. They were dark and full of emptiness.

Then, in a voice that didn’t sound like his own, with a disturbing smile, he asked me:

“CAN I TOUCH YOU?”

I confidently answered: “NO.”

He replied that it was fine, that he would only watch me. Then he started making strange animal-like sounds under his breath and twisting his body into unnatural positions unlike anything I’d ever seen him do before.

If not for the fact that I’m physically much larger and stronger than him, I honestly think I would have been terrified.

This state lasted around 70 hours after the trip.

After 48 hours he called me and said he still felt possessed, that his eyes still didn’t feel like his own. Even his wife told him he seemed strange and asked why his eyes looked different.

He was terrified because even though he had returned to ordinary reality, he still felt another presence inside him.

After around 70 hours he called again and said he had finally “woken up” and felt like himself again.

This was many years ago and it never returned. To this day he is healthy and a happy father and husband.

---

Trip #2 (a few weeks later)

This time we smoked the exact same changa, but without the friend who had been “touched.”

The preparation that day was poor: the house was messy, no diet, and I physically felt terrible that day.

After the first hit, neither of us felt anything at all. We decided to wait half an hour and try again.

The second time, we were both taken into separate places… and unfortunately I was immediately taken back to that place.

The moment I broke through to the other side, they were already there — the same three shadow entities I had encountered before, the ones I resisted while my friend surrendered immediately.

This time they were waiting for me. I didn’t even have time to react before they touched me. It felt like a planned ambush.

The instant it happened, I felt pain, suffering, and a massive drain of energy… and then I was violently thrown back into reality.

For a brief moment after they touched me, I saw only a black screen — like I had been completely logged out. Then suddenly I was back on Earth.

Afterward I felt immediately and extremely dehydrated, almost like a severe illness had suddenly hit me.

The next 3 days were a nightmare: high fever, vomiting, diarrhea, full-body pain, complete exhaustion.

After that I never again had the courage to try returning there. The sheer power of that experience terrified me.

But now, almost 6 years later, my thoughts are returning to it again. I’m no longer as afraid, and I want to understand it and integrate it within myself.

Can anyone offer their perspective on this?

Wishing all of you the best

 

[Maticosieniekawali]

they look like this

 

[Transform]

OK, that sounds like it was a disturbing set of circumstances, but lets get rational about the situation surrounding the second trip in particular - it sounds as though you'd been neglecting yourself a bit, and it's entirely possible you were about to come down with the illness that you experienced in any case. Being in that pre-sickness state won't have made your changa journey any more pleasant.

I've more to say, but I need to dash off for a bit.

 

[Maticosieniekawali]

I agree with you, Transform — the second trip is relatively easy to explain and accept, and that’s exactly how feel it. But … after their “touch,” I didn’t experience anything paranormal, apart from temporary unpleasant feelings.

What remains completely incomprehensible to me to this day is the situation involving my friend. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced before. Setting and herbs was the same like previous trips.

If anyone can offer their perspective on this, I would be incredibly grateful.

Thank you, Transform, for your reply. I hope you’ll still find a moment to reflect on trip number one and what continues to trouble me about it.

That experience happened six years ago. From that moment until two weeks ago, I never even thought about the world of DMT again because of how deeply those figures frightened me — not really because of them, but because of the overwhelming helplessness I felt in their presence. Even talking about them with friends would bring back fear and an intense sense of humility.

Today, the fear is gone. What remains is humility and a desire to understand this experience.

Thank you.

 

[Transform]

Yes itss bizarre. I thought more about it today and, in the case of your friend, the rational suggestion that swrings to mind is that he experienced some kind of unexpected neuroplasticity event which gave rise to his alarming sensations. Having ones brain suddenly developing a whole new set of neuronal configurations might well feel like hving an additional "foreign" or "alien" personality on board contemporaneously with tie pre-existing one. Maybe it's also a matter of what his character was likes, and how strongly ingrained it was, prior to that point.

Then there's the question of what cultural influences you might have had going on back then. At first glance, the beings you report having encountered seem decidedly reminiscent of the dementors from Harry Potter.

Remember, use of psychedelics can give rise to an extreme heightening of ones suggestibility. Plus, six years ago there was that looming spectre of a global pandemic going on - how far into proceedings had we got at the time of trip #1?

 

[Sawwhet]

This was a deep and challenging set of experiences for you. I commend your willingness to face it and seek an understanding of what happened, rather than forget and bury it. This is a tricky subject, because it can be dealt with from the more rational, structural perspective that Transform is suggesting - which is indeed extremely helpful and important to do - or you can treat it with full ontological openness and assume those beings were truly outside of you, and truly did inflict damage upon you and your friend as external “enemies”. At the end of the day, I’d say it’s a little of both, and that leaving out one perspective in favor of the other isn’t helpful. But then again, it’s not entirely satisfying to say what I’ve just said - that “it’s both”. That loop can go on forever.

I think it’s important to remember a couple of things:

1. That the experiences you’ve described have happened to many, many, MANY people all over the world all throughout history. And they always will. And psychedelic drugs are by no means required to experience such things. If you haven’t already, it might be helpful to check out the work of authors like Jeffery Kripal, Joshua Cutchin and Jacques Valle. They deal with anomalous experiences in a way that keeps the discussion open to the subjective nature of what’s been experienced, while staying reserved about anything teetering into woo. None of them claim to have any answers, but their work might help to provide some grounding for you, while providing some food for thought. I’ll repeat that you are not alone in what you’ve gone through. I’ve even had some of my own.

2. Similar to what Transform said, don’t forget that psychedelics do open you up to pretty much anything and everything. And they do it in a very rapid, sudden manner. DMT especially. When unexpectedly hit full-force by something like this, it can be legitimately traumatizing. Take things slow and never forget the simple power of attending to the daily essentials of life.

I know that you’re going to make sense of these things with time. Remember that there’s always a little more mystery around every corner. Keep building strength and keep up on good habits. You’ll be okay!

 

[blig-blug]

Yes itss bizarre. I thought more about it today and, in the case of your friend, the rational suggestion that swrings to mind is that he experienced some kind of unexpected neuroplasticity event which gave rise to his alarming sensations. Having ones brain suddenly developing a whole new set of neuronal configurations might well feel like hving an additional "foreign" or "alien" personality on board contemporaneously with tie pre-existing one. Maybe it's also a matter of what his character was likes, and how strongly ingrained it was, prior to that point.

I think a neurological explanation is a bit far-fetched in comparison to a psychological one.

Apparent possession is not that uncommon, and it's a feature in some religions such as Voodoo, Umbanda, and Barquinha. The latter uses Ayahuasca, but the first two don't, and most religions featuring possession don't use any substance for it. Then there are those where possession is considered possible and negative, like most of Christianity, that is likely to be the main influence into how to regard those phenomena for anyone born in a Western society, even if it's only through the impact of movies.

The mechanism of those possession-like experiences is not know, of course, so it could be fully neurological. However I think it's unlikely that participants in e.g. Umbanda rituals suddenly grow new neuronal connections forming a new personality in a few seconds.

We do know that "personality" is not a fixed thing, and that it can be often seen to be composed of many parts, some of which may not be well integrated, as it often happens in trauma. I think it's likely that your friend was just becoming aware of a side of himself (maybe a "shadow" in Jungian terms) that he hadn't been fully aware of, and wasn't well integrated. And so his reaction was to act out said side. If we add to it that his cultural background about "possession", then it makes a lot of sense that he would behave that way. This is one possibility.

Another possibility is that he was on the edge of psychosis (which is not well understood and could very well be in many cases the consequence of a poorly integrated personality). Psychosis often features the feeling that one's thoughts are being controlled from the outside, etc., and psychedelics can trigger psychosis in people who are vulnerable to it. This case doesn't sound like full-blown psychosis, but it could have been a state close to it.

As for the experience of terrifying environments of beings under the influence of psychedelics, I encourage you to focus more in how it felt emotionally and somatically than in any of its specific images and forms, as the latter very often seem to be cultural or environmental influences, as @Transform points out. I see those as a mask or sometimes a symbol of something else. From my perspective, these "dark spaces" are actually inside you, and the best way to realize that and connect with them bypassing the feeling of it being something external is to pay attention to the emotions and bodily feelings associated to them. IME these frightening experiences seem to be a "call for attention" from some aspect of you that has been ignored or neglected. Paying attention to it and avoiding the temptation to try to escape it very often makes them change into something much less fearsome, and lets emotions other than fear arise.

All the above is a mix of speculation and personal experience, this ultimately depends a lot on your perspective of reality. I encourage you to give a chance to the hypothesis that said experience was psychological and not corresponding to something outside you, and investigate the hypothesis. People who get fixated in explaining their negative experiences as corresponding to external evil entities and places tend to get more and more scared, dissociated, and detached from reality. So regardless of the reality of that explanation, the practical results of that framing don't seem to be too good.

 

[Jamie01]

I don’t believe everything we experience on DMT comes from inside our own heads. Your playing roulette in a way and psychedelics can be more like a ouija board on steroids at times. You likely never really will know what happened…how could you? Sometimes I feel like we are all on here opening ourselves up to forces that we just don’t understand and the idea that we will somehow integrate every experience is laughable and probly not possible.

 

[Maticosieniekawali]

OK, that sounds like it was a disturbing set of circumstances, but lets get rational about the situation surrounding the second trip in particular - it sounds as though you'd been neglecting yourself a bit, and it's entirely possible you were about to come down with the illness that you experienced in any case. Being in that pre-sickness state won't have made your changa journey any more pleasant.

I've more to say, but I need to dash off for a bit.

I think a neurological explanation is a bit far-fetched in comparison to a psychological one.

Apparent possession is not that uncommon, and it's a feature in some religions such as Voodoo, Umbanda, and Barquinha. The latter uses Ayahuasca, but the first two don't, and most religions featuring possession don't use any substance for it. Then there are those where possession is considered possible and negative, like most of Christianity, that is likely to be the main influence into how to regard those phenomena for anyone born in a Western society, even if it's only through the impact of movies.

The mechanism of those possession-like experiences is not know, of course, so it could be fully neurological. However I think it's unlikely that participants in e.g. Umbanda rituals suddenly grow new neuronal connections forming a new personality in a few seconds.

We do know that "personality" is not a fixed thing, and that it can be often seen to be composed of many parts, some of which may not be well integrated, as it often happens in trauma. I think it's likely that your friend was just becoming aware of a side of himself (maybe a "shadow" in Jungian terms) that he hadn't been fully aware of, and wasn't well integrated. And so his reaction was to act out said side. If we add to it that his cultural background about "possession", then it makes a lot of sense that he would behave that way. This is one possibility.

Another possibility is that he was on the edge of psychosis (which is not well understood and could very well be in many cases the consequence of a poorly integrated personality). Psychosis often features the feeling that one's thoughts are being controlled from the outside, etc., and psychedelics can trigger psychosis in people who are vulnerable to it. This case doesn't sound like full-blown psychosis, but it could have been a state close to it.

As for the experience of terrifying environments of beings under the influence of psychedelics, I encourage you to focus more in how it felt emotionally and somatically than in any of its specific images and forms, as the latter very often seem to be cultural or environmental influences, as @Transform points out. I see those as a mask or sometimes a symbol of something else. From my perspective, these "dark spaces" are actually inside you, and the best way to realize that and connect with them bypassing the feeling of it being something external is to pay attention to the emotions and bodily feelings associated to them. IME these frightening experiences seem to be a "call for attention" from some aspect of you that has been ignored or neglected. Paying attention to it and avoiding the temptation to try to escape it very often makes them change into something much less fearsome, and lets emotions other than fear arise.

All the above is a mix of speculation and personal experience, this ultimately depends a lot on your perspective of reality. I encourage you to give a chance to the hypothesis that said experience was psychological and not corresponding to something outside you, and investigate the hypothesis. People who get fixated in explaining their negative experiences as corresponding to external evil entities and places tend to get more and more scared, dissociated, and detached from reality. So regardless of the reality of that explanation, the practical results of that framing don't seem to be too good.

This was a deep and challenging set of experiences for you. I commend your willingness to face it and seek an understanding of what happened, rather than forget and bury it. This is a tricky subject, because it can be dealt with from the more rational, structural perspective that Transform is suggesting - which is indeed extremely helpful and important to do - or you can treat it with full ontological openness and assume those beings were truly outside of you, and truly did inflict damage upon you and your friend as external “enemies”. At the end of the day, I’d say it’s a little of both, and that leaving out one perspective in favor of the other isn’t helpful. But then again, it’s not entirely satisfying to say what I’ve just said - that “it’s both”. That loop can go on forever.

I think it’s important to remember a couple of things:

1. That the experiences you’ve described have happened to many, many, MANY people all over the world all throughout history. And they always will. And psychedelic drugs are by no means required to experience such things. If you haven’t already, it might be helpful to check out the work of authors like Jeffery Kripal, Joshua Cutchin and Jacques Valle. They deal with anomalous experiences in a way that keeps the discussion open to the subjective nature of what’s been experienced, while staying reserved about anything teetering into woo. None of them claim to have any answers, but their work might help to provide some grounding for you, while providing some food for thought. I’ll repeat that you are not alone in what you’ve gone through. I’ve even had some of my own.

2. Similar to what Transform said, don’t forget that psychedelics do open you up to pretty much anything and everything. And they do it in a very rapid, sudden manner. DMT especially. When unexpectedly hit full-force by something like this, it can be legitimately traumatizing. Take things slow and never forget the simple power of attending to the daily essentials of life.

I know that you’re going to make sense of these things with time. Remember that there’s always a little more mystery around every corner. Keep building strength and keep up on good habits. You’ll be okay!

Thank you so much. What you described really resonates with me. I don’t believe in religion, voodoo, possession, or the idea of absolute evil and absolute good. I feel that looking at it from different perspectives gives me more awareness than trying to find one “100% true” explanation. I don’t feel the need to define it completely or lock it into one belief system.

What I really want is to understand how to respond if I ever experience this again. I don’t want to run away from it, but I also don’t want to feel powerless or defenseless. I believe there is another way — without fear or aggression.

And honestly, I can already see how connected this is to the work I’m doing with my psychologist about boundaries and assertiveness. I was abandoned by my parents, so now I’m learning how to become my own parent — how to protect my inner child without using aggression or living in fear.

Over the last year, I’ve learned how to do this in real life, and it has completely changed my life (I’m 32 now). What I still don’t know is how to transfer those same skills into “the other world” or altered states of consciousness. But I can feel that this integration process is still happening… and honestly, it’s amazing .

 

[blig-blug]

Over the last year, I’ve learned how to do this in real life, and it has completely changed my life (I’m 32 now). What I still don’t know is how to transfer those same skills into “the other world” or altered states of consciousness. But I can feel that this integration process is still happening… and honestly, it’s amazing .

This is likely to be harder to do during a (smoked) DMT experience than with other psychedelics, due to how abrupt, fast, and disconcerting it tends to be. If you're interested in returning to psychedelics while trying to apply these lessons you have learned, it could be a good idea to work with medium/low doses of pharmahuasca or mushrooms. The experience appears much more gradually on those and happens more slowly, giving you time to reflect and react. And, except on the higher range of doses, you aren't fully disconnected from the "normal world". In fact, you usually can manage the degree of connection by focusing more inwards or outwards.

 

[Jamie01]

Did you and your friend both experience these beings? Or was it just your trip that you were both in? I’m just trying to understand if you actually shared a trip with someone or you were both just tripping?